iPod & Belkin Card Reader

This really isn't your call to make. You blatantly criticized my
children (which is what calling them ungrateful would be). Now
you're attempting to justify it? That would be called audacity,
which makes you an audacious ass, one that is losing credibility
(that you really never had) the more you post.
It's as much my call to make as it is yours. I repeat again for those who find it difficult to understand, I simply put your words on your childrens behaviour into one: ungratefulness.

As for justifying it? I don't have to - you already did which is the whole point. I'm not being audacious either, I stand by my original statement.
As for how happy I am that my children don't like their two iPods
-- admittedly not very. However, they are not the problem -- the
iPods are the problem since they are not even living up to their
advertised feature list. Any time you use the screen and hard
drive a lot on an iPod Video, you can watch the battery drain like
a toilet flushing. But I'm sure it's still a great PSD since when
copying photos over to the iPod you wouldn't use the screen or hard
drive at all....uh...um.....DUH. That would be the missed obvious
logic part.
Lets get this straight, YOUR iPod isn't living up to whatever YOU expect of it. If it isn't living up to Apple's Specs return it. My iPod lives us to its specifications fine and functions perfectly after 3 months.
What makes you think anyone here cares what you do for a living?
It's obvious that your Apple inventory list in your signature line
is the primary reason for such a blind defense and recommendation
of using the iPod as a PSD. I can guarantee you if Apple came out
with a dSLR, you'd buy it immediately, and then come here to argue
with Nikon and Canon owners that the Apple dSLR is far superior and
they're just being deceitful about capabilities of the Apple dSLR.
You're a card-carrying Apple zealot. Just admit it, dude. You
live for this type of thread.
You can't guarantee anything of the sort. Unless your omniscient that is, which I doubt. Actually, my main preference for Apple products is their design and integrated functionality. That being said, I like my Nikon equipment as much as my Mac's. Like I said, I own shedloads of other manufacturer's items that can get the job done. What I choose to list in my signature is my choice.
This is a camera forum and you've felt the need to list your
computer and portable audio equipment in your signature? Why?
(that's a rhetorical question -- we already know the answer is that
you are an Apple zealot).
Not that this needs to be justified, but in a camera forum (where computer sub-forums do actually exist), it is helpful to list your equipment if you are ever in need of help so people know what you are using without you continually having to spell it out.
So stick the Apple decal on your forehead -- what do I care? I'm
sure that next you'll be telling me that my choice of automobiles
is deceitful or because my daughter doesn't like the latest Hyundai
lineup that she's ungrateful. Here's another presumption for you
to complain about: You need to get back on your medication.
Only if you purchased her one for her birthday. I tend to more of the prescribing medication in my profession actually. As for the rest of it, blah blah blah...
By mentioning my children I was simply (and clearly) illustrating
that even the target market for iPods (ie, teenaged children) don't
like them, even just for their falsely advertised audio and video
features.
And who says teenage children are the target audience for iPods? Those features aren't falsely advertised. If thats the case I'd get on to your local trading standards organisation.

David
--
Nikon D50 + 18 - 55mm, Fuijfilm F30, Epson R245, Canon CP400
iMac C2D 2.0Ghz, MacBook CD, Powerbook G4, iPod 5.5G 30GB.
http://www.davidjearly.com
http://www.abdnmug.co.uk

 
You are both acting like children with name calling and making comments about other peoples kids etc...

1st off

David, I'm sorry but I think you are being an apple loyalist there have been several posts in the forum about how 5G Ipods can not transfer multiple 2G cards on a single charge but you steadfastly state otherwise.

I have a 40GB Ipod photo which when it was brand new it could not transfer a full 2GB card over, from all reports on Ilounge.com and other Ipod websites the Ipod Videos even the 80GB versions are no better.

Mr. Fixitx
 
You are both acting like children with name calling and making
comments about other peoples kids etc...
Please do not group me in with that man. I admit I called the man an ass, but only after he out of the blue criticized my children and the way they're being raised (as if that has ANYTHING to do with the original topic) because the man has a love-fest going on with his Apple gear. Call it mother bear syndrome or whatever you want, but I don't care who it comes from -- NO ONE goes after my children like that without it being addressed.
1st off

David, I'm sorry but I think you are being an apple loyalist there
have been several posts in the forum about how 5G Ipods can not
transfer multiple 2G cards on a single charge but you steadfastly
state otherwise.

I have a 40GB Ipod photo which when it was brand new it could not
transfer a full 2GB card over, from all reports on Ilounge.com and
other Ipod websites the Ipod Videos even the 80GB versions are no
better.
MrFixitx, you are obviously expecting too much out of your iPod, and you should've just taken it back to the store because it's obviously malfunctioning. Oh, and you're raising your ungrateful children improperly.

I think David is the only person in the world who was able to order the Super iPod that does anything and everything he wants it to do, while the rest of us just get regular ol' iPods. Bummer.

--

 
I'm not being audacious either, I stand by my
original statement.
But of course you do. That's what makes you audacious.
My iPod lives us to its specifications fine and functions perfectly
after 3 months.
My turn -- let me get this straight. I've been debating the capabilities and functionality of iPods with someone who has only owned one for three months? We've owned two of them for over a year now. Why don't you come back and post to this thread when you've had a bit more experience with the hardware. Maybe then you'll understand that there's a difference between real world specs and the misleading rhetoric that Apple posts on their marketing site.
What I choose to list in my signature is my choice.

Not that this needs to be justified, but in a camera forum (where
computer sub-forums do actually exist), it is helpful to list your
equipment if you are ever in need of help so people know what you
are using without you continually having to spell it out.
Yeah, I forgot to thank you for screwing up the search engine by posting every piece of hardware you own in your signature. Since you apparently feel the need to have an all-inclusive brag list, how about putting it in a graphic file so every time someone searches for Nkon, iPod, Apple, etc., it doesn't include your completely unrelated messages because you have these common namebrands/models in your signature.
So stick the Apple decal on your forehead -- what do I care? I'm
sure that next you'll be telling me that my choice of automobiles
is deceitful or because my daughter doesn't like the latest Hyundai
lineup that she's ungrateful. Here's another presumption for you
to complain about: You need to get back on your medication.
Only if you purchased her one for her birthday.
So....now I must consult with you about my children's birthday presents? The audacity just keeps on coming...
And who says teenage children are the target audience for iPods?
I say so. Apple's financial statements/statistics say so. Every "Christmas List" story printed or aired in the last 5 years says so. Of course, it doesn't matter if everyone in the world except for you said so, you would simply say that our data was deceitful or analyzed incorrectly, and then you'd probably insult everyone's children, spouses, pets...education...fashion sense...

--

 
Right, lets cut this down a bit. I'm going to try condense things as much as I can... (i.e. ignoring most of the junk you have written and only addressing the points that matter)
My turn -- let me get this straight. I've been debating the
capabilities and functionality of iPods with someone who has only
owned one for three months?.... blah blah blah...Maybe then
you'll understand that there's a difference between real world
specs and the misleading rhetoric that Apple posts on their
marketing site...blah blah blah....
I have only owned the latest 5.5G iPod for around 3 months (since it was released). I have owned many iPods in the past.

Now, (and this is the IMPORTANT bit...), MY iPod DOES live up to the advertised specs.
So....now I must consult with you about my children's birthday
presents...blah blah blah...
No, you don't need to consult anything with me. I'm saying that it would be ungrateful of your kids if they were bought ANY gift that they then reject.
I say so. Apple's financial statements/statistics say so. Every
"Christmas List" story printed or aired in the last 5 years says
so. Of course, it doesn't matter if everyone in the world except
for you said so, you would simply say that our data was deceitful
or analyzed incorrectly...blah blah blah
YOU don't have any data. Apple does not release ANY financial information regarding individual product sales. They don't even release data on which iPod has sold most (although it is widely believed to be the Nano, which is not what we are discussing here). They only release figures for their entire ranges (i.e. Macs and iPod's). It is believed however that the majority of kids have iPod Nano's and not the larger HDD based models. (Unless of course you take kid to mean anyone under 25).

David
--
Nikon D50 + 18 - 55mm, Fuijfilm F30, Epson R245, Canon CP400
iMac C2D 2.0Ghz, MacBook CD, Powerbook G4, iPod 5.5G 30GB.
http://www.davidjearly.com
http://www.abdnmug.co.uk

 
David, I'm sorry but I think you are being an apple loyalist there
have been several posts in the forum about how 5G Ipods can not
transfer multiple 2G cards on a single charge but you steadfastly
state otherwise.
I'm not loyal to brands, but to products. I like products that work. I like products that are well designed. I'm not hiding that. I like products from many companies like Nikon, Fuji, Apple, LG, Microsoft, Adobe.... but at the same time all of those companies sell products which I do not like, including Apple.

I state what my iPod CAN do and I am entitled to do that. It's not my fault there is an anti-iPod revolution starting because people have the desire not to be 'mainstream' when a product gets popular.

I won't stand back and see false information given out over a products capabilities because people have an issue with their particular model.
I have a 40GB Ipod photo which when it was brand new it could not
transfer a full 2GB card over, from all reports on Ilounge.com and
other Ipod websites the Ipod Videos even the 80GB versions are no
better.
Your 40GB iPod Photo (which I also owned at one point before upgrading to the current model), isn't comparable to the latest model so whats your point. I never said that model of iPod could transfer a 2GB card because at that point I never tested its capacity to do so. What I am saying is that the current 30GB 5.5G iPod with Video can.

iLounge has never reviewed ANY iPod in its capacity to transfer a 2GB card in a single charge so what has that got to do with anything?

The CURRENT 80GB iPod does longer (so in that respect, it is better) than the 30GB model.

David
--
Nikon D50 + 18 - 55mm, Fuijfilm F30, Epson R245, Canon CP400
iMac C2D 2.0Ghz, MacBook CD, Powerbook G4, iPod 5.5G 30GB.
http://www.davidjearly.com
http://www.abdnmug.co.uk

 
wow! you can transfer a WHOLE 2G card - what a fantastic device for the serious photographer....

(cue ironic belly laugh)
 
Actually, I have previously said I can transfer several if you were paying so much attention you felt the need to reply.

I didn't say that this made it the best ever device for photo transfers on the go, I said I think it is an excellent solution for people with iPods (or considering buying one for their audio/video capabilities), as you only needed a cheap adapter to allow it to act as a backup. The point being, it would save a lot of money on an over-priced Epson (or other branded) device.

David
--
Nikon D50 + 18 - 55mm, Fuijfilm F30, Epson R245, Canon CP400
iMac C2D 2.0Ghz, MacBook CD, Powerbook G4, iPod 5.5G 30GB.
http://www.davidjearly.com
http://www.abdnmug.co.uk

 
yes actually I also commented earlier what a great and accurate scientific measurement "several" was.

ps I'm still laughing my socks off at the idea of using an ipod for serious backup.
 
Yes, forgetting about all the other completely irrelevant things you've brought up (including insulting my children and my parenting methods), let's get back to the meat of the issue.

I recommended the Creative Zen Vision W over the iPod Video and you recommend the opposite (even going so far as to recommend it over the Epson P-series), so let's compare the solutions, to see if what you're saying above about the iPod being a cheaper solution than other branded devices is true. Note that the following prices are fairly accurate street price for all products mentioned, using PriceGrabber and other similar sites to get the lowest legitimate retail price. Sorry for those across the pond(s), but the prices are in US$.

The Vision W is $260 for a 30GB model and $360 for a 60GB, and doesn't require a 3rd party adapter because it has a built-in CF card slot. It also has a MUCH bigger screen for viewing the photos, which also comes in handy for watching videos. The video formats supported WITHOUT SYNCING/CONVERTING/ETC. are AVI, WMV9, MPEG1, MPEG2, MPEG4-SP, MJPEG, DivX 4.x/ 5.x, XviD-SP. The audio formats supported WITHOUT SYNCING/CONVERTING/ETC. are MP3, WMA, WAV. The audio and video formats listed can be copied directly to the hard drive from a CF card or via cable with the device in USB drive mode. The video battery life is 4.5 hours and the audio battery life is 13 hours.

The iPod Video is $240 for the 30GB model and $340 for the 80GB model. To use it as a PSD, you need either the Apple or Belkin camera connector, which is roughly $30 for either (the Belkin version used to be significantly higher priced). If you don't want to (or can't due to compatibility issues) connect your camera directly to the camera connector, you will need a card reader, and it is advisable on most 3rd-party tech sites to buy a specific few models of card reader to ensure the best compatibility the iPod camera connector. Another $20 for a card reader. The screen (even on the 5.5 gen) is very small, although it is admittedly bright and "pixel dense" (so it displays small dimensioned but very sharp video/photos). The only video formats supported are H.264 and MPEG4. The audio formats supported are AAC. If you want to put any other format of audio or video on your iPod, you have to use iTunes to convert it and sync it over. The iPod does not support drive mode for copying music, video, and photo files over. That is to say that you can copy them over, but they will not play or display on the iPod. All files must be sync'ed over to the iPod via iTunes. The video battery life is up to 3.5 hours for the 30GB model and up to 6.5 hours for the 80GB model. The audio battery life is up to 14 hours for the 30GB model and up to 20 hours for the 80GB model.

Now. Why is the iPod a bettery PSD solution than other branded devices? In my opinion and using the above specs, it's not.

It costs more money because you have to buy a camera connector and card reader for it, which also convolutes the system by having to attach extra devices, wires, etc., and increases the potential points of failure and subsequent troubleshooting. Not only is it using up the iPod's battery, but if you're connecting your camera to it instead of using a card reader, you're also using up the camera's battery, too. The battery ratings listed on the Apple website for the new 5.5 gen 80GB model are impressive, but most of the 3rd-party review sites do not agree with those figures, and put them at something less -- not much less, but less. Most review sites also state that camera connector related battery life is not great with most claiming you can only copy one 2GB card per battery charge, and that process is S-L-O-W as a dog.

The Creative Zen Vision W has a built-in CF card slot. If your camera of choice does not use CF cards, you can buy an adapter to use your SD, XD, Memory Stick, etc. card in the CF card slot for as cheap as $12 and up to $20 for a reputable, namebrand adapter. Most people looking for a PSD solution have a camera that uses CF cards. Because you're using the CF card slot, you're not using your camera's battery at all. The battery life for the Vision W seems to be accurately rated on the Creative website, as most 3rd-party reviews put the video battery life at 4 hours 30 minutes and 12-14 hours of audio battery life. All real world reports put the time to copy a 1GB CF card to the Vision W at no more than 5 minutes, and most quoted significantly less time per 1GB CF card.

Sorry, but I'm just not seeing the iPod as even a remotely good solution for anything other than audio, and even that comes with some "buts" that will only increase as more and more sources for cheaper WMA format songs come out of the woodwork due to the Zune. I understand that you're speaking from the perspective of someone who already owns the iPod, and in truth I feel your pain. Looking with disatisfaction at two 30GB iPod video devices in my house is rather annoying, and I wish it offered better PSD features so that, if nothing else, I could use them for that purpose. Unfortunately, it does not. So even looking beyond my personal dislike of the iPod as multimedia device, it's even less acceptable for use as a PSD.

Before you get your undergarments in another wad though, I will tell you that I had high hopes for the Zune. Unfortunately, these hopes were completely dashed as it does not include a built-in memory card slot of any type, does not support USB drive mode at all, and even its fancy Wi-Fi functionality is limiited to the point of being worthless.

In summary, most multimedia players do not make good PSDs. However, I feel the Creative Zen Vision W comes closer and at a lower price point than anything else currently out there.

--

 
It stands to reason that the longer the transfer takes the longer the ipod hard drive is spinning and the more battery power it uses. If your ipod-> camera xfer rate is slow it will drain the battery after less data.

Transfer rates seem to vary wildly between cameras.

Awhile back I tested my ipod video with a D70, an olympus 5050 and a fuji p&s. It worked but was very slow.

Someone else had done some testing with a Canon DSLR and had gotten much higher transfer rates and was able to xfer alot of pictures.

Amount of data an ipod can xfer = (xfer rate) * (number of minutes before battery dies).

see this thread.
http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1023&message=19576071
 
Hi Effzeeone;

You are number ONE indeed for providing us with such a detailed post regarding these two products.

I think neither of these two are professional solution as PSD. There are dedicated devices such as "Image Tank" and another one which you may find in B&H I guess it is "Space disk Sanho" and the last and the best I guess is Epson.

We will want that Canon provide us with such a device as "Nikon Cool Walker".

I like the Apple iPod , it is just B E U T I F U L :-) and robust. It is wonderful gadget which ALSO could take not say 1 GB of pictures in one session but it takes half of this .

Sometimes we could not optimize we just forced to compromise.

I guess as long as you are in a privileged world any brand is as good as other. I am sure that in the USA Olympus is as good as Canon and Canon is as good as Nikon, since you get all appropriate services for any brand.

P.S.
forgive me for any typo, English is not my first language.

Thanks,
alborz
Yes, forgetting about all the other completely irrelevant things
you've brought up (including insulting my children and my parenting
methods), let's get back to the meat of the issue.

I recommended the Creative Zen Vision W over the iPod Video and you
recommend the opposite (even going so far as to recommend it over
the Epson P-series), so let's compare the solutions, to see if what
you're saying above about the iPod being a cheaper solution than
other branded devices is true. Note that the following prices are
fairly accurate street price for all products mentioned, using
PriceGrabber and other similar sites to get the lowest legitimate
retail price. Sorry for those across the pond(s), but the prices
are in US$.
 

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