Why the Nikon D40 "doesn't deserve" your attention.

  • Thread starter Thread starter Barry Fitzgerald
  • Start date Start date
Darn, if you don't make sense!!! I think those that are griping the
most are 1) People who own 'other' brands (I won't mention
Canonite, in particular) who feel the need to disparage out of fear
that Nikon just might gain Market Share, 2) Nikonians who simply
want a Canon killer, 3) Those who simply don't have a clue.
Darlene, I think you hit the proverbial 'nail on the head'.
--
shinndigg
Or those who think it should be brought to people's attention in
the fact that they are getting hooked into a nasty little nikon
ploy!

Consumer protection....that is the name of the game..

--

I don't agree with you Barry..... completely. But, that is generally what corporations do, try their best to lock the customer in. I DO think that many P&Sers will be quite happy with 1 or 2 lenses. Heck, I only have 2 for my Olympus, and MAY get a 50 1.whatever for it in the future. Like irony? I purchased a 50 1.8 for my D50 to see if I like shooting portaits with it. BUT, I am more serious about photography, would like to do it professionaly eventually. So, I don't fit into (what I think is) the intended market.
--
shinndigg
 
And IMHO that the brilliancy in this new Nikon. With one slap they eliminated most all competition in the lenses.

If D40 succeeds I expect there will be more this sort of cameras in future.
Call me a sceptic, but this smells like a ploy to sell Nikon lenses..
ALL interchangeable lens cameras are a ploy to sell lenses, aren't
they?

You might as well say, "Cameras are a ploy to get people taking
pictures!!"
--
Regards,
Baz
 
Would it be so difficult for Sigma and Tamron to make lenses for the Nikon mount without the pin drive? They make them for Canon already.
 
Would it be so difficult for Sigma and Tamron to make lenses for
the Nikon mount without the pin drive? They make them for Canon
already.
nope! but you can bet they will cost more...thus failiing to appeal to the intended budget consumer..

Nikon think they are being clever...in reality they are rather stupid....
--

 
I thin knowadays most [all?] shops sell Tamron and Sigma for the same price, irrespective of mount. This used to be different, Canon mount was more expensive. Maybe someone (producer or retailer] at the moment is making a litte bit more [some ten-twenty bucks] on the lenses for Nikon mount?
Would it be so difficult for Sigma and Tamron to make lenses for
the Nikon mount without the pin drive? They make them for Canon
already.
nope! but you can bet they will cost more...thus failiing to appeal
to the intended budget consumer..
 
Although, are the Sigma 17-70
2.8-4.0 or the 0Tamaron 17-50 2.8 USM lenses?
They are lenses that won't AF on the D40.
Are you sure about the Tamaron? I think it is USM, not pin driven.
It's Tamron, not Tamaron (but as a Oly user you are excused for not
knowing.) No, only Sigma HSM will AF on the D40, but most of them
are (again!) very pricey.
I think not. That's why they would like to use (with AF) a cheap
50/1.8
Again, the intended market will probably be more interested in zoom
lenses, not portrait lenses, which the 50 1.8 clearly is. We're
talking about a vacation camera.
Since when? For vacation, people often like something with good
zoom reach that's pocketable, like e.g. the TZ1. A stronger drive
towards DSLR would be low light action, like their kids playing
or sporting indoors.
Aren't you talking about JPG settings now? I talked about raw.
Have you checked out the D40 at ALL???
I've read three reviews, wasn't available in the store last week.
Are you saying raw NR is adjustable??? Link?
than a bridge camera with IS (a better option for some of them I
would dare say!).
With their EXTREME noise reduction and EXTREME loss in detail,
compared to DSLRs.
1) There is no NR if you shoot raw (e.g. FZ30 or 50)
2) Don't forget we are comparing iso200-400 to iso3200
Apples to apples, therefore iso 100-400 to 100-400, although the
D40 at ISO 1600-3200 would STILL be better than those bridge
cameras at iso 400.
Actually, you'd need five stops better iso to compensate for 3 stops
OIS and two stops slower lens. Issue here (this subthread) was
handholdability. Full stop.
There are still *istDL2's to be found and E-500's at lower prices.
I wasw talking about local prices, not grey market.
They are available in Europe anyway.
The D40 has more features than the K110D, though not many more.
The K110D has 11 AF points (vs 3) and a lens compatibility that runs
circles around the D40. So which has more features is debatable.
Dlighting cmes to mind. I guess 21 AF-S lenses aren't enough.
Did you count the €10,000 ones too? There is ONE (1) extra Nikon
AF-S lens as affordable as the kit lens. Count 3 more sub €500.
Yes, I've checked that out also....
You forgot to check the prices.
Oh, and that's just Nikon lenses. It doesn't include Sigma,
Only HSM will AF. Again, did you check prices? Only three are
below €400, of those the 30/1.4 seems most interesting, but
it's still 3-4 times the price of a 50/1.8.
Tamaron, etc...
Tamron won't AF.
PMA is in March, right? So, IF the price drops, as they usually do
(the XTi dropped 10% in 2 WEEKS!!), to , say $500-$550 usd, the
MUCH better IQ of a DSLR.
Don't forget my pont was hand holdability. With iso pressed to max,
IQ suffers.
Funny how you 'change the rules' after the fact, and focus on ONE
thing.
You should read the posts you reply to before replying, would save you
some embarrassment. You entered this little subthread by replying to
my post where I wrote:
"And then, with those two slow, unstabilised lenses, they will need
more light to handhold the camera (for equal noise level) than a
bridge camera with IS (a better option for some of them I
would dare say!). "

Just my two oere
Erik from Sweden
 
Although, are the Sigma 17-70
2.8-4.0 or the 0Tamaron 17-50 2.8 USM lenses?
They are lenses that won't AF on the D40.
Are you sure about the Tamaron? I think it is USM, not pin driven.
It's Tamron, not Tamaron (but as a Oly user you are excused for not
knowing.)
Oooppss! PLEASE forgive me for a typo!
No, only Sigma HSM will AF on the D40, but most of them
are (again!) very pricey.
There's that 'rule changing' again. The point is lens availabliity. And there are lenses available.
I think not. That's why they would like to use (with AF) a cheap
50/1.8
Again, the intended market will probably be more interested in zoom
lenses, not portrait lenses, which the 50 1.8 clearly is. We're
talking about a vacation camera.
Since when? For vacation, people often like something with good
zoom reach that's pocketable, like e.g. the TZ1. A stronger drive
towards DSLR would be low light action, like their kids playing
or sporting indoors.
Funny, I rarely see primes in camera stores, by far the majority are zooms. generally, if one wants prime lenses, one has to prepay and order them. Also, I take note of what others use whilst on vacation, and truth be told, maybe 5-10% of other photogs use primes. So I don't agree with you, as I don't see very many being used. Sounds like you have to come up with BS just to bash a camera (brand) you don't like and haven't even handled.
Aren't you talking about JPG settings now? I talked about raw.
Have you checked out the D40 at ALL???
I've read three reviews, wasn't available in the store last week.
Are you saying raw NR is adjustable??? Link?
No need for a link, I HANDLED the camera and, GASP, took pictures with it. That's what photogs do!.
than a bridge camera with IS (a better option for some of them I
would dare say!).
With their EXTREME noise reduction and EXTREME loss in detail,
compared to DSLRs.
1) There is no NR if you shoot raw (e.g. FZ30 or 50)
2) Don't forget we are comparing iso200-400 to iso3200
Apples to apples, therefore iso 100-400 to 100-400, although the
D40 at ISO 1600-3200 would STILL be better than those bridge
cameras at iso 400.
Actually, you'd need five stops better iso to compensate for 3 stops
OIS and two stops slower lens. Issue here (this subthread) was
handholdability. Full stop.Utter nonsense!
There are still *istDL2's to be found and E-500's at lower prices.
I wasw talking about local prices, not grey market.
They are available in Europe anyway.Oh yeah, the DL2 isn't available in the US.
The D40 has more features than the K110D, though not many more.
The K110D has 11 AF points (vs 3) and a lens compatibility that runs
circles around the D40. So which has more features is debatable.
Dlighting cmes to mind. I guess 21 AF-S lenses aren't enough.
Did you count the €10,000 ones too? There is ONE (1) extra Nikon
AF-S lens as affordable as the kit lens. Count 3 more sub €500.
Laughable! Hah!
Yes, I've checked that out also....
You forgot to check the prices.
Maybe things are more expensive in Europe, I don't know.
Oh, and that's just Nikon lenses. It doesn't include Sigma,
Only HSM will AF. Again, did you check prices? Only three are
below €400, of those the 30/1.4 seems most interesting, but
it's still 3-4 times the price of a 50/1.8.
See above, about THE INTENDED MARKET not using primes.
Tamaron, etc...
Tamron won't AF.
PMA is in March, right? So, IF the price drops, as they usually do
(the XTi dropped 10% in 2 WEEKS!!), to , say $500-$550 usd, the
MUCH better IQ of a DSLR.
Don't forget my pont was hand holdability. With iso pressed to max,
IQ suffers.
Funny how you 'change the rules' after the fact, and focus on ONE
thing.
You should read the posts you reply to before replying, would save you
some embarrassment. You entered this little subthread by replying to
my post where I wrote:
"And then, with those two slow, unstabilised lenses, they will need
more light to handhold the camera (for equal noise level) than a
bridge camera with IS (a better option for some of them I
would dare say!). "
You have your (narrow) point, I hae my (broader) point.
Just my two oere
Erik from Sweden
Just my 2 pence.
--
shinndigg
 
Hello there ... I just saw your post on the Nikon D40. My question is NOT a response to your email, but rather How do I post a message on this board ?
 
Would it be so difficult for Sigma and Tamron to make lenses for
the Nikon mount without the pin drive? They make them for Canon
already.
Of course not. I should have added this "advantage" for Nikon is only temporary.

But design a single lens takes time. I do not know if the Nikon mount variant as today have space for a motor. If not they are new design and will come out max a couple of lenses per year. And it's a good question is they ever seen need to redesign their old lenses. At least not before there are more than this one Nikon dSLR to require those.

But the same "design takes time" apply also to Nikon old design, so in this respect the situation is fair - unless Nikon has made some "preplanning" for some time already. And equally good question is if Nikon want so redesign their old lenses or produce anything similar new - as long as there is only one Nikon dSLR model requiring those.

For the 3rd parties, if the body structure in Nikon and Canon versions of the lenses are the same, it may even be a relatively simple matter to add the motor and electronics there. That is if they see enough business to compensate the R&D effort.
 
Are you sure about the Tamaron? I think it is USM, not pin driven.
It's Tamron, not Tamaron (but as a Oly user you are excused for not
knowing.)
Oooppss! PLEASE forgive me for a typo!
You did it twice in that post so I thought it might have been more than
a typo.
No, only Sigma HSM will AF on the D40, but most of them
are (again!) very pricey.
There's that 'rule changing' again.
Rule?

I started by making one particular point about the D40.
You had to jump in and (incorrectly) say "Not slow", "Not true".

If you had written: you are right, the D40 will be worse for handheld
photography sometimes, but it's better for action, we would be
in harmonic agreement.
The point is lens availabliity. And there are lenses available.
Heh, do you recall writing:

"Another question: are those this camera aimed at interested in lenses that cost twice the kit price?"

So you yourself brought up to point of lens prices. :-)
And of course price is relevant for the target D40 buyer.
I think not. That's why they would like to use (with AF) a cheap
50/1.8
Again, the intended market will probably be more interested in zoom
lenses, not portrait lenses, which the 50 1.8 clearly is. We're
talking about a vacation camera.
Since when? For vacation, people often like something with good
zoom reach that's pocketable, like e.g. the TZ1. A stronger drive
towards DSLR would be low light action, like their kids playing
or sporting indoors.
Funny, I rarely see primes in camera stores, by far the majority
are zooms.
Ok, a good point at last.
Personally, I look on the net, on ebay, etc. but the typical D40 buyer
might not.

But that still doesn't make the D40 the perfect travel camera
(dust issues!) unless you stick to the kit (limited range, CAs) or
the 18-200VR (price, hard to find).
generally, if one wants prime lenses, one has to prepay
and order them. Also, I take note of what others use whilst on
vacation, and truth be told, maybe 5-10% of other photogs use
primes. So I don't agree with you, as I don't see very many being
used. Sounds like you have to come up with BS just to bash a camera
(brand) you don't like and haven't even handled.
I never commented on the handling now, did I?
And I'm not hating the Nikon brand, I've even written posts defending
their encryption of WB in raw and praising their AF. But I don't like the
proprietary lock-in that comes with the D40, just as I don't like
proprietary tricks like MemSticks, XD cards etc.

Actually I've seen quite a few Nikon users (with non-AF-S lenses I assume)
who share my worry about the trend the D40 is setting.
Are you saying raw NR is adjustable??? Link?
No need for a link, I HANDLED the camera and, GASP, took pictures
with it. That's what photogs do!.
Again you haven't thought this one through. Noise reduction in raw is
a subtle effect which is only seen in careful pixel peeping and still far
from obvious.

Just my two oere
Erik from Sweden
 
I don't have time to read and reply to everything in this thread. Some of the people here actually have knowledge of the Nikon system and have legitimate reasons they do or don't like the D40.

The majority of you don't even know basic terminology much less which piece of gear does what and are complaining or parroting that you hear based upon a total lack of knowledge.

Some time ago I would post in this forum from time to time. Usually I avoid it now because of threads like this. A bunch of folks wanting to argue the things they have not a clue about. This forum is the biggest joke of all at this web site. Have fun discussing the future of the Nikon system.
--
This space for rent.
 
I started by making one particular point about the D40.
You had to jump in and (incorrectly) say "Not slow", "Not true".
And I see you took offense. So sorry.
If you had written: you are right, the D40 will be worse for handheld
photography sometimes, but it's better for action, we would be
in harmonic agreement.
And am I correct in assuming that you mean, per your original post that a bridge camera with IS is better? Say the Panny line of FZs? Or the Canon line of SIS's? Then noise becomes a big issue, as well as, yes, low light/high iso. I would STILL most likely take the D40, if those are my alternatives. But, that's just ME speaking for me. For an experienced photog, I agree with you on many points, but, for the newbie, I thnk the D40 has a LOT of appeal, as does the K110/100D, the Oly E500 (my personal favorite among these), and the (more expensive) Canon 350D. But, as I stated, the price of the D40 wil drop after the new year, so, it may have more appeall than those cameras.
The point is lens availabliity. And there are lenses available.
Heh, do you recall writing:
"Another question: are those this camera aimed at interested in
lenses that cost twice the kit price?"
Yet there are still less expensive alternatives available, and, no doubt, Sigma, Tokina and TamAron will provide even more alternatives at more attractive price points. Nikon is just too big of a player to be ignored.
So you yourself brought up to point of lens prices. :-)
And of course price is relevant for the target D40 buyer.
See above.
I think not. That's why they would like to use (with AF) a cheap
50/1.8
Again, the intended market will probably be more interested in zoom
lenses, not portrait lenses, which the 50 1.8 clearly is. We're
talking about a vacation camera.
Since when? For vacation, people often like something with good
zoom reach that's pocketable, like e.g. the TZ1. A stronger drive
towards DSLR would be low light action, like their kids playing
or sporting indoors.
Funny, I rarely see primes in camera stores, by far the majority
are zooms.
Ok, a good point at last.
Personally, I look on the net, on ebay, etc. but the typical D40 buyer
might not.
And you appear to be a more experienced photog, not in the intended market.
But that still doesn't make the D40 the perfect travel camera
(dust issues!) unless you stick to the kit (limited range, CAs) or
the 18-200VR (price, hard to find).
And those generally speaking are issues for many lenses, except for the much more exepensive options.
generally, if one wants prime lenses, one has to prepay
and order them. Also, I take note of what others use whilst on
vacation, and truth be told, maybe 5-10% of other photogs use
primes. So I don't agree with you, as I don't see very many being
used. Sounds like you have to come up with BS just to bash a camera
(brand) you don't like and haven't even handled.
I never commented on the handling now, did I?
And I'm not hating the Nikon brand, I've even written posts defending
their encryption of WB in raw
Which we will disagree upon, but I digress.
and praising their AF. But I don't
like the
proprietary lock-in that comes with the D40, just as I don't like
proprietary tricks like MemSticks, XD cards etc.

Actually I've seen quite a few Nikon users (with non-AF-S lenses I
assume)
who share my worry about the trend the D40 is setting.
Same trend Minolta and Canon set many years before. Nothing new. I, PERSONALLY, don't agree with it, but there are alternatives, many inexpensive.
Are you saying raw NR is adjustable??? Link?
No need for a link, I HANDLED the camera and, GASP, took pictures
with it. That's what photogs do!.
Again you haven't thought this one through. Noise reduction in raw is
a subtle effect which is only seen in careful pixel peeping and
still far
from obvious.
Like Canon doesn't do noise reduction at the CHIP level? Point being, noise isn't an issue, except for the pixel peeping crowd, of one it appears you are a member.
Just my two oere
Erik from Sweden
Just my two... whatever.
--
shinndigg
 
I haven't read all the messages for this thread, and I guess I'm happy
that I am entering into the thread torwards the end (it will be at
150 pretty soon).

But isn't this a bit like the outrage that happened 15 or so years ago
when Canon abandoned the FD lens line, and went EF ?

That is to say, "EF", as in "Electronic Focus", and not some mechancial
system.

Not to say that Nikon is abandoning anything, but still, less expense
there for Canon in manufacturing, and warranty service as well.

Nikon never incurred the outrage of their existing lens owners, but
still, they were obligated to include the motor in every SLR they
made.

Up until they dared to do this... now, 15 years later.
 
I started by making one particular point about the D40.
You had to jump in and (incorrectly) say "Not slow", "Not true".
And I see you took offense. So sorry.
Maybe I was a bit grumpy, I felt you were deliberately misunderstanding
or twistng the issue but your post seems sincere and I apologise too.
And am I correct in assuming that you mean, per your original post
that a bridge camera with IS is better? Say the Panny line of FZs?
Or the Canon line of SIS's? Then noise becomes a big issue, as well
as, yes, low light/high iso.
I was, I guess, making a point about slow kit lenses and the drawback
of being limited to those by giving an example of a particular situation
(hand shake being limiting factor).

If we have a sufficiently static scene,
the D40 + 55-200 at 200mm wide open i.e. f5.6 and
a handheld shutter speed of 1/300s iso 3200 on the one hand

and the S3 IS at f3.4, 300mm (equiv.) 1/40s iso 160 on the other,
we have the same exposure, the same high hit rate of sharp photos.

Then I think you agree that the S3 will look less noisy at about iso160
than the D40 at iso 3200.
I would STILL most likely take the
D40, if those are my alternatives.
Bring a tripod and you are fine.
Yet there are still less expensive alternatives available, and, no
doubt, Sigma, Tokina and TamAron
8-) Hey, I like your humour! I had a simple Tamron zoom as my
fav. lens on my SLR as a teenager in the 80's so I guess I still
have a soft spot for them.
will provide even more alternatives at more attractive price
points. Nikon is just too big of a player to be ignored.
Well, it's been my impression that those players often are
not moving fast. And even if Nikon have 35% now and will perhaps
grow a bit more, the D40 isn't their only well selling DSLR and at
PMA there may be even more competition in the D40 price class
so we'll see just how much it will sell in the long run.

If all those are right, who claim the typical D40 buyer wouldn't
even know what a 3rd party lens is if it dropped in their lap,
and that their lens budget if existing at all is small, then
the question is how profitable it is for the 3rd party players to
rush anything here.

Eventually it will come of course, particularly if the D40 is indicative
of the path Nikon will follow in the future, but maybe the D40 will
be old by the time a versatile set of affordable auto-focusing
lenses are available.
Like Canon doesn't do noise reduction at the CHIP level? Point
being, noise isn't an issue, except for the pixel peeping crowd, of
one it appears you are a member.
Ok, I confess. :-) But many others are worse.

Just my two oere
Erik from Sweden
 
Erik,

thought you might like to know, I checked out (again) the D40 at a local camera shop Saturday and they had a couple of Sigma HSM lenses, the 30mm 1.4 and the 70-200 2.8. They work just fine on the D40. Don't remember the exact prices, but I believe the 30 1.4 is comparable to others in this range.

--
shinndigg
 
Call me a sceptic, but this smells like a ploy to sell Nikon lenses..
Forgive me ... I didn't bother to read all the posts in this thread. I am sure they are interesting ... but thought, I would share my reaction to your post. This is a successful business model. Sell the razor at cost or less than cost ... sell the blades and make money. Sell the printer at cost, or less than cost ... and make a fortune on cartridges. Sell a camera body .... and ...
Warm Regards
Karl
Karl H. Timmerman M.A.J.D.
http://www.karltimmerman.com/ramblings.html
http://www.karltimmerman.com
'The best part of taking the moral highground ...... is the view'.
 
For a long time I liked taking the Fuji F11 I bought (after I sold the Fuji F10) to parties and taking pictures with no flash. After a while, I realized that without flash the Fuji F11 was really not good for indoor shots of people. I mean yes candid shots with no flash are possible, but they are not great shots.

The Panasonic FZ30 is my camera for birds and planes.

The Canon G7 is great but not for low light. It is heavy and hard to hold, but pocketable enough to get away with a take me along attitude.

I just ordered the Fuji F31 and plan to sell the Fuji F11.

I've been reading posts here at dpreview for months. I even had the Canon XTi all worked out and ready to buy.

But one visit to the store and the Nikon D40 was just so cute and irresistible. I bought it on looks. I bought it on weight. I bought it on price. I asked if they had it in stock at Best Buy and it already was out of stock. Circuit City had three left. As I bought it in 4 minutes, three salespeople came to me and said "that is a great camera." I could not believe that. The salespeople had it staked out. The VF was great, better than the XTi. It uses SD cards, I hate the big cards. It weighs much less than the Panasonic FZ30! And it is smaller!

I also loved the lens the D40 came with.

The next day after buying it I bought the 55-200mm. That lens is also very small and feather weight, like the 18-55 kit lens. And it is $ 170.

I have a Sigma 30mm 1.4 1 pound monster on order. I can't believe I paid $ 599 + 170 + 370 based on looks. I could not stop myself.

Though I consider myself lucky not to have seen the E-400.

I guess I am a small DSLR buyer. Somehow the $ 599 for the D40 was like "its free."

I never see DSLRs in restaurants or on the street. At the camera store, they don't let you play with them, I've visited Wolf Camera 12 times and not once did they offer me to change a lens. They do not have SD or memory cards in the cameras. The cameras are not charged. So the store is really a terrible learning/trial experience.

And at a party I saw the photographer holding a D200 and a Canon 1D with some huge 2.8 zooms and flash. He was holding at least 20 pounds on his neck. The straps were digging into his suit.

When I saw the weightless D40 and lens, I could not stop myself from buying it. I have no doubt whatsoever that Nikon will sell all of its D40s and that it will be a huge best seller. 55-200 lens sales will also take off. Now I have lens fever. The 18-200VR is my next lens. The $ 599 has become $ 2000. I am hooked.

I can see how in the next 12 months I will spend $ 3000 on Nikon stuff. Hooking with the camera is very smart. And the D40 is getting great reviews on picture quality, high ISO, quiet shutter.

Here is how seductive the D40 is:

"I prefer my D40 over my D70 and the D50. I grab my D40 instead of grabbing my D70 every time. Heck, The D40 is so much fun and so light I rarely grab my D80 or D200 either, unless I'm doing something really serious. I'd suggest getting a D40."

That is from http://www.kenrockwell.com/nikon/d40/d40-recommendations.htm
 
Call me a sceptic, but this smells like a ploy to sell Nikon lenses..
haha i won't call you a sceptic but you are a moron. Why the F#&K do you think nikon make cameras? to help sigma and tamron sell lenses? why is it that your annoying comments and posts come up about all these cameras you don't own or have no intention of owning. I'm sick of reading about how your dinosaur KM5 or whatever it's called is better than everything else available. Everytime i read one of your posts about another camera i always find "deal breaker" in there somewhere. If you're camera is so perfect why don't you go and use it to put some decent photos on your photobucket account.
--
http://www.flickr.com/photos/brettinjapan
 
Nikon have always been a bit cagey, this is anothere example. So be it, here are those in life that enjoy a slap in the face or two here is another chance via Nikon.

A pity they showed pontential in looking after their customer base until they started playing "Wasn't Us" with the banding on the images.
--
http://www.etrouko.com
 

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