The D30, its focusing screen, and you

Joe May · Feb 1, 2002

Okay, so after reading that mighty long thread about the D30's poor manual focusing capabilities and Lee's post on how to remove the screen, I tried it on my Rebel.

Turns out that removing the focusing screen is VERY easy if you are CAREFUL (the biggest risk I found was that it is possible for things like focus screens and their brackets to fall on the mirror) and take the time to observe how everything goes back together. Putting the screen back in is just as easy if you do it one piece at a time.

The Rebel, by the way, has a roof mirror insted of a prism like the D30 :-/ Too bad the D30 has the same crappy focus screen as the Rebel (frosted plastic... no ground glass in our $2300-3000 cameras)

Anyway, it's really a shame a third party doesn't step in here and make some really nice bright ground glass focusing screens with a circular split to aid focusing. I'm willing to bet they would make a good bit off of a bunch of disgruntled D30 users who want to be able to precisely manual focus when the AF just doesn't do it. Warantee...? Well, you could always snap the old one back in if you have to send it in for service.

Oh... that's right. I did end up taking out my D30's focusing screen just because I wanted to see if the D30 was actually using a real prism or some cheap mirrors. On second thought, I should have left it alone unless I had a reason to be up in there (and so should you... right?

, but it made me realize how easily the screen could be replaced if one could be found that would fit...

Joe

Ron Warren · Feb 1, 2002

....is exactly what it looks like to me through the view finder. What a shame!--Ron Warren

Mike Dobbs · Feb 1, 2002

There was a thread on this forum some months back that had a link to a site showing how to replace the D30 screen with another type (even stated where to get them). Try doing a search to find out the details.

Mike.

Joe May said:
Okay, so after reading that mighty long thread about the D30's poor
manual focusing capabilities and Lee's post on how to remove the
screen, I tried it on my Rebel.

Turns out that removing the focusing screen is VERY easy if you are
CAREFUL (the biggest risk I found was that it is possible for
things like focus screens and their brackets to fall on the mirror)
and take the time to observe how everything goes back together.
Putting the screen back in is just as easy if you do it one piece
at a time.

The Rebel, by the way, has a roof mirror insted of a prism like the
D30 :-/ Too bad the D30 has the same crappy focus screen as the
Rebel (frosted plastic... no ground glass in our $2300-3000 cameras)

Anyway, it's really a shame a third party doesn't step in here and
make some really nice bright ground glass focusing screens with a
circular split to aid focusing. I'm willing to bet they would make
a good bit off of a bunch of disgruntled D30 users who want to be
able to precisely manual focus when the AF just doesn't do it.
Warantee...? Well, you could always snap the old one back in if you
have to send it in for service.

Oh... that's right. I did end up taking out my D30's focusing
screen just because I wanted to see if the D30 was actually using a
real prism or some cheap mirrors. On second thought, I should have
left it alone unless I had a reason to be up in there (and so
should you... right? , but it made me realize how easily the
screen could be replaced if one could be found that would fit...

Joe

Mike Dobbs · Feb 1, 2002

Here's the thread, but the link to the DIY site no longer seems to work.

http://www.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1019&message=1593235

Mike.

Mike Dobbs said:
Mike.

Joe May said:

Okay, so after reading that mighty long thread about the D30's poor
manual focusing capabilities and Lee's post on how to remove the
screen, I tried it on my Rebel.

Turns out that removing the focusing screen is VERY easy if you are
CAREFUL (the biggest risk I found was that it is possible for
things like focus screens and their brackets to fall on the mirror)
and take the time to observe how everything goes back together.
Putting the screen back in is just as easy if you do it one piece
at a time.

The Rebel, by the way, has a roof mirror insted of a prism like the
D30 :-/ Too bad the D30 has the same crappy focus screen as the
Rebel (frosted plastic... no ground glass in our $2300-3000 cameras)

Anyway, it's really a shame a third party doesn't step in here and
make some really nice bright ground glass focusing screens with a
circular split to aid focusing. I'm willing to bet they would make
a good bit off of a bunch of disgruntled D30 users who want to be
able to precisely manual focus when the AF just doesn't do it.
Warantee...? Well, you could always snap the old one back in if you
have to send it in for service.

Oh... that's right. I did end up taking out my D30's focusing
screen just because I wanted to see if the D30 was actually using a
real prism or some cheap mirrors. On second thought, I should have
left it alone unless I had a reason to be up in there (and so
should you... right? , but it made me realize how easily the
screen could be replaced if one could be found that would fit...

Joe

Click to expand...

stripes · Feb 1, 2002

Joe May said:
Anyway, it's really a shame a third party doesn't step in here and
make some really nice bright ground glass focusing screens with a
circular split to aid focusing. I'm willing to bet they would make
a good bit off of a bunch of disgruntled D30 users who want to be
able to precisely manual focus when the AF just doesn't do it.
Warantee...? Well, you could always snap the old one back in if you
have to send it in for service.

According to http://www.brightscreen.com/newpage3.htm someone is (no real info on the page though).

I just got off the phone with them, their replacment is about a stop brighter, has crop markings for 8x10, but no micro prisams or split glass. They claimed the screne design for the D30 was diffrent enough from other stuff they had done that it was unlikely they would be doing a split or micro prisams in the future, but he didn't rule it out.

They charge $222 to take your camera, replace the screen and FedEx it back.

At least that's what I'm given to understand. I may have mangled it a bit in the translation.

So to me it sounds better then the existing screen, but not like a super improvment.

Andrew Grant27981 · Feb 1, 2002

stripes said:
According to http://www.brightscreen.com/newpage3.htm someone is
(no real info on the page though).

I just got off the phone with them, their replacment is about a
stop brighter, has crop markings for 8x10, but no micro prisams or
split glass. They claimed the screne design for the D30 was
diffrent enough from other stuff they had done that it was unlikely
they would be doing a split or micro prisams in the future, but he
didn't rule it out.

They charge $222 to take your camera, replace the screen and FedEx
it back.

At least that's what I'm given to understand. I may have mangled
it a bit in the translation.

So to me it sounds better then the existing screen, but not like a
super improvment.

What about grid markings?

Joe May · Feb 1, 2002

Interesting. I will check them out. I wonder if it would be cheaper for them to just send me the screen. Replacing it myself is no big deal. Despite being a 'fixed' screen, it is easily removable and replacable.

THanks for the info!

Joe

Member said:
According to http://www.brightscreen.com/newpage3.htm someone is
(no real info on the page though).

I just got off the phone with them, their replacment is about a
stop brighter, has crop markings for 8x10, but no micro prisams or
split glass. They claimed the screne design for the D30 was
diffrent enough from other stuff they had done that it was unlikely
they would be doing a split or micro prisams in the future, but he
didn't rule it out.

They charge $222 to take your camera, replace the screen and FedEx
it back.

At least that's what I'm given to understand. I may have mangled
it a bit in the translation.

So to me it sounds better then the existing screen, but not like a
super improvment.

John Foote · Feb 1, 2002

Joe May said:
Interesting. I will check them out. I wonder if it would be cheaper
for them to just send me the screen. Replacing it myself is no big
deal. Despite being a 'fixed' screen, it is easily removable and
replacable.

THanks for the info!

Joe

Could be a tidy little part time business, Joe. D30's and their plastic focus screens are going to be knocking around for a long time. While you're in there, see what you can do about the AF, will ya? John

Joe May · Feb 1, 2002

Haha... I don't think that's a responsibility I'd want to take myself. But basically, the screen is helf in by a wire tension bracket. You push the tab out of the little slot, and the bracket comes out, as well as the focus screen and the frame plate behind it. To put it back together, just put them back in the reverse way, paying attention to which tabs go where, and you are in business. You just have to be careful not to let any of these things fall on the mirror, or you're screwed if it gets scratched. The screen itself could be replaced a WHOLE lot easier (and cheaper) than the mirror, so I think that's the biggest danger.

As for the AF... yeah, I'll fix that. It'll cost you $5500 though ;-)

Joe

Member said:
Could be a tidy little part time business, Joe. D30's and their
plastic focus screens are going to be knocking around for a long
time. While you're in there, see what you can do about the AF, will
ya? John

Joe May · Feb 1, 2002

Thanks a lot for the info Mike. I checked out Brightscreens and they do indeed claim to have a D30 screen available, but no details just yet. Guess we'll have to wait and see. It would be really nice though if they made a split screen with microprisms that was nice and bright. That would be worth a bit of money to me... and it would certainly add longevity to my D30's life since there's be a REAL alternative to AF when the light gets low... The D60 may not be so tempting with that little nusience out of the way

Joe

Mike Dobbs said:
Here's the thread, but the link to the DIY site no longer seems to
work.

http://www.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1019&message=1593235

Michael Thomas Mitchell65870 · Feb 1, 2002

First, let me say I absolutely detest the 'D60' rumor threads and have participated considerably less in the forum as they dominate the topics. However, I'll just offer the possibility that since a successor to the D30 -- whatever and whenever -- is a forgone conclusion, we may wish to consider and/or hope that Canon will see fit to equip it with a "proper" focusing screen. Provided the screen is the same size (plausible, if the D30's successor uses the same body design, which I doubt Canon would abandon), then the screen would be available to D30 users as a replacement part.

M

Joe May · Feb 1, 2002

Just my guess, but it seems to me that Canon uses el cheapo focusing screens in all but its very best cameras (read: the 1 series and the EOS 3)... I doubt a successor to the D30 would have a real ground glass screen with circular split and microprisms along with being nice and bright.

I haven't participated in any of those threads and it's not something I care to worry about despite my curiousity (I just purchased my D30 the end of December 2001)... I just wish there was a real MF option on the D30 for when the AF craps out. I've used old MF cameras and I really liked their viewfinders. Modern SLRs for the most part have taken a step backwards in that respect since the advent of autofocus. One more corner to cut. They just can't get away with it on their pro cameras. I don't think they should have on the D30 either, considering how much it costs (even the refurbs are selling for what a grey market 1v would sell for, but most of us paid up to $3000...) and the poor AF performance.

Joe

Michael Thomas Mitchell said:
First, let me say I absolutely detest the 'D60' rumor threads and
have participated considerably less in the forum as they dominate
the topics. However, I'll just offer the possibility that since a
successor to the D30 -- whatever and whenever -- is a forgone
conclusion, we may wish to consider and/or hope that Canon will see
fit to equip it with a "proper" focusing screen. Provided the
screen is the same size (plausible, if the D30's successor uses the
same body design, which I doubt Canon would abandon), then the
screen would be available to D30 users as a replacement part.

M

Joe May · Feb 1, 2002

I e-mailed them and got a prompt reply:

"The only current offering we have for the D30 is a factory style screen processed with our optical increase in brightness, with two new lines which indicate 8x10 format cropping from within the 8x12 format you currently see.

Split images with microprism may be offered sometime in the far future.

http://www.brightscreen.com
800 235-2451"

sigh What's the point of spending $222 on a new screen if it doesn't even have focus aids- the very thing we really need...

I guess this is a lost cause. It's really too bad.

Joe

stripes said:
According to http://www.brightscreen.com/newpage3.htm someone is
(no real info on the page though).

I just got off the phone with them, their replacment is about a
stop brighter, has crop markings for 8x10, but no micro prisams or
split glass. They claimed the screne design for the D30 was
diffrent enough from other stuff they had done that it was unlikely
they would be doing a split or micro prisams in the future, but he
didn't rule it out.

They charge $222 to take your camera, replace the screen and FedEx
it back.

At least that's what I'm given to understand. I may have mangled
it a bit in the translation.

So to me it sounds better then the existing screen, but not like a
super improvment.

Steven Wells · Feb 1, 2002

Are the interchangeable screens from the 1 series larger or smaller? If larger, could they be milled or cut/trimmed to fit the D-30? Definitely not for the do it yourselfer at home, but someone or some company will have the proper equipment to do the job.

Steve Wells

Joe May · Feb 1, 2002

Focus screens from full frame 35mm cameras are larger...

the only problem with that is that they wouldn't be etched with the focus points calibrated to where they are in the actual D30.

It would take some precision tools to do for sure, and you'd have to know how to work with glass and something about the properties of focusing screens, plus the nerve to do the job even though you may end up with a worthless $200 screen. Quite a bit out of my league unfortunately.

Brightscreens say they have the tools and manufacturer their own screens... I wonder what the big problem is with making a custom one for the D30...

Joe

Steve Wells said:
Are the interchangeable screens from the 1 series larger or
smaller? If larger, could they be milled or cut/trimmed to fit the
D-30? Definitely not for the do it yourselfer at home, but someone
or some company will have the proper equipment to do the job.

Steve Wells

Lee Rothman · Feb 1, 2002

How's about if a former engineer that worked on the D30 R&D team comes up with the original chip used in autofocus and successfully used for high speed shooting at the Sydney Olympics, before they "neutered" it to comply with the Kodak agreement, and this engineer get's together with a 3rd party to produce a relatively easily replaced chip to be produced and installed for a reasonable price (say $200 parts and labor). Man would that ever kill the D60 sales. LOL

. This kind of reverse engineering goes on all the time in the communications receiver market. Why not cameras?

Michael Eckstein · Feb 1, 2002

I just got email from Bright screen and they have a replacement (brighter) screen for the D30 which they install. Here's their email to me:

The only current offering we have for the D30 is a factory style screen
processed with our optical increase in brightness, with two new lines which
indicate 8x10 format cropping from within the 8x12 format you currently see.

Split images with microprism may be offered sometime in the far future.

These must be installed / exchanged by us as the D30 was not built to be
user interchangeable. Our current turnaround time is 1 to 4 working days
depending on our work schedule and load.

http://www.brightscreen.com
800 235-2451

Joe May · Feb 1, 2002

I think Canon/Nikon/ would be out for blood if that happened ;-) It's really too bad though.

In the computer world, people are voiding their warantees all the time with hairbrained mods to their equipment. But I guess a $3000 camera is a little different from a $300 video card, eh?

Joe

Lee Rothman said:
How's about if a former engineer that worked on the D30 R&D team
comes up with the original chip used in autofocus and successfully
used for high speed shooting at the Sydney Olympics, before they
"neutered" it to comply with the Kodak agreement, and this engineer
get's together with a 3rd party to produce a relatively easily
replaced chip to be produced and installed for a reasonable price
(say $200 parts and labor). Man would that ever kill the D60 sales.
LOL . This kind of reverse engineering goes on all the time in
the communications receiver market. Why not cameras?

Joe May · Feb 1, 2002

Mike, that's almost what they told me verbatim. It's really unfortunate... I don't see what the big problem is with making a custom D30 screen. They'd make a lot of D30 users happy... that' for sure.

Joe

Mike Eckstein said:
I just got email from Bright screen and they have a replacement
(brighter) screen for the D30 which they install. Here's their
email to me:

The only current offering we have for the D30 is a factory style
screen
processed with our optical increase in brightness, with two new
lines which
indicate 8x10 format cropping from within the 8x12 format you
currently see.

Split images with microprism may be offered sometime in the far
future.

These must be installed / exchanged by us as the D30 was not built
to be
user interchangeable. Our current turnaround time is 1 to 4 working
days
depending on our work schedule and load.

http://www.brightscreen.com
800 235-2451

Anders Jelveus · Feb 1, 2002

E-mail Bright Screen and ask them to make one.

The more interest they see we have, they might just realize that there actually is a pretty big market of serious D-30 owners. This especially since many seem to keep the camera as a backup after uppgrading.

I have allready e-mailed them my request. The market is strongly based on demand, so it is worth the effort to try.

Sincerely

Anders Jelveus

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