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I'm DONE with B&H!

  • Thread starter Thread starter Lee Rothman
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Sorry to hear of your problems. I kinda go by "burn me once, its your fault; burn me twice its my fault" I'd say you would save a lot of stress not ordering from them.

I have been lucky with B&H. I have bought newUS and new grey and used lenses from them and filters and used filters and all were in perfect condition and arrived fast considering where I live.-- http://www.pbase.com/galleries/sasc
 
Lee Rothman said:
Guess what! The last 2 times I DID specifically request that the
products they send me be in "Unopened" boxes. You can see where it
got me. The previous shippment came with a product whose box was
torn in no less than 6 pieces and taped back together for shipment.
A REAL disgrace if you ask me......If I were in business a box like
that would NEVER make it through shipping. Man their standards must
be unbelievably low....
Click to expand...
This sounds to me like it may be the carriers fault or possibly it goes through a post office that is opening suspect packages to check for terrorist stuff. I have had plenty of things come with packages damaged by the carrier and I know of people having had packages opened by security.-- http://www.pbase.com/galleries/sasc
 
Larry H. Smith said:
Larry H. Smith said:
B&H's website, on the front page, has two specials - one for brand
new merchandise, one for open box.
Click to expand...
Does this suggest that the same merchandise ("open box")is sold to
you in-the-store AT A DISCOUNT, ...but is sold to you via
mail-order as "new", AT FULL PRICE?
Click to expand...
Well, the open box specials are just that, specials, and they are discounted, even on the webpage, but the discounts don't seem to be that deep, and the selection isn't great.

And whatever used/opened merchandise that isn't sold through that link gets sent to Lee as new items. :)--jason: http://www.jcwphoto.net
 
Lee Rothman said:
Delta WILL beat B&H every time if you ASK! It is a matter of
principle. Heck even Adorama will beat them if you ASK.....is that
too hard? At least you will get unopened merchandise.......is that
too much to ask?
Click to expand...
Delta is cheaper, yes. Delta has awesome customer service, yes (I've experienced it firsthand). Delta does not have anywhere near the inventory that B&H and Adorama have, but that's because Delta isn't trying to be a photography megastore. They have their niche and they're good at it.

Adorama is like B&H in terms of inventory and pricing (Adorama and B&H prices are usually within a few dollars of each other, with some minor exceptions). However, Adorama's ordering system is terrible - no up-to-date inventory information, so you're never quite sure whether the items you ordered will come in a week or in a month. Other than that, there's really no difference between the two stores (as far as I'm concerned).--jason: http://www.jcwphoto.net
 
Without delving into the specifics of each item in each entry in this now overlong thread let me say that Lee & I have spoken by phone (at his initiation) and during our phone conversation seemed far more reasonable and amenable to dialogue than one might think from some of the individual posts within this thread.

Henry Posner
B&H Photo-Video, Inc.

--Henry PosnerB&H Photo-Video, Inc.
 
Although I am sure there are a few folks here that have gotten heated by my rant this time, I will say that indeed my conversation with Mr. Posner was a productive one. Professional and concise to say the least. He understands my point of view (while not necessarily agreeing with it) and I understand that they (B&H) and their staff in no way have ever intended to sent merchandise that was in the condition I have consistently described has been sent my way. He feels that indeed I am the exception to the rule, I too believe that surely that MUST be the case. Having spent my share of years in the Retail end of things with companies that did have return policies in force, not unlike B&H's, we somewhat disagreed how often such issues should arise. I can no longer say that I will not do business with them as Mr. Posner has mentioned that in the future should I need something and would like to order from them, to contact him directly and he will personally see to it that either the merchandise going out will be product that has come directly fromt he manufacturer and not via the sales floor or otherwise been previously returned for any reason. This is indeed reasonable and I have no reason to doubt Mr. Posner's word. He further assures me of the amazingly small number of slipups that occur like this, and again since so many here seem to have a 100% success rating with them, I have no doubt I've just been on a very unlucky roll. So with this response I hope this thread can now die a swift and complete DEATH.

Thank you to all who were understanding of my plight and to those that weren't I hope you all have a more calm day so that maybe we can all be more understanding of the experiences of others and get back to learning our craft.
Henry Posner/B&H Photo said:
Without delving into the specifics of each item in each entry in
this now overlong thread let me say that Lee & I have spoken by
phone (at his initiation) and during our phone conversation seemed
far more reasonable and amenable to dialogue than one might think
from some of the individual posts within this thread.

Henry Posner
B&H Photo-Video, Inc.

--
Henry Posner
B&H Photo-Video, Inc.
Click to expand...
 
Lee Rothman said:
Oh yes dear Lord of the forum universe. You're word is indeed the
last word.
Click to expand...
Mr. Rothman-

(apparently I'll have to keep posting forever in order for "my word" to be "the last word".

A quick check of your profile shows that in the last 5 DAYS, you have posted 95 MESSAGES!! And you state that you don't spend an inordinate amount of time at the computer!! Apparently you answer e-mails for a living, otherwise you would probably be "between jobs" right now, eh?
Member said:
Frankly if you were to take a poll I rather doubt that
the majority of those that have visited this forum over the last
year while I have been here would feel quite the way you do...about
me or your beloved B&H.
Click to expand...
Look, Mr. Rothman, B&H is probably the largest camera store (possibly in terms of sales, DEFINITELY in terms of inventory) in the USA, who knows, maybe even the world. Would you dispute that? The "My beloved B&H" monniker can be applied to literally hundreds of thousands of satisified people.
Member said:
Also to set the record straight, the thread
that started about B&H last December if I recall....was indeed NOT
my post. I was mearly a respondant as were many others.
Click to expand...
That may well be the case, but it appears that you managed to infect a lot of people with your negative Karma, nevertheless. Maybe you should go and re-read a few of the others who responded to my initial post today indicating that I, for one, was tired of your complaining. It appears that they, too would prefer that you become a bit more scarce around here.
Member said:
You seem to
have placed yourself some kind of judge and jury about this matter.
Click to expand...
Why ever would you say that, Mr. Rothman? Like yourself, I am only voicing my opinion (and echoing the sentiments of others, it seems).
Member said:
And as for my not being around to answer for myself, I am rarely
away for more than half a day. Sorry I don't sit by the computer
all night long waiting to answer each and every post you lay out
there for me.
Click to expand...
Yea, right... 95 posts in 5 days!
Member said:
Talk about needing to get a life. For that matter, I
will be on the phone discussing this matter with B&H's supervisor
today. I'll let you all know how much more courteously they treat
me.(yeah you got hopes).
Click to expand...
You know, Mr. Rothman, it really isn't necessary for you to go to the trouble of keeping us all informed of your plights. I would hope that it would start becoming clear to you that many of us really don't care.

Good luck with your trials and tribulations. I only hope (for your sake) that the supervisor who you speak to at B&H doesn't frequent this newsgroup. Otherwise, it may be business as usual for you the next time that you order from them- (which I have no doubt you will do).

"Those who do not profit from their mistakes are destined to repeat them". (Actually, I haven't the faintest idea who said that- but it feels somehow fitting :-)

BTW, I really don't know why you are getting so defensive- you told us all in your original post to flame away!

Hasta la vista-

Gary Shepard
Foreside PhotoGraphics
Maine, USA
 
TimBuk2 said:
Lee,

I agree with you 100%. I too am very fussy about getting new
purchases in a sealed/unopened box. I'm getting ready to buy a
Canon digital camera (D30, D60?, or G2). I was considering buying
from B&H. Do you have any other suggestions? It's also a little
tricky buying Canon stuff because they don't seal their camera
Click to expand...
Im one who has had no trouble with BH. I dont doubt from all I hear and their ratings that Delta is a good place although i have no personal experience from them. I have bought two cameras from BestPriceAudioVideo.com. They have better prices than the above usually and I can say that they have the best salesmen and customer service of anywhere I have ever dealt with. They also have excellent ratings.-- http://www.pbase.com/galleries/sasc
 
Lee Rothman said:
Although I am sure there are a few folks here that have gotten
heated by my rant this time, I will say that indeed my conversation
with Mr. Posner was a productive one. Professional and concise to
say the least. He understands my point of view (while not
necessarily agreeing with it) and I understand that they (B&H) and
their staff in no way have ever intended to sent merchandise that
was in the condition I have consistently described has been sent my
way. He feels that indeed I am the exception to the rule, I too
believe that surely that MUST be the case. Having spent my share of
years in the Retail end of things with companies that did have
return policies in force, not unlike B&H's, we somewhat disagreed
how often such issues should arise. I can no longer say that I will
not do business with them as Mr. Posner has mentioned that in the
future should I need something and would like to order from them,
to contact him directly and he will personally see to it that
either the merchandise going out will be product that has come
directly fromt he manufacturer and not via the sales floor or
otherwise been previously returned for any reason.........
Click to expand...
 
OK,

I promise to let my little contribution to all this useless diatribe drop, under one condition- that when Delta International sends you a lens that's scuffed, or the box has been taped (it happens with them too, Lee), you won't once again come Pi* ing and moaning to the entire group and start yet another one of these enormously tedious threads.

Is it a deal?

Gary Shepard
Foreside PhotoGraphics
Maine, USA
Lee Rothman said:
Henry Posner/B&H Photo said:
Without delving into the specifics of each item in each entry in
this now overlong thread let me say that Lee & I have spoken by
phone (at his initiation) and during our phone conversation seemed
far more reasonable and amenable to dialogue than one might think
from some of the individual posts within this thread.

Henry Posner
B&H Photo-Video, Inc.

--
Henry Posner
B&H Photo-Video, Inc.
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
 
Guaranteed! No Problemo.......
gary shepard said:
Is it a deal?

Gary Shepard
Foreside PhotoGraphics
Maine, USA
Lee Rothman said:
Henry Posner/B&H Photo said:
Without delving into the specifics of each item in each entry in
this now overlong thread let me say that Lee & I have spoken by
phone (at his initiation) and during our phone conversation seemed
far more reasonable and amenable to dialogue than one might think
from some of the individual posts within this thread.

Henry Posner
B&H Photo-Video, Inc.

--
Henry Posner
B&H Photo-Video, Inc.
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
 
Unless it's a nickel-dime item, I always call and always ask for their lowest price. If the quote I get isn't good enough to beat prices I've seen elsewhere, I tell them so. Often, they will match or beat the other price. YMMV.

Mike
Lee Rothman said:
allanofcalifornia said:
I have been looking at places to buy eqipment and accessories and
so far B&H seems to have the best prices but you stated that they
are relatively high. I have been checking Delta, Canoga, Adorama,
etc. Could you please let me know what stores sell them cheaper.
Also, I am very curious as to what local stores sell them at the
same price as B&H since they might accept over the phone orders.

Thanks
Allan
Mike Flaherty said:
Also, I never felt B&H was bargain priced on anything. On the
contrary. I find their prices to be relatively high. I've only
made the few purchases with them that I have because I couldn't
find the item anyplace else. Typically, I find their prices to be
just a bit less overall than my local brick & mortar photographic
supply store.
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
--Mike Flaherty http://imageevent.com/mflaherty/mikesgallery
 
Hi, Allan. I live in the Detroit, MI area and the closest photography supply store to me is called Adray's. They don't do mailorder. I am certain of that. Also, they don't sell gray market equipment. Generally, their prices are 5-10% higher than internet prices - which is great for a brick & mortar outlet. I buy lots of low-cost items from them and save the big-ticket items for internet purchases. I've spent most of my photography $$$ at Delta International. I can't say enough good things about that outfit.

Mike
allanofcalifornia said:
I have been looking at places to buy eqipment and accessories and
so far B&H seems to have the best prices but you stated that they
are relatively high. I have been checking Delta, Canoga, Adorama,
etc. Could you please let me know what stores sell them cheaper.
Also, I am very curious as to what local stores sell them at the
same price as B&H since they might accept over the phone orders.

Thanks
Allan
Mike Flaherty said:
Also, I never felt B&H was bargain priced on anything. On the
contrary. I find their prices to be relatively high. I've only
made the few purchases with them that I have because I couldn't
find the item anyplace else. Typically, I find their prices to be
just a bit less overall than my local brick & mortar photographic
supply store.
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
--Mike Flaherty http://imageevent.com/mflaherty/mikesgallery
 
Lee I sympathize too. I purchased a Canon D30 from B&H. It appeared clean, however I was naive to what a unopened D30 looked like. It came with what at first appeared to be a Warranty card. However I examined things a little closer:

1) It was a Warranty extension card, not the actual warranty card
(remember I don't know what a real one looks like at this stage).
This appeared to be a decoy for the missing warranty card, and when
I rang support they even appeared to be aware that they shipped this
card and said it would work for getting the Microdrive offer and warranty
support. Still suspicious, I read this Warranty extension card in detail, and
the Microdrive offer, then concluded neither would be usable without
the real warranty card (with the D30's serial number stamped on it).
I'd like to note that it would have been some time (based on the
delays people experienced from Canon in getting their Microdrive) in
discovering that this warranty extension card was useless, and according
to their return policy, it would have been too late! Quite a sneaky trick
on B&H's part. I'd also like to note that I did not order this Warranty
extension card, and it was not some "Special offer" either.
2) I began to suspect other things so I closely examined the camera
body. First thing I noticed was the date was SET. I later verified that
a new D30 has the date set to all zero's.
3) What really annoyed me was that I noticed dust through the viewfinder,
so examined the reflex mirror. That's when I noticed that
someone had actually tried to wipe the mirror clean because when
viewed it at a sharp angle I could actually see fine wipe scratches. It was
subtle, but the last straw.

At least they accepted the return with a full refund, and to my relief, no restocking fee. However I was out the shipping costs both ways. They offered to replace, but how could I trust them with that amount of my money again, so I also went elsewhere. I will note that this is the only

order of many that I experienced this, but it was my most expensive so it had a great affect on my opinion of them.

After sending it back, and purchasing one from CameraWorld, I finally saw a real unopened box and realized many other signs of being given used equipment. The software was not sealed in plastic, some of the packaging material was different.

I only purchase small things from them now that I can't find elsewhere. I just can't trust B&H with big ticket items.

I went into details so others never experience this. It is hell trying to trust your instincts about these things when they say otherwise. Hopefully you

now know a few extra things to look for in an product to determine that it is new, rather than used/abused returns!
Lee Rothman said:
Gerard Solan said:
New to this forum, I wanted to add my two cents regarding being
sold opened box items by B&H. I purchased a metz flash from them
this past summer and it was obvious that this item was already in
some other customers hands (damaged box and packaging material). I
sent it back and the replacement was also not factory fresh. On my
third attempt, I think I finally got one that wasn't opened.
I do not appreciate spending the kind of money that pro photo
equipment costs and getting something other than factory fresh. I
don't care if the box was only opened to look inside... just like
when the car leaves the showroom, it's used equipment in my
opinion. I'm going to think about all of this long and hard before
I dish out 5k for a new d1.
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
 
It's great that you got things straightened out BUT the fact still remains that their sales staff has the attitude that they are doing you a favor when you buy something from them. I don't get that from other places and those places will get the money that I work for.

I'm from the northeast and I know that many don't understand that the customer is right and not the sales staff. I've learned a better way down here in the southeast. It's "what can I do for you sir", followed by "no problem, I'll take care of that for you." It wasn't easy to learn after growing up in the northeast but it works a whole lot better. If I treat my customers like that then I also expect to be treated like that and you should not have to go to a manager to get that treatment.

In short, there are many companies that would be happy to sell you something and I'll only deal with B&H if I have too from now on.
 
DavidP said:
You consider a car that's been test-driven "used" ?
Click to expand...
My D30 was used, although I paid new price for it. Before it left Canon's warehouse, some men who call themselves QC used my camera for some test shots. Actually, before the sensor was installed in the camera, right after it had come off of the assembly line, someone had tested it and fired up some of the diodes, so it wasn't a virgin sensor anymore.

You know, it's one thing to demand new equipment when you pay for it. But there has to be a line drawn somewhere to distinguish between voices of reason and voices of hysteria/obsession. Sometimes it's very obvious that the line has been crossed. :)--jason: http://www.jcwphoto.net
 
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