H
Henry Richardson
Guest
Plenty of posts by people that aren't American on this and other forums about the same thing.
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Henry Richardson
http://www.bakubo.com
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Welcome to the new forums! Please read this first. For known issues we are working to resolve, click here.
new camera model fetishists (a bit of a rant)
- Thread starter roon_smits
- Start date
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Henry Richardson
http://www.bakubo.com
DerekSurfs
Senior Member
Actually,
This is one of the main reasons I don't participate here as much as I used too. I have been a forum member since 2001. The number of people whining about their newest toy gets so old it is really rediculous.
Where is the substance? The forum quality to quantity ratio has really taken a down turn.
But every now and again we still get greats posts which I learn from like the recent one on night shots. I have learned something from Gisli and his great shots of Iceland with his older (20D) Canon gear - imagine that.
But I do prefer visiting other photography forums now without such an emphasis of gear lust, whining, and childish debates.
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Derek
This is one of the main reasons I don't participate here as much as I used too. I have been a forum member since 2001. The number of people whining about their newest toy gets so old it is really rediculous.
Where is the substance? The forum quality to quantity ratio has really taken a down turn.
But every now and again we still get greats posts which I learn from like the recent one on night shots. I have learned something from Gisli and his great shots of Iceland with his older (20D) Canon gear - imagine that.
But I do prefer visiting other photography forums now without such an emphasis of gear lust, whining, and childish debates.
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Derek
roon_smits
Leading Member
David Hull
Veteran Member
What are some of the forums you visit?
DerekSurfs
Senior Member
Since moving to Colorado last year I have begun doing a lot more landscape and nature photography. So I have really enjoyed this forum the most:
http://www.naturephotographers.net/imagecritique/bbs.cgi?a=vf10
The main page for other areas is here (mainly US and Europe forums):
http://www.naturephotographers.net/
Most of the photographers are extremely talented, some authors, pros, etc... and about half shoot digital, half still film (medium, large format). So I am a bit of a novice in their arena. But I have been learning a lot and they are very helpful.
They main difference I notice is that there is a strong sense of community and mutual respect amoungst the members. The whining and childish debates are almost non-existent. Yet the quality of work, photographic skill and knowledge is very high. We have get togethers for photo shoots (i.e. Fall Colors), annual shindigs, etc...
I also like FredMiranda and another Colorado specific forum here:
http://www.npcolorado.net/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=2
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Derek
http://www.naturephotographers.net/imagecritique/bbs.cgi?a=vf10
The main page for other areas is here (mainly US and Europe forums):
http://www.naturephotographers.net/
Most of the photographers are extremely talented, some authors, pros, etc... and about half shoot digital, half still film (medium, large format). So I am a bit of a novice in their arena. But I have been learning a lot and they are very helpful.
They main difference I notice is that there is a strong sense of community and mutual respect amoungst the members. The whining and childish debates are almost non-existent. Yet the quality of work, photographic skill and knowledge is very high. We have get togethers for photo shoots (i.e. Fall Colors), annual shindigs, etc...
I also like FredMiranda and another Colorado specific forum here:
http://www.npcolorado.net/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=2
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Derek
DerekSurfs
Senior Member
Here are just a few samples of what these guys are shooting:
http://www.widerange.org/photo.php?id=647&gallery=LargeFormat
http://www.daveshowalter.com/photo.php?id=49&gallery=northwest
http://landscapetony.smugmug.com/gallery/1472213/1/119149501
Large format + velvia 50 + great talent is still an amazing combo.
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Derek
http://www.widerange.org/photo.php?id=647&gallery=LargeFormat
http://www.daveshowalter.com/photo.php?id=49&gallery=northwest
http://landscapetony.smugmug.com/gallery/1472213/1/119149501
Large format + velvia 50 + great talent is still an amazing combo.
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Derek
glasswave
Forum Pro
It's time for a rant about ranters.
Why not simply skip posts that are not to your liking? A quick scan of the first page reveals more photo posts, gear choice and HW probs lead the subjects, but cptr probs, , vendor/pricing, and skills are also common.
Sure as PMA or August approaches you get many speculators, not all are 30d owners some are 10d and d30 owners, some don't even have an slr yet, some just do it for fun.
I just skip posts I don't like. If you wish to moderate the forum apply with phil or get your own.
Why not simply skip posts that are not to your liking? A quick scan of the first page reveals more photo posts, gear choice and HW probs lead the subjects, but cptr probs, , vendor/pricing, and skills are also common.
Sure as PMA or August approaches you get many speculators, not all are 30d owners some are 10d and d30 owners, some don't even have an slr yet, some just do it for fun.
I just skip posts I don't like. If you wish to moderate the forum apply with phil or get your own.
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Henry Richardson
Guest
MarkLand
Senior Member
LOL. It's easy to ignor those posts, just like the "please pump up my webpage" posts.
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http://www.pbase.com/markland/
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http://www.pbase.com/markland/
chaosman
Leading Member
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Rien n'est simple, tout se complique.....
http://foto.huizechaos.be (gallery)
http://www.huizechaos.be
Rien n'est simple, tout se complique.....
http://foto.huizechaos.be (gallery)
http://www.huizechaos.be
roon_smits
Leading Member
GB21914
Member
There are a few people "out there" that truly beleive that they are great photographers...and when they fail to get the images that they want...they blame the equipment.
I've never understood this concept myself...nor do I consider myself to be a great photographer. I've been taking photo's for 5 years...I blame my father. I've finally got to the point where I've been asked to shoot weddings...or an event here and there; But I think we as photographers have to remember that there is ALWAYS something more to learn.
Ever notice that the people on this forum that rush out to buy the latest and greatest camera's generally have worst photo's to show for it? These people simply do not grasp the concept that the person behind the camera has more to do with the image than the camera taking the photo.
It's up to each photographer to select their gear, and to push themselves into more expensive hardware as they feel their skill building.
My 3 simple rules are:
1. Take the picture with your brain before you take it with the camera.
2. Find a fellow photographer and challenge each other
3. Know your equipment before you buy again
Just my $0.02 worth.
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Greg B
http://www.bainwerx.com
Canon 30D / 300D
I've never understood this concept myself...nor do I consider myself to be a great photographer. I've been taking photo's for 5 years...I blame my father. I've finally got to the point where I've been asked to shoot weddings...or an event here and there; But I think we as photographers have to remember that there is ALWAYS something more to learn.
Ever notice that the people on this forum that rush out to buy the latest and greatest camera's generally have worst photo's to show for it? These people simply do not grasp the concept that the person behind the camera has more to do with the image than the camera taking the photo.
It's up to each photographer to select their gear, and to push themselves into more expensive hardware as they feel their skill building.
My 3 simple rules are:
1. Take the picture with your brain before you take it with the camera.
2. Find a fellow photographer and challenge each other
3. Know your equipment before you buy again
Just my $0.02 worth.
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Greg B
http://www.bainwerx.com
Canon 30D / 300D
DerekSurfs
Senior Member
I have to admit that when I was new to digital photography around 6 years ago I fell into the same trap.
My first Canon G1 always seemed to blow out the skies. Granted it wasn't a perfect camera. But I did not understand exposure. I had no clue how to use manual mode and relied on the camera entirely to guess the right exposure for me.
It wasn't until several years later that I discovered the importance of metering on the sky more if I didn't want it blown out. And that manual mode was really my friend.
Then there was the whole RAW mode revelation for pulling out more detail from the shadows, etc...
I guess what I have discovered is that some things just take time and no amount a new gadgetry can replace knowledge gained through experience.
With that being said I guess I still need to have patience with the newbies who swear it is the camera that is the problem. Some things will just take time for them to learn.
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Derek
Alpha Channel
Well-known member
I have to say that I get even more tired of seeing long discussions bashing other photographers than those speculating on new equipment. Let's face it, getting a new piece of equipment is fun and it has been fun, for most of us, watching the rapid evolution of the DSLRs. We are now reaching a point where the technical advancements are likely to slow down (but continue).
I loved my 10D and I took many photos with it that I am proud of. When I moved to a 20D, it wasn't because the 10D was a bad camera suddenly, but because the 20D enabled me to extend the range of my photography. Much of what I do is in very low ambient light (such as Madrigal Dinners lit by candlelight and stage performances) and the change from the 10D to the 20D made a huge difference for those types of photography with it's improved low-light focus performance and its 1600 ISO noise levels that were on par with the 10D's 400 ISO noise levels.
I am not in a hurry to get rid of my 20D, it is rarely out of reach and is an incredibly valuable tool. However, I will still look forward to new cameras with a sense of excitement because it's just possible that the 40D or 50D or whatever, might allow me to further extend the range of my photography. Excellent tools like the 20D and excellent large aperture lenses have allowed me to provide many parents with photos of their children in school activities where no P&S camera stands a chance. I look forward to March to find out what is coming next.
I loved my 10D and I took many photos with it that I am proud of. When I moved to a 20D, it wasn't because the 10D was a bad camera suddenly, but because the 20D enabled me to extend the range of my photography. Much of what I do is in very low ambient light (such as Madrigal Dinners lit by candlelight and stage performances) and the change from the 10D to the 20D made a huge difference for those types of photography with it's improved low-light focus performance and its 1600 ISO noise levels that were on par with the 10D's 400 ISO noise levels.
I am not in a hurry to get rid of my 20D, it is rarely out of reach and is an incredibly valuable tool. However, I will still look forward to new cameras with a sense of excitement because it's just possible that the 40D or 50D or whatever, might allow me to further extend the range of my photography. Excellent tools like the 20D and excellent large aperture lenses have allowed me to provide many parents with photos of their children in school activities where no P&S camera stands a chance. I look forward to March to find out what is coming next.
You don't expect them to blame themselves, do you?
Or, simply can't afford to??
Generally, I agree with what you are saying. The exception being when the issue they are complaining about is a regression. The flash situation, for example. If they previously had a 300D or 350, and had no such limitation, then I think it perfectly legitimate to complain about it being present in the 400D. The exception to this would be if the limitation was intentionally introduced because of many instances of the previous flashes being burned out by excessive heat built up from too many consecutive flashes. I don't recall hearing of any such occasions, however.
That said, How many people actually encounter this problem, vs. complaining about it simply because it exists?
-Larry
http://www.pbase.com/lardog
Jr Kehoe
Forum Enthusiast
Yes, the new model will be nice and shiny, but since my older model is justs sitting there depressiating, why not go out and take pictures instead of wish i had the new camera. The 2 Megapixel diffrence, is alot, but not enough to overcome going out and takeing picutures. Why have a camera if your not going to take pictures wiht it? its just alittle thing i remember here and there.
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-Kehoe
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-Kehoe
DerekSurfs
Senior Member
Yeah,
It is the typical gear frenzy before a big release. It happens every 12-18 months right before Canon's next big body release. It starts out with the rumor threads, dream lists and wild speculations. Then all the post release complaints about how Canon really screwed up and should have provided more features, etc, etc...
I have to admit that I am interested to see what Canon releases next. I just think it is the repetitive nature of those threads that gets old. So those are the ones I normally try and skip. I guess it is just part of the nature of a gear forum. People will tend to get wrapped up in the latest and greatest thing. I have seen the same thing on auto forums right before the next model car/truck comes out.
Sometimes it is entertaining. Other times it is just ... well you know the story.
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Derek
It is the typical gear frenzy before a big release. It happens every 12-18 months right before Canon's next big body release. It starts out with the rumor threads, dream lists and wild speculations. Then all the post release complaints about how Canon really screwed up and should have provided more features, etc, etc...
I have to admit that I am interested to see what Canon releases next. I just think it is the repetitive nature of those threads that gets old. So those are the ones I normally try and skip. I guess it is just part of the nature of a gear forum. People will tend to get wrapped up in the latest and greatest thing. I have seen the same thing on auto forums right before the next model car/truck comes out.
Sometimes it is entertaining. Other times it is just ... well you know the story.
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Derek
I'l guess I'll chim in too.
Imagine my surprise at the "late" release of the new 40D when I have owned my 20D for less that two months.
Now I have to admit, I was not watchin Canon at all. I had my heart set on a Nikon D70. One reaso was the 20D was out of my price range.
The D70 was replaced by the D80, and prices had come down. Yea for me!
But then I see the 20D for sale for a very low price.
I had to quick go home and research and see if I wanted that, or the D70 I have been lusting after for about 18 months.
Well, I got the 20D (thinking it had just been replaced). And I come to find out I now have a dinosaur! How horrifying!!
This thing has been out of date for almost two years.
I'll be the first to admit I am a gearhead. But the camera I have is a very nice camera.
I am still learning how to use it. This aspect is so bad, I just bought myself a new lens, and since I don't do post processing very well yet, I am having trouble evaluating this new glass (Sigma 28-70 2.8).
I am a hobbiest, and I will enjoy my "new" camera.
I am sure the better I learn how to use it (and photoshop) I will enjoy it more than I do now.
As for the "latest and greatest" I bought the best camera I could afford.
If you want more performance than the 30D, they are out there, they just cost more.
When I am ready to replace this 20D, I may again buy an out of date camera. But it will be the best I can afford at that time.
Imagine my surprise at the "late" release of the new 40D when I have owned my 20D for less that two months.
Now I have to admit, I was not watchin Canon at all. I had my heart set on a Nikon D70. One reaso was the 20D was out of my price range.
The D70 was replaced by the D80, and prices had come down. Yea for me!
But then I see the 20D for sale for a very low price.
I had to quick go home and research and see if I wanted that, or the D70 I have been lusting after for about 18 months.
Well, I got the 20D (thinking it had just been replaced). And I come to find out I now have a dinosaur! How horrifying!!
This thing has been out of date for almost two years.
I'll be the first to admit I am a gearhead. But the camera I have is a very nice camera.
I am still learning how to use it. This aspect is so bad, I just bought myself a new lens, and since I don't do post processing very well yet, I am having trouble evaluating this new glass (Sigma 28-70 2.8).
I am a hobbiest, and I will enjoy my "new" camera.
I am sure the better I learn how to use it (and photoshop) I will enjoy it more than I do now.
As for the "latest and greatest" I bought the best camera I could afford.
If you want more performance than the 30D, they are out there, they just cost more.
When I am ready to replace this 20D, I may again buy an out of date camera. But it will be the best I can afford at that time.
DerekSurfs
Senior Member
Believe it or not I am still happily shooting with my 10D.
It is a great camera and even works better now then when it was brand new. Why? Not because the camera is any different. But because I have taken the time to learn how to use it, its nuances, and understand its strengths and weaknesses.
Have I considered upgrades? Sure. But I haven't seen the real world world benefits in these upgrades for my photography. Maybe if I shot a lot of low light parties then the 20D would be worth it. I do on occasion like to do night photograpy so I could enjoy the better high ISO performance.
Heck, I was just thinking if the new 40D does not offer me much in terms of significant upgrades, it would be a great time to pick up a mint 20D . I don't really know if I want or need a 12 MP camera.
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Derek
It is a great camera and even works better now then when it was brand new. Why? Not because the camera is any different. But because I have taken the time to learn how to use it, its nuances, and understand its strengths and weaknesses.
Have I considered upgrades? Sure. But I haven't seen the real world world benefits in these upgrades for my photography. Maybe if I shot a lot of low light parties then the 20D would be worth it. I do on occasion like to do night photograpy so I could enjoy the better high ISO performance.
Heck, I was just thinking if the new 40D does not offer me much in terms of significant upgrades, it would be a great time to pick up a mint 20D . I don't really know if I want or need a 12 MP camera.
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Derek
Propwash
Active member
Have you not noticed that every year car manufacturers come out with a new and improved version of their entire line-up? And they all do it, without exception. People sell or trade perfectly good cars to get the latest one. I buy lightly used Lexus cars at a 75% discount from new. Great. Glad someone bought the damn thing new, otherwise I'd have to drive something else I guess.
Same with clothes, stereo gear, TV's, and of course cameras. What's the big surprise? And after all, if you aren't going to join in, why worry about it one nano second longer? Move on.
Same with clothes, stereo gear, TV's, and of course cameras. What's the big surprise? And after all, if you aren't going to join in, why worry about it one nano second longer? Move on.
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