critical hats on please for new B&W gallery

liza wallis · Feb 10, 2002

libtib said:
Your shots are super, full of mood and atmosphere. I actually like
photos which can convey a sense of brooding or aprehension (as
mentioned above). Not all photos should be happy, pretty pictures.
To me, photography is not just about capturing moments in time. It
is also about being "artistic" and creative, which you have surely
done.

Liz... I am a big fan of brooding photography. I was hoping to achieve some of that with these B&Ws, but I know I missed the mark on quite a few. The experimentation on what method to use to convert is really interesting I think and different methods do give decidedly different results and moods. And then some photos just are not at all suited to B&W. By the way, seeing your gallery last week was the inspiration I needed to put together my B&W gallery. I thought your photos were simply fantastic

libtib said:
On a separate point, one thing I did note, however, was that you
were using Photoshop album creator. I started down this route with
my web site and found that even though I had already re-sized and
compressed for web using the save for web option (Imageready), when
Photoshop came to create the album (and I ticked the ooption for no
compression/resize, some of my images had actually increased in
size and the quality had gone down considerably.

I had the same sort of problems at first when I tried their web feature, but now I have it down to a science and I get exactly what I want out of it. I input the files as PSDs and then output with custom settings and I get the same thing i would get if I were hand optimizing and saving the files individually. I am not sure what you did, but try it this way... it really works well with the custom settings and it saves BOATLOADS of time to have Photoshop doing the dirty work.

libtib said:
I scrapped the
album apart from keeping the thumbnails it had created, and went
and did my own thing using the save for web option. Mind you, it
took me the three evenings of work to get my web site up!! Maybe I
have too much time on my hands but I ust thought I'd pass on this
observation.

Thank you for sharing the photgraphs. Must get back out there with
the camera. Once again you've inspired me.

Well then, we're even... the inspiration is mutual

Best regards...
liza--www.lizawallis.comwww.lizawallis.com/photography

libtib · Feb 10, 2002

sorry but snipped for brevity

liza wallis said:
I had the same sort of problems at first when I tried their web
feature, but now I have it down to a science and I get exactly what
I want out of it. I input the files as PSDs and then output with
custom settings and I get the same thing i would get if I were hand
optimizing and saving the files individually. I am not sure what
you did, but try it this way... it really works well with the
custom settings and it saves BOATLOADS of time to have Photoshop
doing the dirty work.

I was shown a very good trick to squeeze the best out of images for the web, reducing size but keeping surprising quality. I don't know how or why it seems to work and the person who told me his trick hasn't workied it out either.

Anyway, what I do is the inital crop, resize etc etc and then choose the save for web option. You then do some crazy things with settings as follows. If you have your image as a jpeg the next thing you do is change settings to PNG 8 -128 Dithered, let it re-sample, then chose PNG 24, let it re-sample and then choose JPEG high and play about with slider to choose the quality you want.

As I say, I have now idea why, but my friend does professional web sites and came up with this method of optimising for web. Seems to work too!

Best wishes
Liz--www.libtib.org.uk6900 UK

liza wallis · Feb 10, 2002

Duncan Burt said:
The two pictures fenced field and horse farm are great compositions
and have great detail. Looks for all the world like Yorkshire or
the English lake District (where my folks live) Are these in New
ENGLAND by any chance?

Well... If you consider New York an honorary part of New England than I guess you could say this is New England. I like this farm because of its NE feel. It looks like a little slice of Vermont here in the middle of NY

Duncan Burt said:
The three dogs, triplets is again great composition, but was this
really posed or a manipulation in post processing. I guess these
are your dogs. If so you must have quite a menagerie.

ha ha... the front dog is mine... the other two are her playmates. I suppose the photo was posed in that we told the dogs to sit and they did so (amazingly enough) and they stay like that for a few minutes. It was a rare moment of doggy obedience that we rarely get to see. I shot this one with the B300 telephoto lens as I was a fair distance away.

Duncan Burt said:
Farmretouch_bw has nothing that really grabs my eye. There is not
enough contrast here to do anything for the picture. Lighthouse was
similar in this respect.

Lighthouse was a problem photo from the get go... I shot with the wrong white balance setting and had nothing but blue shots. I was trying to save it with B&W and I agree with you that I didn't succeed. Farm retouch was actually a series of different filters that I put on to try to enhance the trees. I am torn about whether I like it or not. Depends on the day and my mood!

Duncan Burt said:
Lighthouse and playland baths were pictures I though maybe would be
better in colour. Tree was another one that got me thinking about
the use of B&W versus colour. In tree, I loved the detail and the
composition, but would really like to see the original colour image
next the B&W one. That way I could decided which had the greater
impact.

Interesting, I was going to try to do click throughs that would enable you to click from the B&W to the color version but my FTP server was acting up terribly yesterday so it was all I could do just to get these posted.

Duncan Burt said:
Fence crossing and fence shadow both have lots of contrast and
brilliant composition, together making a picture with lots of
interest and detail. The shadows really add to the impact of the
picture.

I am a shadow fiend. I would love to have a gallery of just interesting shadows... that's why I am so disappointed that I have this great camera and NY can't generate any snow this winter. Snow shadows are the absolute best.

Duncan Burt said:
Field, two trees2 are really wonderful moody photos. In two trees2
and field the sky is fantastic. Did you do any further post
processing to get these real moody skies or is that how the sky
really looked?

The sky was actually very impressive that day... that's what inspired me to turn this one to BW

Duncan Burt said:
The contrast again for me plays a really big role in
the overall makeup of these pictures. These are excellent examples
of pictures that really do look better in B&W. Also stevie shore is
another really moody shot, but in this picture the ripples and
reflections on the water make the photo really interesting. Also
the dog in silhouette is striking. Again, though, I would like to
see this one in colour.

This one was shot at sunset so there was hardly any color or detail to begin with. This was another case of my converting to BW in an attempt to save a bad photo.

Duncan Burt said:
Finally, the two that had the greatest impact on me were frosted
farm, the overall composition and the addition of the birds looks
wonderful, really artistic. This would make a really striking wall
hanging with the right décor.

Hey... thank you... what a wonderful compliment... This one was comprised of a number of filters and changes to get that weird look. The birds of course were imported from another photo (a beach scene actually)

Duncan Burt said:
My favourite is probably picnic. Here the whole composition of the
weeping willow, the upturned tables and the reflections in the
water really “paint” a wonderful picture. Note the use
of the word “picture” not “photo”. In this
case, the lack of contrast and less sharp focus really work well to
create, in my view anyway the best picture of them all.

Whoa... thank you.

Duncan Burt said:
Although I really did look at every image, the rest did not really
do anything that either made me think yeah, great or nah,
don’t like that.

I really really appreciate your taking the time to look at them all and give such thorough feedback.

Duncan Burt said:
So there you go. Great work Liza, you are really an inspiration to
us all. Please keep up the good work and keep sharing your pictures
with us. At least you are add a bit of seriousness to the forum to
complement my silly cat pictures.

no no no... can't have it too serious. I come to this forum for all the great laughs and personalities and quirky cats and dogs and people. This is one of my best destressing places. What would I do without Eli or duck or Bailey or socks or Red or the legions of other four leggeds that find their mugs plastered on these pages.

Thanks Duncan
liza--www.lizawallis.comwww.lizawallis.com/photography

Mark (nl) · Feb 10, 2002

©azil said:
You better be careful what weirdos you hang out with online... next
thing you know they may well show up in your living room and just
have their way with the place... not to mention what they could do
to those 10 cats you have

LOL!

liza wallis said:
I can't believe duck is that old... She looks great by the way.

shhhhhht, not so loud, like Duncan's Eli, Duck also finds all this internet attention very interesting en reads along with me. We made a previous deal though that 17 is not old, I often tell her she just a teenager

Good night, it's been a wonderful weekend here (and there) once again,
sure brightens up these dark wet winter days!
M.-- http://community.webshots.com/user/marksfinepix

Duncan Burt · Feb 10, 2002

©azil said:
Well... If you consider New York an honorary part of New England
than I guess you could say this is New England. I like this farm
because of its NE feel. It looks like a little slice of Vermont
here in the middle of NY

Is that New York City or New York State? If my american Geography is right NY State borders CT, MA and VT but I guess is not technically New England

liza wallis said:
Interesting, I was going to try to do click throughs that would
enable you to click from the B&W to the color version but my FTP
server was acting up terribly yesterday so it was all I could do
just to get these posted.

That would be good

liza wallis said:
no no no... can't have it too serious. I come to this forum for
all the great laughs and personalities and quirky cats and dogs and
people. This is one of my best destressing places. What would I
do without Eli or duck or Bailey or socks or Red or the legions of
other four leggeds that find their mugs plastered on these pages.

Oh OK I'll keep posting the pics of Eli

Check your email, I have left a message about cats - too off topic for this forum, hope you don't mind--Duncan Birmingham, England

liza wallis · Feb 10, 2002

vulturesong said:
First up - some really good shots here. Several have that inate
'rightness' which take you past what are simply OK pictures. I
agree with other posters that BW thrives on contrast and texture.
Fence Crossing and Fence shadow show these characteristics to best
advantage. BW or colour, your composition skills make these two
work best for me. Fence Shadow edges it simply because of the snow.
Bridge BW is third, fore/mid/background give a real depth to this
shot. IR doesn't do anything for me, the trickery is too upfront to
allow a balanced judgement on the picture. Finally, I like BW with
Statue. I saw the work you did earlier on that, but BW pulls the
rubble reflection into shot better. The flag, although technically
well achieved, makes the symbolism heavy handed. I'd take it out,
and tip the viewer with a suitable title. BW is a favourite medium
for me - I remember my Dad developing Ilford films in our cellar
when I was a kid. I like the graininesss associated with c.1965
photos. Your work is evocative of that time. Thanks for giving us
such enjoyable work to undertake!

Hi Kev...

Thank you so much for taking the time to comment and look. I completely agree with you on the flag/statue photo and I probably should upload the one without the colored flag as it seems rather unanimous that it is too heavy handed.

You know, I always loved BW film photography but I never shot in it, and I never developed my own film. I feel as though I really missed out on the classical aspects of photography and always think I should take classic film photography classes. Then I think that I probably will never shoot in film again so I abandon that idea. Still, it nags at me.

Thank you again...
liza

vulturesong said:
--
Kev G

--www.lizawallis.comwww.lizawallis.com/photography

liza wallis · Feb 10, 2002

4900'r Mark said:
©azil said:

You better be careful what weirdos you hang out with online... next
thing you know they may well show up in your living room and just
have their way with the place... not to mention what they could do
to those 10 cats you have

Click to expand...

LOL!

Mark (nl) said:

I can't believe duck is that old... She looks great by the way.

Click to expand...

shhhhhht, not so loud, like Duncan's Eli, Duck also finds all this
internet attention very interesting en reads along with me. We made
a previous deal though that 17 is not old, I often tell her she
just a teenager

Good night, it's been a wonderful weekend here (and there) once again,
sure brightens up these dark wet winter days!

HUGE DOPEY GRIN ON MY FACE....

Good night Mark...
liza

Mark (nl) said:
M.
--
http://community.webshots.com/user/marksfinepix

--www.lizawallis.comwww.lizawallis.com/photography

liza wallis · Feb 10, 2002

Earl Bishop said:
My wife and I just finished looking at your pictures....you are
very gifted. My wife is a painter and she wants to pass on you
have good balance and contrast in most of your shots. We would
love to have a few of your shots hanging in our house!!
Sandy's favourite is your fence crossing and mine is horse farm
with many coming in tied for second.

Thanks for sharing.

--
Earl

Whoa... Thank you so much Earl. What a lovely post to read... you made my day, and your wife did too. I would be honored to have any of my shots hanging in your house. Just say the word and I'll send them on over.

Really really much appreciated.

Thank you
liza
--www.lizawallis.comwww.lizawallis.com/photography

liza wallis · Feb 10, 2002

RJNedimyer said:
All of the rumors and reports of the demise of B&W have ceased for
after seeing these I can state B&W is alive and well and has peaked
my interest [again].

Don't you just love B&W photography... there is something about it... maybe because the detail spring to life in such a different way. I just really love it.

RJNedimyer said:
IMHO the best is the one you posted here 10 on 10 scale. The only
one I did not rate as high as all of the others is "Frosted"
[probably too many years in the dark with 4X5 negatives]. The
remainder get a 8.5 to 9.5 on same scale! Glad I don't have to
compete with you.

Ray, what can I say... I am really touched that you liked these so much and rate them so highly. I am really just experimenting and trying to find my B&W "eye." Coming here to this forum for the last 6 months has been such a help. I have gotten so much from everyone here.

RJNedimyer said:
Now I'll read the rest of the comments (I try to do it this way so
my opinion is not influenced by others).

I love that you do it this way. I have heard you say this to other folks and I think it makes so much sense.

Thank you, thank you, thank you... you made my day with your comments.

regards...
liza

RJNedimyer said:
--
Ray
RJNedimyer

--www.lizawallis.comwww.lizawallis.com/photography

liza wallis · Feb 10, 2002

robert said:
wonderful!

Thank you.

robert41723 said:
what do you use to 'frame' the pics?

I created a framing action in photoshop. I may have the action available on my website for download. If I don't have that one then I can always mail it to you if you want it.

regards...
liza

robert41723 said:
r
--
robert
Native Eye Photography
mitakuye oyasin
('we are all related'. Lakota language)
http://www.pbase.com/nativeeye

--www.lizawallis.comwww.lizawallis.com/photography

liza wallis · Feb 10, 2002

libtib said:
I was shown a very good trick to squeeze the best out of images for
the web, reducing size but keeping surprising quality. I don't
know how or why it seems to work and the person who told me his
trick hasn't workied it out either.
Anyway, what I do is the inital crop, resize etc etc and then
choose the save for web option. You then do some crazy things with
settings as follows. If you have your image as a jpeg the next
thing you do is change settings to PNG 8 -128 Dithered, let it
re-sample, then chose PNG 24, let it re-sample and then choose JPEG
high and play about with slider to choose the quality you want.
As I say, I have now idea why, but my friend does professional web
sites and came up with this method of optimising for web. Seems to
work too!

Thanks liz... this is a GREAT tip... I'll have to try it. We have to show it to IanR also as he has been asking about PNG format.

much appreciated
liza

libtib said:
Best wishes
Liz
--
http://www.libtib.org.uk
6900 UK

--www.lizawallis.comwww.lizawallis.com/photography

liza wallis · Feb 10, 2002

Todd Medley said:
Hi Liza,

The fence shot is great. However, when I go to visit you're B/W
gallery, I get 404's on all of the other pictures. Will try again a
bit later.

I read what David said to you about this being a Mac and PC incompatibility problem. I just don't get it, but that would make sense. I had a heck of a time getting the FTP to work properly when I uploaded these so maybe that is the problem with the s and \s going in the wrong direction?

Thanks for trying anyway...

liza--www.lizawallis.comwww.lizawallis.com/photography

liza wallis · Feb 10, 2002

David Dodd said:
Todd, I had the same problem, and when I remembered you are a Mac
user I began to wonder.
The problem is in the url Liza used for her pictures - at least I
guess that's what happened. The linked pictures have the slash
backwards, hence " " is "\". The browsers on Windows must be made
to handle it either way, but my two Mac browsers don't like it.
Just load the url for each picture and manually change the slash
and you'll be fine. Maybe Liza can change them when she gets a
chance.

David

It's funny david, but all my slashes are heading in this direction / there are none that are \ this way. My PC would not read a slash like \. I am not sure what is happening. As I told Todd, my FTP was really screwy yesterday and I am wondering if that is the culprit?

Take care...
liza
--www.lizawallis.comwww.lizawallis.com/photography

DogOfThunder · Feb 10, 2002

Personally, I love statue. I think the symbolism is very appropriate, and is very "hot" right now. I'd like to see you submit that for a POTD if you're into that. I think it would stand a good chance.

After statue, I like horse farm, then fence shadow. I think it is really hard to get a truly good b/w shot. Since you don't have color to make the shot speak out, you really have to have a strong subject or a little something extra to make it stand out. I think contrast is very important in a b/w shot, IMHO.

Overall, I really like what you have on display. It makes me want to get out and find an old farm and shoot away.

©azil said:
I have just uploaded a new gallery of Black and White photos. If a
few of these look familiar it's because I have posted them here
before. Most of them are new.

I was hoping to get some solid constructive criticism of these. I
realize there are a lot of photos here and I don't expect you to
look at every one. But of those that you do look at it would
really help me if you could give specific feedback.

As for methods used... One of the photos was shot with a hoya
infrared filter. All the others were shot in color and then
converted in photoshop in the post processing. I heavily relied on
the channel mixer and also "glick efx" Infrared photoshop filter.
I did use Fred Miranda's Infrared action on one or two. Some of
them were also converted to duotones if I thought the B&W effect
needed a little extra punch.

Thanks in advance for looking...
the whole gallery can be found at:
http://www.lizawallis.com/BW
liza
and here is one image to get you started:

--
http://www.lizawallis.com
http://www.lizawallis.com/photography

--DogOfThunderNikon 8OO8, Pentax K-1OOO andOlympus C-21OOUZ

dawn75728 · Feb 10, 2002

Hi Liza

Just briefly looked at your photos. B&W--so of course, I like them. I see the black and white of the statue we talked about a month ago. It looks awesome. By the way, I love your first pic, also. Dawn

DogOfThunder said:
After statue, I like horse farm, then fence shadow. I think it is
really hard to get a truly good b/w shot. Since you don't have
color to make the shot speak out, you really have to have a strong
subject or a little something extra to make it stand out. I think
contrast is very important in a b/w shot, IMHO.

Overall, I really like what you have on display. It makes me want
to get out and find an old farm and shoot away.

©azil said:

I have just uploaded a new gallery of Black and White photos. If a
few of these look familiar it's because I have posted them here
before. Most of them are new.

I was hoping to get some solid constructive criticism of these. I
realize there are a lot of photos here and I don't expect you to
look at every one. But of those that you do look at it would
really help me if you could give specific feedback.

As for methods used... One of the photos was shot with a hoya
infrared filter. All the others were shot in color and then
converted in photoshop in the post processing. I heavily relied on
the channel mixer and also "glick efx" Infrared photoshop filter.
I did use Fred Miranda's Infrared action on one or two. Some of
them were also converted to duotones if I thought the B&W effect
needed a little extra punch.

Thanks in advance for looking...
the whole gallery can be found at:
http://www.lizawallis.com/BW
liza
and here is one image to get you started:

--
http://www.lizawallis.com
http://www.lizawallis.com/photography

Click to expand...

--
DogOfThunder
Nikon 8OO8, Pentax K-1OOO and
Olympus C-21OOUZ

--dawn

David Dodd · Feb 10, 2002

I've been able to view your black and white gallery, and really enjoyed it. Thanks - I feel a bit like I should have left a tip at the door!

There are so many that I liked, I hope I can remember the names. Let's see: fence shadow, Stevie (at the lake), Two trees bw, farm retouch and tripletts. Those were the ones that really had me go "wow"! That fence shadow scene is so intriguing with the dark fence and graceful curve to the hill which seems to certainly hide some adventure on the other side. That's a very romantic shot of Stevie. I love the sky in two trees, and those trees make such a strong central element. I've always loved the placement of the 3 large trees in farm retouch - perfect symmetry! And tripletts is just so great with the position of the dogs and the beautiful contrast of black and white.

You're an inspiration!

David

liza wallis · Feb 10, 2002

DogOfThunder said:
Personally, I love statue. I think the symbolism is very
appropriate, and is very "hot" right now. I'd like to see you
submit that for a POTD if you're into that. I think it would stand
a good chance.

Thank you. I have a version of that photo which has the flag in B&W and I may put that one up on the page instead. I think the point about the flag being in color is well taken, don't you?

DogOfThunder said:
After statue, I like horse farm, then fence shadow. I think it is
really hard to get a truly good b/w shot. Since you don't have
color to make the shot speak out, you really have to have a strong
subject or a little something extra to make it stand out. I think
contrast is very important in a b/w shot, IMHO.

I agree... B&W is a good challenge for this reason. I guess that is why I enjoy trying to pull it off and trying to find good methods to accomplish it since I don't think digital cameras do a good job of shooting in B&W.

DogOfThunder said:
Overall, I really like what you have on display. It makes me want
to get out and find an old farm and shoot away.

he he... go to it. I will be particularly interesting in seeing what you come up with since I have an interest in that 2100UZ you shoot with (I know you just bought it recently, but I am wondering how you like it because I am trying to recommend it to a friend of mine who is looking for a digital camera)

Thanks for the comments and hurry and get your web page up...
liza

--www.lizawallis.comwww.lizawallis.com/photography

liza wallis · Feb 10, 2002

dawn said:
Hi Liza
Just briefly looked at your photos. B&W--so of course, I like
them. I see the black and white of the statue we talked about a
month ago. It looks awesome. By the way, I love your first pic,
also. Dawn

Thank you Dawn...

I appreciate the kind remarks.

liza--www.lizawallis.comwww.lizawallis.com/photography

Larry Emnd · Feb 10, 2002

Liza,

NO!, high contrast is not always necessary. We are too used to seeing journalistic style of B&W photos that have "punch" in magazines. Everything in our culture speaks of brashness with glitzy neon sighns etc.etc.

I did not have time to look aat all your photos, but from what I saw and the moods that I think you are trying to convey, I would say that getting nice even greys is every bit as important. Photos with punch are not meant to be subtle; Your photos are! To me, they convey a dreamy, philosophical and nostalgic mood. While browising in a antique book store recently, I came across a book of photos taken in the early 1900's of the grounds around the childhood home of Frederick Chopin. They are wonderful in that they in cepia tone are impressionistic in style and none have anything close to 100% saturation. They make you want to come back to look and just dream. I find this difficult to articulate, but I guess that photos don't always have to make a bold statement, but rather maybe just invite the viewer to take a quiet moment and meditate.

Now for the real critique: As I said, I didn't have time to look al all of them, but I must compliment you for your eye for composition. Very nice. The only dritical comments are on the infra-red. They appear to be very noisy, especially the skies. Perhaps you should have run these through a noise reduction filter program such as Neat Image first. The last image "yearning" could have been composed a little better in that you chopped off the feet of the poor animal. (something I've done many a time myself

). Anyhow, you have given me some inspiration to go back to my photos and see what can be done to some of them in B&W.
Thanks for the pictures.
Larry Emond

©azil said:
Jack G Heckler said:

Liza...
No specific comments on your B&W's, but I was wondering what
is(are) the mood(s) that you are trying to convey? My first
reaction to B&W photos is "the past"...old, nostalgic, but
depending upon the subject my moods can become gloomy,
apprehensive, maybe even a little scared?

Click to expand...

Ha ha... well, I guess I like to use it to convey different
moods... all the ones you listed are fine with me if my photography
can communicate them.

liza wallis said:

Mainly I feel nostalgic and remember old photos of my childhood in
the late 40's, 50's, and 60's? When did color photography become
mainstream? Anyhow, I really liked the photo that you
posted...very good contrast with the fence shadows on the road.
But I would love to see that same scene in the Summer/Fall...in
color!!

Click to expand...

I will try to post that with color some day... I don't expect I
will get the same shadows though in the other seasons... too many
trees to block the sun.

liza wallis said:

Nice work...Jack

Click to expand...

Thank you Jack.

liza

--
http://www.lizawallis.com
http://www.lizawallis.com/photography

--Larry Emond

liza wallis · Feb 10, 2002

David Dodd said:
I've been able to view your black and white gallery, and really
enjoyed it. Thanks - I feel a bit like I should have left a tip at
the door!

Well of course, you should have. But since you didn't, you can always feel free to mail it to me. I will always supply a mailing address when there's cash involved

David Dodd said:
There are so many that I liked, I hope I can remember the names.
Let's see: fence shadow, Stevie (at the lake),

really? You liked that one... you didn't think it was too dark? I am very ambivalent on that one. I want to love it because of course it is a perfect profile of my baby, but I am just not sure I like the rest of it enough

David Dodd said:
Two trees bw, farm
retouch and tripletts. Those were the ones that really had me go
"wow"! That fence shadow scene is so intriguing with the dark
fence and graceful curve to the hill which seems to certainly hide
some adventure on the other side. That's a very romantic shot of
Stevie. I love the sky in two trees, and those trees make such a
strong central element. I've always loved the placement of the 3
large trees in farm retouch - perfect symmetry! And tripletts is
just so great with the position of the dogs and the beautiful
contrast of black and white.

Well David, what can I say... first of all that you overcame such obstacles to view my page... I really appreciate that. And your comments are so complimentary. Thank you very much.

David Dodd said:
You're an inspiration!

Well, this part is quite mutual.
Take care, and thanks again
liza

David Dodd said:
David

--www.lizawallis.comwww.lizawallis.com/photography

critical hats on please for new B&W gallery

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