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K10D afraid of cold :-(

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Reps

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Once again (was before reported from BC Canada with two bodies)...

Only 1 hour at -5°C, have backpacked for 3 days with K10D at -10°C and lower- no problems...



Apparent is that one of the two G channels is missing, R & B channels are OK, G at 1/2 on white surface crop- so sensor readoutof either Gr or Gb channels?

Best and happy shooting and will not test the cam in fridge (as cheese and sausage aint interesting...) but as we expect -32°C here will definitely go out with K10D (and grab my K100D also for reference :-)), JR
 
Hi, JR

Page 3 of the K10D manual states that the operating temperature range is from 0º C to 40º C (32º F to 104º F). So I suggest to keep your camera warm until the very moment of shot.

Albert

PS

Do not considere it an issue, it happens with every electronic device, (even Canon and Nikon!)
--
Do not take life too seriously; you are not going to end it alive.
 
My Canon A40 did that. Really freaked me out, but it returned to normal when it warmed up and has been operating just fine for the past year.

Odd
  • Andrew
 
...put on silk gloves and stay in studio :-)

It is some kind of sensor/contact/construction glitch (so far at least 5 K10D cams with such issue :-( )

If this 0°C-40°C range is absolute demand I am definitely out of dSLR game- in our country (and we are not far-North!) we consider 0°C and lower at least during 6 months a year- and OTOH I must leave to my vacation in Tunesia Aug 2007 without K10D- 40°C plus is common there?

Lucky me, still have my film Pentax gear- and it has survived all that- and so has my camcorder, cellphone, other brand digital photo gear (although I must check Google etc.)...

I am in no way disappointed- just want to know how is it possible? As my K100D has always been with me (and in even colder environment as it regularly stays in the car if attached WA (wide angle) or FE (fish eye) lens is not needed- and always taken the shot. So I guess I must read about experience of Sony Alpha/Nikon D80 users (same CCD I guess?) as K100D shares CCD with Nikon D50/70/40?at least...

Best and a happy Pentax user never the less (BTW although this even not important shot(s) was in JPG I saved it 80% nicely with Bibble Pro :-)
JR
 
I used k10D with grip at -10C (walking around Ottawa for few hours) and no problems.
Take care,
Wojtek
 
Reps said:
I am in no way disappointed- just want to know how is it possible?
As my K100D has always been with me (and in even colder environment
as it regularly stays in the car if attached WA (wide angle) or FE
(fish eye) lens is not needed- and always taken the shot. So I
guess I must read about experience of Sony Alpha/Nikon D80 users
(same CCD I guess?) as K100D shares CCD with Nikon D50/70/40?at
least...
Click to expand...
It could simply be the use of one electrolytic capacitor in a critical circuit location, it doesn't have be anything to do with the sensor, in fact I'd expect that it would only perform better at low temperatures (until the glass or substrate cracked though cold induced stress :-)

--
Rob

 
In another thread I was asking to solve Nimh in extreme cold weather - 5 to -20 deg c. Some great Pentaxians told me that the batt issue is the cam problem. According to them, do not blame the batt. Blame the camera and return to Pentax for repair.
I was laughing and said I had better thing to do

Daniel, Toronto
http://www.pbase.com/danieltong


Albert Aguilar said:
Hi, JR

Page 3 of the K10D manual states that the operating temperature
range is from 0º C to 40º C (32º F to 104º F). So I suggest to keep
your camera warm until the very moment of shot.

Albert

PS
Do not considere it an issue, it happens with every electronic
device, (even Canon and Nikon!)
--
Do not take life too seriously; you are not going to end it alive.
Click to expand...
 
Yeah sensor got frozen. DSLR's are not all-powerful so complying with manufacturer's recommendations is wise. I guess keeping the camera warm in your jacket before shooting will help :).

--
Pentax? Canon? Whatever, just go out and compose some beautiful photos! :)
 
i read some good tips for the cold that made sense the other day, so i'll reiterate them:
  • keep the camera in a bag or outside pocket (harder obviously w/a DSLR) - in your jacket it can get moist when you're generating your own warmth!
  • use those hand heating packets - in your bag where you have the camera, and one in one or both hands while holding the camera to keep it warmer (especially around the battery compartment)
  • if its really cold, put it in a plastic zip lock bag BEFORE returning indoors so the camera can warm to room temp without condensation forming on the camera and lenses.
there may have been some others, but i thought those sounded like good advice!
 
Hi Reps,
Reps said:
Once again (was before reported from BC Canada with two bodies)...
Click to expand...
the two bodies in BC was me. See here:
http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1036&message=21302981

Talked to Pentax Canada (they have my K10D to look at this phenomena) and they claim, that the software update to v.1.1 will fix it. I am sceptic, as I see this as a hardware related issue. Once I get it back, I will go out and test it again. Will report here.
Reps said:
Apparent is that one of the two G channels is missing, R & B
channels are OK, G at 1/2 on white surface crop- so sensor
readoutof either Gr or Gb channels?
Click to expand...
Think that is it, more examples here:
http://www.pbase.com/torge/k10d

I am shooting my 645 these days and now I am looking at MF film scanners again ...
Cheers,
Torge

P.S.: I am not willing to accept my K10D not to work below 0degrees, as all my previous digicams and DSLRs have always worked under such conditions. I thought K10D is supposed to be rougher with all its weather sealing (which is one reason I got it).
--



Various tags to clarify what your message is about...

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IMGP: images posted to the forum for enjoyment of all
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--



Various tags to clarify what your message is about...

HELP: having difficulty with camera
TIP: stuff you've figured out how to do and want to share
IMGP: images posted to the forum for enjoyment of all
TECH: technical talk and rumors
CHALLENGE: for all our various challenges
ORG: anything issues about the forum
CR: please critique my images
CHAT: This place is so great, I love you guys! etc.
OT: Off the Topic of Pentax DSLR photography
LINK: links to other sites
 
... and this time the weather was rather pleasant: -8°C and sunny without wind- and the camera was in Pentax padded crossover bag and did not feel cold at all to naked hands :-) Same case struck my K10D under similar circumstances: was hiking about 1/2 hour and decided to change WB from Sunny to Cloudy- and there it was:



Changing WB back had no effect but camera Off/On restored normal operation :-) Once again I got this situation while shooting JPEG only (normally do PEF+JPEG)... but I believe according to Torge's experience that it also happens with DNG/PEF- so some weird sensor/PRIME glitch. Have given my K10D several freezer tests- and nothing up to -18°C so far- very strange and somehow my experience has always started with WB change :-) But OK, we have some cold here for 1 month at least :-( so looking forward to further fun with 1/2 green channel pics...

Best and happy shooting and still NOT disappointed with K10D, JR
--

 
Reps, sorry to hear that!
Reps said:
Once again I got this situation while shooting JPEG
only (normally do PEF+JPEG)... but I believe according to Torge's
experience that it also happens with DNG/PEF- so some weird
sensor/PRIME glitch.
Click to expand...
Yep, that is right.
Reps said:
Have given my K10D several freezer tests- and nothing up to -18°C
so far- very strange and somehow my experience has always
started with WB change :-)
Click to expand...
Very interesting! You are talking fahrenheit or celsius?

In the cases I observed it has never been linked to setting the WB. As I shoot raw I generally don't touch those.

I am still waiting for my camera to come back from Pentax.
Cheers,
Torge

P.S. O, have you upgraded your software? Presumably v1.1 takes care of this problem.

--



Various tags to clarify what your message is about...

HELP: having difficulty with camera
TIP: stuff you've figured out how to do and want to share
IMGP: images posted to the forum for enjoyment of all
TECH: technical talk and rumors
CHALLENGE: for all our various challenges
ORG: anything issues about the forum
CR: please critique my images
CHAT: This place is so great, I love you guys! etc.
OT: Off the Topic of Pentax DSLR photography
LINK: links to other sites
 
Albert Aguilar said:
Page 3 of the K10D manual states that the operating temperature
range is from 0º C to 40º C (32º F to 104º F). So I suggest to keep
your camera warm until the very moment of shot.

Albert

PS
Do not considere it an issue, it happens with every electronic
device, (even Canon and Nikon!)
Click to expand...
Not sure why Pentax has this problem. On the Sony SLR forum this
post showed some great photos taken at very cold temperatures,
and the Sony A100 seemed to have few issues... other than the
lack of response to some specialized light frequencies... they affected
the colour response somewhat, but nowhere near as bad as on the
Pentax.

Anyway, check this out:
http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1037&message=22021824

--
Gil
Sardis, BC
Canada
 
As follows:
Reps said:
... and this time the weather was rather pleasant: -8°C and sunny
without wind- and the camera was in Pentax padded crossover bag and
did not feel cold at all to naked hands :-) Same case struck my
K10D under similar circumstances: was hiking about 1/2 hour and
decided to change WB from Sunny to Cloudy- and there it was:



Changing WB back had no effect but camera Off/On restored normal
operation :-) Once again I got this situation while shooting JPEG
only (normally do PEF+JPEG)... but I believe according to Torge's
experience that it also happens with DNG/PEF- so some weird
sensor/PRIME glitch. Have given my K10D several freezer tests- and
nothing up to -18°C so far- very strange and somehow my experience
has always started with WB change :-) But OK, we have some cold
here for 1 month at least :-( so looking forward to further fun
with 1/2 green channel pics...
Click to expand...
What do you mean 1/2 green channel? From the magenta image above it looks like there is no green in the image at all (could confirm that better from raw), which kind of makes sense since the green information is read entirely through PRIME from the sensor by a separate ADC chain. Let's say some sort of power glitch due to the cold is causing the green ADC to "hang", requiring a "hard reset/power off/on" cycle to get it running again.

Regards, GordonBGood
 
I climb on 6000 meters high mountain. It was -15ºC average and my D200 works all the time.
Albert Aguilar said:
Hi, JR

Page 3 of the K10D manual states that the operating temperature
range is from 0º C to 40º C (32º F to 104º F). So I suggest to keep
your camera warm until the very moment of shot.

Albert

PS
Do not considere it an issue, it happens with every electronic
device, (even Canon and Nikon!)
--
Do not take life too seriously; you are not going to end it alive.
Click to expand...
 
Reps said:
In my case 50% of green was missing (seen in RGB histogram) and it
is the Blue pixel neighbor Gb channel- see this document for layout
of 4 color channels: http://www.diagnostika.ee/K10D/Sensor.pdf
Click to expand...
JR, yes I was aware of the general layout of the sensor and how it's read out from my vertical pattern back out studies, although not that it read pairs of photosites of the same colour from the same row for every scan column. In fact, there are not four colour channels but only two for the K10D sensor, with alternate scan columns from the channels alternately reading pairs of photosites from the red row and the blue row.

In order for you to "lose" half of your greens, the problem would not be with the channel reading circuitry outside the sensor, but rather something inside the actual sensor that didn't deliver the Gb photosites to the green scan channel outputs. In other words, some sensors have some sort of temperature sensitivity where they stop delivering some photosites outputs to the output channel or the reset for those photosites is staying triggered to the cleared state. Interesting that a switch off/on fixed it.

Regards, GordonBGood
 
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