Why the Nikon D40 "doesn't deserve" your attention.

  • Thread starter Thread starter Barry Fitzgerald
  • Start date Start date
If he wants a f/2.8 zoom lens - he has those options available in
17-55, 70-200 VR, etc. and those are AF-S.
17-55 2.8 is a 1500 Euro lens.
70-200 VR is a 1799 Euro lens.

Somehow I have a feeling that people buying a D40 do not shop for lenses in this price range. The ONLY affordable AF-S other than the kit lens is the 55-200. That not an awfull lot to choose from.

Tamron has a nice 17-55 2.8 available for 'only' 400 Euros. Now that is almost 4 times cheaper than Nikon and would be an interesting lens for D40 buyers. This lens will however not autofocus with the D40. Starting to get the picture ? ;)

RW
 
No they are not pulling the wool over anyone's eyes. But they are making Nikon bashers very upset. They can see that this camera will increase Nikon's market share.

Lens compatibility is clearly stated on Nikon's website and on the camera box.

Compatible Lenses*1: Nikon F mount with AF coupling and AF contacts Type G or D AF Nikkor: 1) AF-S, AF-I: All functions supported; 2) Other Type G or D AF Nikkor: All functions supported except autofocus; 3) PC Micro-Nikkor 85mm f/2.8D: Can only be used in mode M; all other functions supported except autofocus; 4) Other AF Nikkor*1/AI-P Nikkor: All functions supported except autofocus and 3D Color Matrix Metering II; 5) Non-CPU: Can be used in mode M, but exposure meter does not function; electronic range finder can be used if maximum aperture is f/5.6 or faster; 6) IX Nikkor lenses cannot be used
1. Excluding lenses for F3AF
Be reasonable Barry. Maybe the D40 is not for everyone, but to
reach a new market or selling price, trade-offs must be made. And
this one is perfectly reasonable, the D40 is a low-cost,
entry-level DSLR. Owners may not have more than 1 or 2 low-cost
zoom lenses. Don't like it? Buy a more expensive DSLR with more
features and benefits. That's why Nikon offers those, too.

Cheers,
JB
--
Brian
 
The target market for the D40 is entry level people... unlikely to
own more than two lenses, a general purpose WA zoom, and an
intermediate telephoto zoom.
And then, with those two slow, unstabilised lenses,
NOT slow. I went to check it out at BestBuy, and was VERY surprised
at how fast and whisper quiet the camera/body kit combo is.
Heh, "slow" when speaking of a lens (and not particularly mentioning
focus), is normally referring to the aperture. f/4 to f/5.6 as the
Nikon 55-200 is considered slow compared to e.g. constant f/2.8
for the FZ20.
they will need more light to handhold the camera (for equal noise level)
Not true, when you consider how low the noise level is at iso 1600.
I had already factored that in, that's why I said equal noise level.
Sure you can raise the iso 3 - 3 1/2 stops more for equal
noise level, but against 3 stops stabilisation there is very little advantage
left and with the slow (small aperture) lens the bridge camera's fast
lens takes the lead. Thus in some situations, you can hand hold the
bridge camera but you'll need a tripod for the DSLR. (For subject
motion the DSLR is of course better.)

That's why people like f/2.8 zooms and fast primes for their DSLRs
but the D40 unfortunately has very few affordable options that AF.
THE lowest.
That's debatable, my vote goes to the 350D.
And Nikon has the reprehensible habit of doing NR at the raw stage,
so it's a low noise with a cost in details.
than a bridge camera with IS (a better option for some of them I
would dare say!).

Not the best way to take advantage of a DSLR.
The D40 has no appeal for ME, as I prefer to try and find good,
used glass, which won't AF with this camera.
I agree with you here, but why deny D40 buyers this possibility?
BUT, I do see the appeal for DSLR newbies.
Due to ad campaigns, the Nikon name etc, but perhaps not if they
did a thorough analysis of thier needs.

I think they, depending on usage, either would be better off with
a bridge camera, a Nikon D50/D80 or a DSLR from the competition
which has been available a good while for much less than Nikon is
asking for the D40.
And, consider that in 2-3 months, it'll
proabaly be 10-20% cheaper then the present price point.
Still too much and I don't see why people praise it now for something
that MAY materialise in a future. PMA is around the corner, Canon,
Oly, Sony, Panasonic, Samsung, all of them might have new models
at the similar price point and less crippled, so the D40 may be old news
before it's cheap.

Just my two oere
Erik from Sweden
 
of negativism seem to come out after each new camera introduction. Don't like a D40? Get a D50, D70, D80 D200...

As for those screw-drive lenses, they're on their way out like the external meter coupling. Folks that will buy a D40 kit will just have to make due with one of the many AFS lenses. Life is just too harsh sometimes.
 
...Didn't that plea bargain agreement prohibit you from ever appearing in public again?
 
If they made a D40 with a motor to drive the lenses and whatever else the D40 is designed without, wouldn't it just be a D50...maybe it might get a D50s model number? Probably about the same size, etc? No real difference over the D50?

Now, if they are discontinuing the D50 and D70s without a similar price level and featured replacement coming online, I think that is a tactical error on their part as the D80 is too big a jump in price to get that functionality back, IMO.

But, if the line up is a D40, a D50/D70s (or replacement), D80, D200, etc I think that is a great 'across the board' lineup.

--
Stujoe -
http://www.flickr.com/people/stujoe/

Nikon D50 (Nikon 18-55mm, Nikon 50mm f1.8, Sigma 70-300 APO DG Macro)
Panasonic FZ7
 
That's it. There are some BMWs which cost more than the Toyotas but offer less - its that simple. If BMW builds a Toyota Corolla equivalent just costs more - there will be people buying it.

Also not sure of this but I would believe there are more Nikon AF-S lenses than Pentax lineup.
 
If you want to take the option of invest more in glass less in body - the D40 increases that option.
 
I pondered on this a lot also. Why would anyone want a camera you couldn't put the $110 50 f1.8 on and autofocus it? What about those wonderful mid range priced but pretty darn good non-AF-S Nikon lenses that those of us on a budget are more than happy with?

Then I realized that everyone here, regardless of whether we shoot with a P&S or a DSLR, are different from "them" out there. We all know those people. They are our friends. They are our family. They are the consumer at large. They only shoot in auto or perhaps program because someone told them to use that, but they haven't a clue why. They do not change any settings. They automatically flip the flash up indoors because they have always had to. It is complicated enough for them to get their photos from the camera to the computer. Or they just know to take the card out and take it to a photo place. I am not putting these people down, but this is a huge segment of the camera-buying population. They take snapshots; they have no interest in photography. These people would never change a lens on a DSLR. Most DSLRs are way too complicated for them and even the D40 will be overkill, but they will leave the 18-55 lens on and be happy with a quicker camera, a flash that doesn't produce much redeye because it is higher up than their cheap P&S, and better photo quality. If with time they want a longer reach, they can go to a camera store and have them change out the lens to a 18-135 and instantly they have more zoom and this is all the camera they would ever want or use. If they want stabilization or more zoom, the 18-200 VR is an option.

Now take another group. These are experienced photographers who really prefer bridge cameras, but none of the manufacturers is making exactly what they want. Or they have stopped making them. Or they would like a little less noise at higher iso. Or they pine for the camera that had such great photo quality but was too slow with not a large enough buffer. They really prefer an all in one. They think lens lust is really dumb. They find most DSLRs too large and heavy, even the D50 and the Pentax. But now they are ready to buy. They want stabilization, speed, features, and lightweight. They are informed photographers so they want settings not to be dumbed down. They want and need an ergonomic camera that feels good in the hands. They had already determined that the D50 and other DSLRs were too large and heavy. They see the D40 and see that the 18-200 VR (a 27-300 actually) is not out of their price range. And it is stabilized. This camera offers speed, it offers them the ability to shoot at high iso with very little noise. So maybe they don't need a prime. It offers them impressive photo quality. So perhaps this will finally be the DSLR for them. And if and when they want to be able to change lenses, that ability is there. The kit lens will be there for times when they want the lightness of it.

And a third group. They own a Nikon DSLR. They are aware that this camera will need to be manual focused with a prime. This is fine with them. They also own Nikon AF-S lenses. They like the idea of a lighter weight camera for some occasions. And they do need a backup DSLR.

BTW, I am not in any of these groups, love my D70 and my D50. Use primes a lot and love them.

--
Darlene
Dee Seventy, Dee Fifty, Coolpixes, One Panny
http://www.pbase.com/imacatmom
 
Heh, "slow" when speaking of a lens (and not particularly mentioning
focus), is normally referring to the aperture. f/4 to f/5.6 as the
Nikon 55-200 is considered slow compared to e.g. constant f/2.8
for the FZ20.
Duh! I knew that. Was kinda' grrrooogggyyy this morning. Needed some Java. You got a point there. Although, are the Sigma 17-70 2.8-4.0 or the 0Tamaron 17-50 2.8 USM lenses?
I had already factored that in, that's why I said equal noise level.
Sure you can raise the iso 3 - 3 1/2 stops more for equal
noise level, but against 3 stops stabilisation there is very little
advantage
left and with the slow (small aperture) lens the bridge camera's fast
lens takes the lead. Thus in some situations, you can hand hold the
bridge camera but you'll need a tripod for the DSLR. (For subject
motion the DSLR is of course better.)
Another question: are those this camera aimed at interested in lenses that cost twice the kit price?
That's why people like f/2.8 zooms and fast primes for their DSLRs
but the D40 unfortunately has very few affordable options that AF.
See question above. It's all about the INTENDED MARKET.
THE lowest.
That's debatable, my vote goes to the 350D.
The 350 is/will soon be out of production, and the noise level is basically the same, except to the pixel peeping crowd, so that is irrevelant.
And Nikon has the reprehensible habit of doing NR at the raw stage,
Adjustable, no NR, Low NR, normal NR and high NR, thus giving the user the CHOICE of using his/her favorite noise filter
so it's a low noise with a cost in details.
That's debatable, as Phil's testes show, my vote goes for the 40D.
than a bridge camera with IS (a better option for some of them I
would dare say!).
With their EXTREME noise reduction and EXTREME loss in detail, compared to DSLRs.
Not the best way to take advantage of a DSLR.
The D40 has no appeal for ME, as I prefer to try and find good,
used glass, which won't AF with this camera.
I agree with you here, but why deny D40 buyers this possibility?
BUT, I do see the appeal for DSLR newbies.
Due to ad campaigns, the Nikon name etc, but perhaps not if they
did a thorough analysis of thier needs.

I think they, depending on usage, either would be better off with
a bridge camera, a Nikon D50/D80 or a DSLR from the competition
which has been available a good while for much less than Nikon is
asking for the D40.
The D50/D80, XT/XTi are higher in price, the XT being the cheapest. Theonly one similar in price is the Pentax K110D. The D40 has more features than the K110D, though not many more.

Again, intended market. Most camera manufacturers did the same thing with SLRs during the mid to late 90's.
And, consider that in 2-3 months, it'll
proabaly be 10-20% cheaper then the present price point.
Still too much and I don't see why people praise it now for something
that MAY materialise in a future. PMA is around the corner, Canon,
Oly, Sony, Panasonic, Samsung, all of them might have new models
at the similar price point and less crippled, so the D40 may be old
news
before it's cheap.
PMA is in March, right? So, IF the price drops, as they usually do (the XTi dropped 10% in 2 WEEKS!!), to , say $500-$550 usd, the MUCH better IQ of a DSLR. I expect the D40 to be in that price range by mid January.
Just my two oere
Erik from Sweden
Just my two cents.;0)
--
shinndigg
 
I knew someone that though digital film was so expensive compared
to regular film. I came to find out they would fill their card,
and buy a new one, and keep the full card in a drawer. They had
like 10 1 gig cards because they never thought to copy the images
to their computer.
Hmmmm.... whenever I discover something like that, I'm always
rather depressed. It's the thought that their VOTE counts just as
much as mine....

... and, like as not, could be used to NEGATE mine! ;-)
------------------------------------------------
Apparently, when Ike (Eisenhower) came to be President of the US,
he was shocked to discover that HALF of US citizens were below
average intelligence!
--
Regards,
Baz

ROFLMBO!!! You got a point!
--
shinndigg
 
Heh, "slow" when speaking of a lens (and not particularly mentioning
focus), is normally referring to the aperture. f/4 to f/5.6 as the
Nikon 55-200 is considered slow compared to e.g. constant f/2.8
for the FZ20.
Duh! I knew that. Was kinda' grrrooogggyyy this morning. Needed
some Java. You got a point there.
Although, are the Sigma 17-70
2.8-4.0 or the 0Tamaron 17-50 2.8 USM lenses?
They are lenses that won't AF on the D40.
I had already factored that in, that's why I said equal noise level.
Sure you can raise the iso 3 - 3 1/2 stops more for equal
noise level, but against 3 stops stabilisation there is very little
advantage
left and with the slow (small aperture) lens the bridge camera's fast
lens takes the lead. Thus in some situations, you can hand hold the
bridge camera but you'll need a tripod for the DSLR. (For subject
motion the DSLR is of course better.)
Another question: are those this camera aimed at interested in
lenses that cost twice the kit price?
I think not. That's why they would like to use (with AF) a cheap 50/1.8
or the Sigma you mentioned above that's approx. half the kit price
(European prices).
And Nikon has the reprehensible habit of doing NR at the raw stage,
Adjustable, no NR, Low NR, normal NR and high NR, thus giving the
user the CHOICE of using his/her favorite noise filter
Aren't you talking about JPG settings now? I talked about raw.
than a bridge camera with IS (a better option for some of them I
would dare say!).
With their EXTREME noise reduction and EXTREME loss in detail,
compared to DSLRs.
1) There is no NR if you shoot raw (e.g. FZ30 or 50)
2) Don't forget we are comparing iso200-400 to iso3200
BUT, I do see the appeal for DSLR newbies.
Due to ad campaigns, the Nikon name etc, but perhaps not if they
did a thorough analysis of thier needs.

I think they, depending on usage, either would be better off with
a bridge camera, a Nikon D50/D80 or a DSLR from the competition
which has been available a good while for much less than Nikon is
asking for the D40.
The D50/D80, XT/XTi are higher in price, the XT being the cheapest.
Theonly one similar in price is the Pentax K110D.
There are still *istDL2's to be found and E-500's at lower prices.
The D40 has more features than the K110D, though not many more.
The K110D has 11 AF points (vs 3) and a lens compatibility that runs
circles around the D40. So which has more features is debatable.

The E-500 is well featured. (But a bit short of cheap fast AF lenses
too though.)
PMA is in March, right? So, IF the price drops, as they usually do
(the XTi dropped 10% in 2 WEEKS!!), to , say $500-$550 usd, the
MUCH better IQ of a DSLR.
Don't forget my pont was hand holdability. With iso pressed to max,
IQ suffers.

Just my two oere
Erik from Sweden
 
Heh, "slow" when speaking of a lens (and not particularly mentioning
focus), is normally referring to the aperture. f/4 to f/5.6 as the
Nikon 55-200 is considered slow compared to e.g. constant f/2.8
for the FZ20.
Duh! I knew that. Was kinda' grrrooogggyyy this morning. Needed
some Java. You got a point there.
Although, are the Sigma 17-70
2.8-4.0 or the 0Tamaron 17-50 2.8 USM lenses?
They are lenses that won't AF on the D40.
Are you sure about the Tamaron? I think it is USM, not pin driven.
I had already factored that in, that's why I said equal noise level.
Sure you can raise the iso 3 - 3 1/2 stops more for equal
noise level, but against 3 stops stabilisation there is very little
advantage
left and with the slow (small aperture) lens the bridge camera's fast
lens takes the lead. Thus in some situations, you can hand hold the
bridge camera but you'll need a tripod for the DSLR. (For subject
motion the DSLR is of course better.)
Another question: are those this camera aimed at interested in
lenses that cost twice the kit price?
I think not. That's why they would like to use (with AF) a cheap
50/1.8
Again, the intended market will probably be more interested in zoom lenses, not portrait lenses, which the 50 1.8 clearly is. We're talking about a vacation camera. You previously said that perhaps bridge cameras would be a better alternative to the D40 for the intended market. I don't know of many bridge cameras (Z50, Fuji S9000 and the like) that can shoot at f1.8 at 50mm. Apples to apples.
or the Sigma you mentioned above that's approx. half the kit price
(European prices).
And Nikon has the reprehensible habit of doing NR at the raw stage,
Adjustable, no NR, Low NR, normal NR and high NR, thus giving the
user the CHOICE of using his/her favorite noise filter
Aren't you talking about JPG settings now? I talked about raw.
Have you checked out the D40 at ALL???
than a bridge camera with IS (a better option for some of them I
would dare say!).
With their EXTREME noise reduction and EXTREME loss in detail,
compared to DSLRs.
1) There is no NR if you shoot raw (e.g. FZ30 or 50)
2) Don't forget we are comparing iso200-400 to iso3200
Apples to apples, therefore iso 100-400 to 100-400, although the D40 at ISO 1600-3200 would STILL be better than those bridge cameras at iso 400. The ONLY one I could see giving it a run for the money is the aforementioned S9000. BUT, the artefacts are pretty heavy, even at iso 400 for the S9000. Yes, I've checked that one out.
BUT, I do see the appeal for DSLR newbies.
Due to ad campaigns, the Nikon name etc, but perhaps not if they
did a thorough analysis of thier needs.

I think they, depending on usage, either would be better off with
a bridge camera, a Nikon D50/D80 or a DSLR from the competition
which has been available a good while for much less than Nikon is
asking for the D40.
The D50/D80, XT/XTi are higher in price, the XT being the cheapest.
Theonly one similar in price is the Pentax K110D.
There are still *istDL2's to be found and E-500's at lower prices.
I wasw talking about local prices, not grey market.
The D40 has more features than the K110D, though not many more.
The K110D has 11 AF points (vs 3) and a lens compatibility that runs
circles around the D40. So which has more features is debatable.
Dlighting cmes to mind. I guess 21 AF-S lenses aren't enough. Yes, I've checked that out also....Oh, and that's just Nikon lenses. It doesn't include Sigma, Tamaron, etc...
The E-500 is well featured. (But a bit short of cheap fast AF lenses
too though.)
Still a great camera, the E500
PMA is in March, right? So, IF the price drops, as they usually do
(the XTi dropped 10% in 2 WEEKS!!), to , say $500-$550 usd, the
MUCH better IQ of a DSLR.
Don't forget my pont was hand holdability. With iso pressed to max,
IQ suffers.
Funny how you 'change the rules' after the fact, and focus on ONE thing.
Just my two oere
Erik from Sweden
Just my two pesos
--
shinndigg
 
Lens manufacturers will be cranking out lens for this camera even as we speak. And nikon will upgrade its lens line also. By mid next year there will be plenty of new lens for this camera.
 
I pondered on this a lot also. Why would anyone want a camera you
couldn't put the $110 50 f1.8 on and autofocus it? What about
those wonderful mid range priced but pretty darn good non-AF-S
Nikon lenses that those of us on a budget are more than happy with?

Then I realized that everyone here, regardless of whether we shoot
with a P&S or a DSLR, are different from "them" out there. We all
know those people. They are our friends. They are our family.
They are the consumer at large. They only shoot in auto or
perhaps program because someone told them to use that, but they
haven't a clue why. They do not change any settings. They
automatically flip the flash up indoors because they have always
had to. It is complicated enough for them to get their photos from
the camera to the computer. Or they just know to take the card out
and take it to a photo place. I am not putting these people down,
but this is a huge segment of the camera-buying population. They
take snapshots; they have no interest in photography. These people
would never change a lens on a DSLR. Most DSLRs are way too
complicated for them and even the D40 will be overkill, but they
will leave the 18-55 lens on and be happy with a quicker camera, a
flash that doesn't produce much redeye because it is higher up than
their cheap P&S, and better photo quality. If with time they want
a longer reach, they can go to a camera store and have them change
out the lens to a 18-135 and instantly they have more zoom and this
is all the camera they would ever want or use. If they want
stabilization or more zoom, the 18-200 VR is an option.

Now take another group. These are experienced photographers who
really prefer bridge cameras, but none of the manufacturers is
making exactly what they want. Or they have stopped making them.
Or they would like a little less noise at higher iso. Or they pine
for the camera that had such great photo quality but was too slow
with not a large enough buffer. They really prefer an all in one.
They think lens lust is really dumb. They find most DSLRs too
large and heavy, even the D50 and the Pentax. But now they are
ready to buy. They want stabilization, speed, features, and
lightweight. They are informed photographers so they want settings
not to be dumbed down. They want and need an ergonomic camera that
feels good in the hands. They had already determined that the D50
and other DSLRs were too large and heavy. They see the D40 and see
that the 18-200 VR (a 27-300 actually) is not out of their price
range. And it is stabilized. This camera offers speed, it offers
them the ability to shoot at high iso with very little noise. So
maybe they don't need a prime. It offers them impressive photo
quality. So perhaps this will finally be the DSLR for them. And if
and when they want to be able to change lenses, that ability is
there. The kit lens will be there for times when they want the
lightness of it.

And a third group. They own a Nikon DSLR. They are aware that
this camera will need to be manual focused with a prime. This is
fine with them. They also own Nikon AF-S lenses. They like the
idea of a lighter weight camera for some occasions. And they do
need a backup DSLR.

BTW, I am not in any of these groups, love my D70 and my D50. Use
primes a lot and love them.

--
Darlene
Dee Seventy, Dee Fifty, Coolpixes, One Panny
http://www.pbase.com/imacatmom
Darn, if you don't make sense!!! I think those that are griping the most are 1) People who own 'other' brands (I won't mention Canonite, in particular) who feel the need to disparage out of fear that Nikon just might gain Market Share, 2) Nikonians who simply want a Canon killer, 3) Those who simply don't have a clue.
Darlene, I think you hit the proverbial 'nail on the head'.
--
shinndigg
 
Darn, if you don't make sense!!! I think those that are griping the
most are 1) People who own 'other' brands (I won't mention
Canonite, in particular) who feel the need to disparage out of fear
that Nikon just might gain Market Share, 2) Nikonians who simply
want a Canon killer, 3) Those who simply don't have a clue.
Darlene, I think you hit the proverbial 'nail on the head'.
--
shinndigg
Or those who think it should be brought to people's attention in the fact that they are getting hooked into a nasty little nikon ploy!

Consumer protection....that is the name of the game..

--

 
Lens manufacturers will be cranking out lens for this camera even
as we speak. And nikon will upgrade its lens line also. By mid next
year there will be plenty of new lens for this camera.
Yup. I was at Best Buy two days ago. All the newbies were looking at the D40. One chick was overheard saying, "it's so comfy."

--
Have a Nikon day. : )
 

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