Okay, I don't want to make enemies but...

aspherix said:

©azil said:

I have a question, and it is purely that, a question. I am truly
not trying to incite a riot.

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But to write off the budget I spended on my 6900Z I also expected
to "buy" a company who takes care about his customer.
I will not buy the 602, not because I don't like it, or so, but
after many years I will buy another camera. Will it be a Fuji ????
This purely depends on the behaviour of Fuji...... if they can keep
me happy all those years when something goes wrong, or not.

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I too feel this way.

Dirk S. said:

Unfortunately the modern marketing doesn't follow my conservative
thinking.... OR : the modern marketing has still to discover the
"modern" customer" who HAS to buy a lot of expensive things (e.g. :
PC's , DiigCam's, VideoCam's, the software for it..., a nice car,
fancy GSM's for all the kids, and a house for his family..., pay
the university for the kids and travel to exotic countries... with
the kids ) but can't afford to buy them all, and renew them
al, and pay them all on the same five or ten years.....

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I think there are various types of consumer in each market, for example kids have to have the latest mobile phone with all the tricks, their parents might just prefer one that looks and works ... "like a phone". PS I know what you mean about other committments..

Dirk S. said:

I think that a good after sales service is a must to keep "modern"
customers happy. I think that this good after sales service can do
two things : the happy customer tells to other people that he is
"still" happy with the brand name he bought. He will consider this
brandname in the first place when he has to buy something new to
be... modern.
Am I rigth ? Who knows ?

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Yes Skitch you are and I would be most surpised if the camera companies treat the customers that buy their many $k professional ranges the same way that they treat their point and click customers. There has to be a difference in expectations and treatment between something costing a hundred and something costing thousands. I guess the issue is where the prosumer ranges fit in and if the customer care will stand up to it.

I have to say in support of Fuji UK, I received a continental power supply lead with my unit, one call and they sent me the replacement. A little like the positive (customer care) effect sometimes created with vehicle recalls I felt better about the company because they responded to fix my problem.

When I can get someone at the manufactuers office on the phone if I need to bend their ear I feel much better.

--Mark in UK

Liza..........its like this in life......the more money you spend with a company the more attention you get. I work with the largest hardware chain in Australia and I am just an ant in their network, the big suppliers pamper the buyers......because we buy a lot .........they cannot pamper me so they pamper the ones who make the decisions and spend the companies money.

When i was working in our family business i dealt with reps everyday and as we spent more money with companies the more friendly and generous they became to me and that was reflected in the amount we purchased from them.

Being a large Insulation Company we had some large accounts and at the end of the year and at other times through the year we were taken out to dinner given gifts etc.

But it also depended on who in our business was seen as being responsible for the purchase of their products.
i remember a case in point with Dow Corning.

I was responsible for the purchasing and sales of their silicone products so I got all the freebies.........days at the races , wined and dined in marquees etc.

it is all relative the more you spent the more you got..........so you can see that we are all just little fish and there are always more little fish than big fish!

Duncan Burt said:

©azil said:

I have a question, and it is purely that, a question. I am truly
not trying to incite a riot.

I have noticed people talking about someday hoping to afford the S2
when for instance they think their photography merits a jump up in
price range. I too have thought about the day when I can justify
the jump to DSLR, but I have to say that I would be rather skittish
about a fuji DSLR. Don't get me wrong, I hope you all know by now
that I think fuji makes a terrific product and I am more or less
quite happy with my 6900 for now. But if I am going to jump up to
DSLR I think I would have to go with a company that has more
respect for its customers. Mind you I am not sure such a company
exists as I haven't done the research yet, but I would have to
think long and hard before shelling out that kind of cash on a
fuji. Am I alone in my thinking here? Fuji as a company has
alienated me. I would love to hear arguments from others about why

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Liza - I'll start the flame war with if you like !!

Only joking

I some ways I agree. I work in the auto industry and its a bit the
same here.

You buy something that is a good product from a company that does
not appear to have good customer relations. Maybe they have good
R&D and come up with really innovative products, but their
marketing and aftersaleas leave alot to be desired. In the UK auto
companies like REnault and Fiat / Alfa have made some really good
of the wall kinda cars (opps slipped into US there!), but you try
and get good aftercare / support from thenm and that another story.

However, if you buy from someone like BMW / Audi / Saab / Lexus,
you may not get all the latest whizzo, flash bang whallop bits and
bobs, but you get a rock solid product from a company that will
look after you when things are not all hunky dorry (UK expessions
there).

So to a large extent I agree. It's a bit like buying a sports car
for the fun of it for a lower price, but when you get realy serious
go with a throghbred manufacturer.

For me the question is who is the Renault / Fiat / Alfa of the
digicam market and who is the BMW / Audi / Lexus of the market.

By the way Liza, Cats are so strange and maybe they do have a sixth
sense. As I was typing this, Eli came up to the study, sat on my
lap to see who I was "talking to". I'll post the pic on pbase in a
bit.

Lets see how this post develops

Duncan Burt said:

I shouldn't be alienated because I would love to love Fuji. But
right now I just don't. Again... this is purely a question. I am
not trying to start a flame war.

liza
--
http://www.lizawallis.com
http://www.lizawallis.com/photography

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--
Duncan
Birmingham, England

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©azil said:

I have a question, and it is purely that, a question. I am truly
not trying to incite a riot.

I have noticed people talking about someday hoping to afford the S2
when for instance they think their photography merits a jump up in
price range. I too have thought about the day when I can justify
the jump to DSLR, but I have to say that I would be rather skittish
about a fuji DSLR. Don't get me wrong, I hope you all know by now
that I think fuji makes a terrific product and I am more or less
quite happy with my 6900 for now. But if I am going to jump up to
DSLR I think I would have to go with a company that has more
respect for its customers.

Click to expand...

I've never had any bad experiences with Fuji. The five Fuji digitals I've had have been flawless. Here is what I question, I wouldn't want to sink my money in a Fuji - Nikon hybred when I could get a pure Nikon for the same money and one that is built on a full fledged digital body not something adapted from a cheap 35mm body. Now I have a Canon D30 and many will charge the same of it. It is pure Canon, though. Has the 100% backing of Canon, not a split personality kind of relationship. The S1 wouldn't even use all the Nikon lenses either. Maybe the S2 doesn't either. I don't know Nikon much at all.

I just can't understand going with the Fuji when you could go with a Nikon or Canon pro camera.--Dave Lewis

Member said:

I just can't understand going with the Fuji when you could go with
a Nikon or Canon pro camera.
--
Dave Lewis

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I think the main reason is simply $$$$$. ;-) A Fuji S1 body is about $4500 in Canada. A Nikon or Canon is quite a bit more I believe, closer to $6000, even $10,000. And how about buying a Kodak ? Body by Nikon too. But different electronics package that the pure Nikon. Might be a reason there. Maybe you like Fuji's or Kodak's electronics better than Nikon's ? And, who knows who actually build's Nikon's electronics ? There's a hell of a lot more cross-breeding than we're led to believe. Did any of you know that Sony TV screens and computer monitors are actually made by Samsung ? Yep, it was a big surprise to me ! ;-)

Pix

Dave Lewis said:

I've never had any bad experiences with Fuji. The five Fuji
digitals I've had have been flawless. Here is what I question, I
wouldn't want to sink my money in a Fuji - Nikon hybred when I
could get a pure Nikon for the same money and one that is built on
a full fledged digital body not something adapted from a cheap 35mm
body. Now I have a Canon D30 and many will charge the same of it.
It is pure Canon, though. Has the 100% backing of Canon, not a
split personality kind of relationship. The S1 wouldn't even use
all the Nikon lenses either. Maybe the S2 doesn't either. I don't
know Nikon much at all.

Click to expand...

Is there any digital SLR now that is a pure digital body? The Kodak models are essentially Nikon F5s or Canon EOS 1's with a digital capture system. The D30 and D1 are built on EOS bodies (EOS 3 and EOS 1 I believe) and the Nikon D1 series are built on the F5 chassis. And I am not convinced the body used for the digital SLR really makes that much of a difference, as it is just a light tight box to hold your lens and capture system. A good quality lens and and exposure control system are what would really matter.

The S1 uses the same range of Nikon lenses as the D30 does with Canon lenses. Only Nikon Af lenses fit the S1, just as only AF Canon lenses fit the D30. Try to put an FD lens on the D30...ain't gonna happen as Canon completely changed the lens mount when they switch to EOS. None of the old, excellent FD lens would fit. At least Nikon kept some compatibility with the older AI and AIS manual focus lenses on their AF bodies. Same with Pentax, any Pentax K-mount manual focus lens will fit almost all there bodies with two exceptions (entry level ZX-30 and ZX-50).

I doubt if anyone is going to design a 35mm interchangeable lens SLR digital body from the ground up, when there are already excellent bodies in production that can be adapted for use as a digital camera. Olympus did do this i believe with the E10/E20 series but these are not interchangeable lens cameras....and there is still much stylistically the same between the E10 and the ZLR series of 35mm bodies.

So, I'd be statified with any digital SLR myself, and don;t find the S! hybrid to be that much of a problem. What I do find to be a problem is the cost. Why should a digial SLR based upon a modestly priced 35mm body cost so danged much! If you look at the cost of an N60 body, on which the S1 is based, it is only about $300 or so.....is the CCD and the electronics really costing another $2500?? Until they come out with a decent 35mm styled digital SLR in at around the $1000 I'll be happy with my 6900!

PS -- Note to Pentax....please make a digital SLR so I can use my Pentax lenses!! --John http://www.pbase.com/jglover

John said:

Why should a digial SLR based upon a modestly priced 35mm body cost > so danged much! If you look at the cost of an N60 body, on which the > S1 is based, it is only about $300 or so.....is the CCD and the electronics > really costing another $2500??

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To cover early R&D cost and because they can and people will buy.

Regards,

Dan

John you are so right on all the points! And really, the price of current DSLR with interchangeable lenses is ridiculous, and the S2 will not be an exception. Except for professionals that can really cover such a price by their revenues, it is completely excessive for the others. Cameras like the 6900 (or the Sony 707/ Minolta D7 if the photographic quality of their images wereas good as the 6900r) are really the way to go for amateurs, except the very rich ones who could afford a contax N digital or an Hasselbald with a 16 mp digital back. Even the E10/E20 is significantly too much costly for what it provides, while a 1000 US$ an E20 would be a good choice. With a better ergonomy (EVF and AF) and an image quality comparable to the 6900, the 602 should remain a reference for 2002/2003 for exiging amateurs and I think Fuji has well positioned its offering for consumers. I will consider a S2 or any other DSLR when a complete system (body + a 28-300 mm 35 mm equivalent range of lenses) will cost less than 1500$.

SFJP
http://www.pbase.com/sfjp

John said:

I doubt if anyone is going to design a 35mm interchangeable lens
SLR digital body from the ground up, when there are already
excellent bodies in production that can be adapted for use as a
digital camera. Olympus did do this i believe with the E10/E20
series but these are not interchangeable lens cameras....and there
is still much stylistically the same between the E10 and the ZLR
series of 35mm bodies.

So, I'd be statified with any digital SLR myself, and don;t find
the S! hybrid to be that much of a problem. What I do find to be a
problem is the cost. Why should a digial SLR based upon a modestly
priced 35mm body cost so danged much! If you look at the cost of
an N60 body, on which the S1 is based, it is only about $300 or
so.....is the CCD and the electronics really costing another
$2500?? Until they come out with a decent 35mm styled digital SLR
in at around the $1000 I'll be happy with my 6900!

John
http://www.pbase.com/jglover

Click to expand...

--SFJPwww.pbase.com/sfjp

Liza,

I could be tempted to agree with you. If I can diversify a little. All companies supply products that are designed to last for the duration of the garantee. Their opinion is, After one year of owning a particular camera it should fail to operate OR due to technological advancement you will want the next model (or two) up. They are in the business of selling cameras to make massive proffit. If your camera needs repair during the garantee period, they will repair it if they must. If it last more than 1 year, they have acheived their goal, maximum proffit. Trust me, I have dine alot of design engineering, I am more than familiar with these situations.

Anyone who thinks that the 602 or the S2 is the latest and greatest from Fuji, think again. What is laying on their shelves is a truly wonderful piece of photographic equipment that would blow you all away tomorrow, but you will see it in 18 months time.
Enjoy
Charles