Professional photography vs. "citizen journalism"

what so you are not buying equipment via doing a full time job - then working for free for somebody else part time? thats what you have said you are doing all along.....
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Your failure to be informed, does not make me a wacko.
John Loeffler.
equipment- lots of FulL FrAMe & whacky lenses.
 
Maybe I just dont like working for nothing. I draw a distiction
between working to produce saleable images for a media organisation
& giving them away for free, and producing images for myself.
I think you need a dictionary and look up Hobby.. It isn't working for nothing.. Its having a hobby.. Have you got a hobby?.. does anyone pay you for you hobby?

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http://www.kipax.com
 
I live in a small town of 4500. We have a single weekly paper which is locally owned and operated. For the last five years I've done pictures for them as the editor/photographer/owner can't be every where and I think I can contribute my photographs to support the local community. If it wasn't for me the local history society, genealogical society or friends of the Library might not get pictures of their events and meeting in the paper. I see this work as a social contribution to the health of a community. And some times I do get a bit of new when no one is around like this wild fire last new years day.



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'Giving a camera to Diane Arbus is like putting a live grenade in the hands of a child.'
Norman Mailer (b. 1923), U.S. author. Newsweek (New York, 22 Oct. 1984)
 
what so you are not buying equipment via doing a full time job -
then working for free for somebody else part time? thats what you
have said you are doing all along.....
Sorry but I aint working for anyone part time... I am persuing my hobby of taking photographs and I will supply them to newspapers and clubs and indivduals who want them and I will supply them for free because its...wait for it....my hobby! :)

You do understand the concept of a hobby yes?

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http://www.kipax.com
 
I have a hobby of scuba diving - I dont use money from my work of photography to go & buy diving equipment and then travel and spend my leisure time doing freebie maintainence on oil rigs & the like to put professional divers out of work.....I just go diving & look at pretty wrecks & fishes...
--
Your failure to be informed, does not make me a wacko.
John Loeffler.
equipment- lots of FulL FrAMe & whacky lenses.
 
I have a hobby of scuba diving - I dont use money from my work of
photography to go & buy diving equipment and then travel and spend
So how do you get the equipment or pay whatever you have to pay if not from work? if you can manage it for free then share and we can all have a go..

What if some guy comes along and tells you he wants to take people diving in that area .. guided underwater tours..whatever.. and he doesnt want them to see you diving for free.. your taking money out of his childrens mouth so stop diving..

Your arguing for the professional.. don't people get paid to write articles in papers and the like to make the same argument your making here for free... if your writing it all here for free what chance a writer getting paid for the same thing..

All stupid arguments arn't they... a bit like you suggesting I have put someone out of work eh :)

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http://www.kipax.com
 
lets see if we can take this puppy all the way to 150!
I have a hobby of scuba diving - I dont use money from my work of
photography to go & buy diving equipment and then travel and spend
So how do you get the equipment or pay whatever you have to pay if
not from work? if you can manage it for free then share and we can
all have a go..
 
tell you what give me you FT employers name, i'll offer to work for them a couple of days for free as a 'hobby', then they can stop paying you for a couple of days a week, then you'll need to start charging these media corps for pictures to make up the difference. Then your employer can start paying me, and hey presto we will have stopped devaluing each others professions by not working fo free.
--
Your failure to be informed, does not make me a wacko.
John Loeffler.
equipment- lots of FulL FrAMe & whacky lenses.
 
tell you what give me you FT employers name, i'll offer to work for
them a couple of days for free as a 'hobby', then they can stop
paying you for a couple of days a week, then you'll need to start
charging these media corps for pictures to make up the difference.
Then your employer can start paying me, and hey presto we will have
stopped devaluing each others professions by not working fo free.
First off you ahvent answered my question.. how do you pay for your hobby.. your having a go at me for using the money I earn from work so tell us how you manage it?

Second.. your post above... What world do you live in.. the work I do is worse than photography for people wantng to work for free.. they all want to build a portfolio and the only way they get work is to do freebies... Your having a laff mate... I do Perl and before PHP was invented everyone was having a go at it.. along comes php and there falling over themselves to do it for free... I adapted.. I got through it..

As far as making a point goes you fell flat on yer backside mate... believe me my area of work has been far worse than photography for it.. the difference is i understood... you just stick your head in the sand and cry about it

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http://www.kipax.com
 
And if I choose to do so, so what. I was one of the lead photographers for the 2006 Pan Massachusetts Challenge. Not counting my camera equipment it cost me about $500 out of my own pocket to drive up to Massachusetts from New Jersey, stay at a motel for two nights in Cape Cod, and had the time of my life. I did such a good job, but I admit I need to improve, that I have the same assignment next year. World doesn't owe you a living. Don't like it, tough.
There is a difference between Joe Public being in the right place
at the right time & getting his/her mobi pictures published, and
some guy working in another job to buy £1000's of camera equipment
etc & then working for free for the media, to make them money.
That's deliberately setting out to put other photographers out of
work.
--
Your failure to be informed, does not make me a wacko.
John Loeffler.
equipment- lots of FulL FrAMe & whacky lenses.
 
My dad, who use to work construction as a heavy equipment operator, frequently offered his services free to friends and family. In five years when I retire, I would love to put guys like you out of a job. If you want to stay employed, you better offer services that an employer wants, or look elsewhere for employment.
No but that's what you have done (put somebody out of work) because
you are doing something for free, that media organisations should
be paying for. None of them is going to stop you doing it & they
probably have come to rely on you doing it for free. Sure they
would have probably only have paid somebody £12-15 a shot for
covering some non league match in the rain. But that is the
principle that's been breeched by what you are doing, and now these
organisations are expecting everything to be supplied for free
because good natured but ultimately flawed individuals like
yourself are doing this as a 'hobby'. I can try & extrapolate this
to tother trades/professions - does a plumber work for free, does a
lawyer practice law for free or a s a hobby of course not. What you
are doing is ultimately cross subsidising from one employment (your
FT job) to another - your photo role - and this is putting somebody
out of work.
--
Your failure to be informed, does not make me a wacko.
John Loeffler.
equipment- lots of FulL FrAMe & whacky lenses.
 
Public Service Electric & Gas Company, Hope Creek Nuclear Generating Station, Maintenance Procedure Writer. Knock yourself out.
tell you what give me you FT employers name, i'll offer to work for
them a couple of days for free as a 'hobby', then they can stop
paying you for a couple of days a week, then you'll need to start
charging these media corps for pictures to make up the difference.
Then your employer can start paying me, and hey presto we will have
stopped devaluing each others professions by not working fo free.
--
Your failure to be informed, does not make me a wacko.
John Loeffler.
equipment- lots of FulL FrAMe & whacky lenses.
 
The citizen sending in "news" to the magazines has every right to
do so. I see no reason why your pro standing is a protected class.
Papers and magazines will get the pictures from any source they want.

Freelance pros establish themselves with any number of outlets. That is
your job to keep up to date and have those outlets that pay what you want.

What is happening locally is that new magazines come and go, but some
are good ideas that catch on locally. They need freelance images and, although
the pay per image is not great, the networking is the best. More commercial jobs
come from work with magazines than any other. So, it is nice to think that
freelance for news/magazines can be a 'living', you are right, it is being taken

over by 'citizen' freelancers. The trick today is to use that freelance to expand
a commercial business.

It is yet another transition in the business model that news/magazines are
taking advantage of the dslr user flood of new users. And, why shouldn't they?
Hello,

since many people frequenting this forum are professional
photographers, I wanted to share a link to an article just recently
posted on The Register, UK.

The article is written by a pro photographer taking photos for
newspapers, and he wants to fight against the recent trend of
newspapers looking for cheap "user contributed content" (think
mobile phone photos) under the pretext of making a service to the
readers.
 
..Shall we?

It is really this simple. There is hardly any threat to top pros even in the digital age. For it is more than a profession, it is a lifestyle choice. Mid level pros have ALWAYS been threatened by the weekend warrior or hobby types, nothing new. But this non-sense of doom and gloom is a bit over dramatized in my opinion. Like most things on this site, it is mostly hype. Any good pro knows he has to work hard in this day and age to keep a smooth and positive cash flow. 20 years ago, as a youth, I even saw this coming so I went for types of photography with both a high income level and a high enjoyment level. This has paid off in spades.

You see, this living is more than good images and marketing. It is about great customer service, something many hobby types just don't have the time to provide. My business has seen 40-100% growth per year over the last 4 years and is going strong. Part of this is that I no longer post my best on the web for all to see and steal, including the new "Walmart" in photography: Getty.

I keep things good and do very well with newspaper and editorial too, have a great agent. I can not tell you how many times I have shot a news event with a few amateurs vying to give pictures away for free and still beat them to the shot and gotten published. This happened last night as I was stuck in a blizzard in interstate 70 going to Denver. I planned it that way. If you work hard at keeping a good relationship with a news venue and conduct your self professionally, they value that. So they will often use your shot over the camera phone photo even if it is free.

Yes, some news organizations will use amateur photos, but that will never full replace the pro with proper ethics, proper AP style captions who conducts him self in a professional manner. If you are a pro who is feeling the pinch, I suggest you step it up a bit, luck is created with hard work, nothing less.

So to the hobby shooters who think they are making it hard on pros? Don't kid your self. The great photojournalists are still on top, you can not touch them. You may get your 15 minutes or 3 column inches of fame, but you will never, ever replace a really good pro. And let's face it, the really good ones are the one ones worth looking at.

As far as UK newspapers are concerned, there are not that many that are good if at all. I happen to get paid very well by them when I shoot for them here in the U.S., about twice a month. Maybe that is because I give them more than predictable posed stuff that often graces their pages? Who knows really.

So enjoy your hobby, but don't kid your self. You are only hurting your self and the pros who lack great talent.

I take care of my clients on many levels. It is because of this that my images will often be chosen over a freebie. A good newspaper or magazine knows it needs to take care of us good pros, or they will lose the truly professional caliber shooters.

Reality check over, have a happy new year folks!
 

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