Neutral Density Filters

I've been looking into these and I want to get a graduated filter for sunsets and a normal one for waterfalls and creeks. I'm not sure what density value to get for the graduated and normal filters. I also am not sure of I should get one with a sharp contrast on the graduated filter or one that has a lesser gradient transition. If anyone who has experience with these filters could help me out, I would greatly appreciate it.

Thank you,
Brian

Check out the LEE filters - I have both .3 (1 stop) and .6 (2 stops) hard graduated filters (100x150mm size). They're big enough so you can also use them as normal ND filters (just slide them to one end). They can be combined as well for stronger effect. Not cheap, but they're among the best (no magenta shifts).
Christophe.

kezzer said:

I've been looking into these and I want to get a graduated filter
for sunsets and a normal one for waterfalls and creeks. I'm not
sure what density value to get for the graduated and normal
filters. I also am not sure of I should get one with a sharp
contrast on the graduated filter or one that has a lesser gradient
transition. If anyone who has experience with these filters could
help me out, I would greatly appreciate it.

Click to expand...

--
You can't have everything - where would you put it?

NANPA member - http://www.nanpa.org
http://www.pbase.com/cheyman

Equipment in profile.

Those look like their right up my ally. I'm looking at the P series ones. I can't find info on the P series filter holder though. How strong as these, do they break really easily? What about scratches? For sun sets is a graduated or hard one better?

Anyone have any more thoughts?

Kezzer,

I have a Singh-Ray variable ND filter for water and other shots where I want to use a longer shutter-speed, and I find it fantastic. The variable nature of the ND effect means that you can set it where you want it for each shot. Check it out on their web-site. Of course, its rather expensive....

Patrick

I came across this Cokin X-Pro kit ND Grad

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=Search&A=details&Q=&sku=307103&is=REG&addedTroughType=search

What do you guys think? Are these any good?

http://www.singh-ray.com/grndgrads.html

You can't go wrong with Singh-Ray. Avoid Hoya.

Cheers,
JB

You haven't gotten many replies so here is what I did recently:

I got cokin P holder "kit" from filter connection with a hi-tech grad nd and then bought another hi-tech grad nd. I got one 2 stop and one 3 stop, and one hard and one soft. I forget which. I got what they and others recommended in these forums. So if you only want one ND grad I'm not sure which one to get, many people said they had both and used one and not the other (and not always the same choice). I think I got 2 stop soft and 3 stop hard.

For the ND, you can either get a hi-tech or get a B+W or even hoya HMC screw on type.

whatever you do, do not buy cokin filters (holder is fine) they are not neutral, they are like smoked glass. weird.

Do you think the Cokin P series holder will cause vignetting on the Sigma 10-20?

kezzer said:

Do you think the Cokin P series holder will cause vignetting on the
Sigma 10-20?

Click to expand...

At 10mm, yes this does happen. Its gone by about 12mm or so.

In the cokin P series there is a "thin" holder which only holds one filter. Either use that one, cut down a normal cokin P holder so that it only holds one filter. This helps limit the issue.

Goodluck!

Hi,

I have the Cokin P holder and use it on the Sigma 10-20EX.

First, I bought a Singh-Ray ND Grad, two stop soft. A two stop grad makes a difference in many landscape shots by coping with excessive dynamic range and helping to avoid blown highlights. The soft graduation is more versatile than a hard graduation. I followed advice here and if one filter is your choice then a ND Grad two stop soft was the one recommended. From experience I now agree. Singh-Rays are not cheap, but completely neutral whereas some cheaper brands are prone to colour cast. See:

http://www.singh-ray.com/grndgrads.html

Second, I got the Cokin P filter holder and adaptor rings (77mm for the Sigma 10-20). I then cut off the outer two slots, leaving only one slot, with a hack saw and filed the edges smooth. Again a tip from this forum. With only one slot left on the holder I have not experienced vignetting using the ND Grad.

Hope that helps.

--
Jon

http://jules7.smugmug.com/

Has anyone ever seen or fabricated a ND graduated "strip"?

I find that close to dusk, there is a narrow band along the horizon that needs to be tamed, but the sky above it is darker. I've often been wanting a graduated filter with clear above and below the horizon line.

kezzer said:

Do you think the Cokin P series holder will cause vignetting on the
Sigma 10-20?

Click to expand...

They make a wide angle P holder which I bought as well, for $13 or so I'm not going to take a hacksaw to my P holder.

it's about the same, just doesn't hold 4 filters, only one. so you can leave this with the 77mm adapter ring and then put the other adapter ring on your normal P holder.

also, I want to point out that soft/hard is relevant to the manufacturer. People say hi-tech soft is like stingray hard or vice versa, I never get it straight. So first decide on a brand and then search the forum for advice specific to that brand.

Filter connection recommended one 2 stop and one 3 stop, so I did that. That's also what people recommended here in the forums.

kezzer said:

Those look like their right up my ally. I'm looking at the P series
ones. I can't find info on the P series filter holder though. How
strong as these, do they break really easily? What about scratches?
For sun sets is a graduated or hard one better?

Click to expand...

It depens upon the lens you're using whether to get the P size holder or the larger Lee holder. If you do anything with a ver wide lens (i.e. Nikon 12-24) you might opt for the Lee filter holder which takes 100mm filters versus 85mm P sized filters.

Beyond that, the P holder is a cheaply made piece of plastic, which has its good and bad points. Good - its cheap so so won't worry about losing it, its small so it packs well. Bad - its cheaply made and is held in place by friction between the holder and the adapter, where the Lee is held in place with a brass spring loaded catch which makes it easy to move with one hand (with the P holder you'll have to hold the lens with one hand and twist the holder with the other). Yes it sounds minor, but you will be surprised how much you learn to like being able to make one handed filter adjustments.

They don't break easily.

The do scratch easily (unless you buy glass).

The subject really doesn't dictate what transition type you buy, its the focal length of the lens. For what its worth, I use my hard grad 3 stop most often.

If money is an issue, then go with the COkin P holder and Lee, Hitech, or Singh Ray filters (of course, if you're going with Singh Ray, then money isn't an issue) - stay away from Cokin if you can.

One last thing, some cameras are more sensitive to infrared radiation than others. Infrared shows up as a magenta cast in an image. Doing long exposures with ND filters, even grads, can make this problem rear its ugly head which is impossible to get rid of in PP. You might consider getting an IR filter such as a Tiffen hot mirror, to combat this issue. My D100 and D70 are very susceptible to this type of problem, but some cameras like the D200 have a better IR cut filter which reduces the need for an IR cur filter.

This is a really annoying problem if you like to do long exposures when the sun is out. Its not too bad at twilight, but dusk, dawn and middle of the day can be issues.

Thom Hogan has some good advice on this:

http://www.bythom.com/filters.htm

I use Hi-Tech filters in Cokin P holders. I have a 3 slot normal hodler and the wide angle one slot holder, which eliminates the need to hack off the outer two slots on a normal holder. The wide angle holder works well with a Nikon 12-24DX, with little or no vignetting.

--
Regards,
Neil

The good news:

The filter you describe does actually exist. It's called a 'Reverse ND Grad'. They were developed by Singh Ray in collaboration with Galen Rowell.

The bad news:

Singh Ray is the only company to my knowledge who make them and they're typically 'Singh Ray' expensive. Not too bad in the U.S. But if you're in Europe then you may want to send your wifes Christmas present back ;-)

NRothschild said:

I use Hi-Tech filters in Cokin P holders. I have a 3 slot normal
hodler and the wide angle one slot holder, which eliminates the
need to hack off the outer two slots on a normal holder. The wide
angle holder works well with a Nikon 12-24DX, with little or no
vignetting.

Click to expand...

And this is one of the compromises with going with a smaller system. With the Lee system, because the filter size is so large, I'm not limited to a single filter when shooting with my ultra wides.

I can use more than one filter at a time with wide lenses, plus at the same time use a polarizer (which by the way is almost-permanently mounted on the end of the holder).

Absolutely- but at a very steep price. About $95 per filter vs about $38, and $130 or so for the holder vs $30 or whatever the Cokins go for. Get 3 or 4 filters and you have more than you would put into a Gitzo 1325

I personally don't use them enough to warrant that cost but after using the Cokin P's on a 77mm filter thread wide angle lens, I can understand why the 4x6 format is so useful (I assume you are using 4x6).

--
Regards,
Neil

And the steep price is one of the compromises in going with the larger size filters. :> )

I was fortunate enough to buy a lot of my stuff before the Dollar / Pound exchange rate favored the Pound as much as it does now. If price is no object, then the Lee system is great, otherwise smaller systems like Cokin P are pretty good, albiet with some handling compromises.

The holder, by the way, isn't $130. Its $75 at 2filters.com and you can get them cheaper on Ebay. Hitech filters, which I use often are about $62.

Its not as expensive as you might think. Yes it is more than Cokin P, but if you use filters often, I think its worth it.