Keep the K10D or get D80?

I am looking for some input from those that have switched over from Nikon to the K10D.
This has very little do with image quality and more about use.
Things I find I am missing from my old D70 are:
the focus assist lamp (I keep missing shots forgetting to put the flash up)

the White Balance Button (I could hit the button and snap a shot of the light and be off and running)

minor I know but they keep getting in my way and I am wondering how long (# of shots) is took folks to get used to the Pentax way of doing things?

I left my D70 because I kept running into moire artifacts and wanted better low light performance.

The K10D seems no better than my D70 with regards to moire and only slightly better on noise at a given ISO. (Trying to avoid using Noiseware unless absolutely necessary)

I love the fact the K10D has the SR and allows me to shoot in lower light using a lower ISO and maintain a higher shutter speed and it really pays off with longer focal lengths with kids sports.

I really WANT to love the K10D but having difficulty making the transition. I only have about 600 shots on the K10D and was wondering if anyone else (former Nikonians) had settled in to the new camera?

The D70 is a 6Mp camera, all current 6Mp has lower noise at high ISO than the current 10Mp cameras. If noise at high ISO is of concern, the 6Mp DSLR's does a better job than the K10D, D80, Sony A100 etc. This is because the 6Mp has larger pixels on the same area as the 10Mp have. More light is hitting each pixel. The smaller the pixels are, the less light will hit each pixels, and thus the sensor must amplify the signal more. This introduces noise.

Tahe care
R

Understood about the 6 vs 10 mp issue and noise.
But.

I spend a lot of time cropping and printing in A3 size so I need the extra MP. I have been known to print A3 at 180ppi without serious detriment but I would like to have the extra there for when I need it.

wchp said:

Understood about the 6 vs 10 mp issue and noise.
But.
I spend a lot of time cropping and printing in A3 size so I need
the extra MP. I have been known to print A3 at 180ppi without
serious detriment but I would like to have the extra there for when
I need it.

Click to expand...

I always though that a weak argument...my advice is try harder behind the viewfinder! Sorry....but it has to be said
--

Usage vs. features. Nikon's way of WB adjustment is superior to just about any other company's. Also since the D200 they were apparently able to eliminate blinkies with the iTTL flash, something Pentax is having problems with (so I hear.) In many ways if you can afford the VR lenses than Nikon will give you superior equipment. Still, for low light I think Pentax is king. You can use fast primes with shake reduction, something that is not available for Canon or Nikon.

Since I never owned a Nikon, I can't tell you if I could or could not get used to using the Pentax with WB through the menu. I was shooting a theater performance last weekend and had to set manual WB which proved to be a snap, still it did require me to use the menu, something that I think Nikon may not, but the pics came out looking mighty fine. All with a manual 135mm prime.

If I were you, I would sell it immediately, preferable for a loss that way you can make two people happy.

Barry Fitzgerald said:

I always though that a weak argument...my advice is try harder
behind the viewfinder! Sorry....but it has to be said
--

Click to expand...

I will admit it is weak. I do however find myself quite often in situations that do not permit that (at times) luxury. The coaches will not let me run onto the field, I am not able to to around the field as fast as the play occurs, and when I see a shot across the river or pond and my maximum focal length with me still is insufficient for the composition/shot... well, I haven't learned how to walk on water yet.

It just seems when shooting I find myself in situations about 30% of the time when I am not physically able to re-compose and I don't have the glass with me to do it.

Point well taken though.

Dan Darmoros wrote:
In many ways

Dan Darmoros said:

if you can afford the VR lenses than Nikon will give you superior
equipment. Still, for low light I think Pentax is king. You can use
fast primes with shake reduction, something that is not available
for Canon or Nikon.

Since I never owned a Nikon, I can't tell you if I could or could
not get used to using the Pentax with WB through the menu. I was
shooting a theater performance last weekend and had to set manual
WB which proved to be a snap, still it did require me to use the
menu, something that I think Nikon may not, but the pics came out
looking mighty fine. All with a manual 135mm prime.

Click to expand...

You have summarized my conundrum very well. I look at the K10D as having the ability to do things that I simply am not able to do with the Nikon. The Nikon SR/VR reduction does not exist with the exception of specific lenses. It was one of the primary reasons I picked up the K10D. The K10 lets me stay under 800 and shoot stable shots in relatively low light... that is IF I remember to open the flash between compositions and light changes for focus assist. I also typically miss 1 or 2 shots each time lighting conditions change due to WB error. The AWD simply does not cut it, especially indoors where I frequently run into mixed tungsten, halogen and fluorescent lighting (think elementary school art class with a wall of glass letting in sunlight, general fluorescent and stations illuminated by spots both halogen and tungsten).

I must admit that I have problem with understanding your problem.

If you work mostly in auto exposure modes and wish to set ISO, then work with the camera in Sv mode. (use exposure compensation to over or under expose the image).

If you prefer working with a certain aperture/shutter, set the camera to TAv mode. The camera sets the ISO that matches your aperture and shutter combination.

I know this is a different way of working and thinking that the Nikon way, but try...

Take care
R

wchp said:

I am looking for some input from those that have switched over from
Nikon to the K10D.
This has very little do with image quality and more about use.
Things I find I am missing from my old D70 are:
the focus assist lamp (I keep missing shots forgetting to put the
flash up)

Click to expand...

I never use built-in flash for focus assist. Usually I need the assist in some events, when most of the shots are with flash. So I just switch my 360FGZ to SB mode. That red beam also attracts less attention.

wchp said:

the White Balance Button (I could hit the button and snap a shot of
the light and be off and running)

Click to expand...

Fn menu isn't that good as the direct access button, but still OK when You get used to it.

wchp said:

minor I know but they keep getting in my way and I am wondering how
long (# of shots) is took folks to get used to the Pentax way of
doing things?

I left my D70 because I kept running into moire artifacts and
wanted better low light performance.

The K10D seems no better than my D70 with regards to moire and only
slightly better on noise at a given ISO. (Trying to avoid using
Noiseware unless absolutely necessary)

Click to expand...

As D80 uses the same Sony sensor - You can't expect much better results regarding the noise. From Phil's samples D80 gives a bit less chroma noise, but this kind of noise is easily removed without bigger loss of quality.

wchp said:

I love the fact the K10D has the SR and allows me to shoot in lower
light using a lower ISO and maintain a higher shutter speed and it
really pays off with longer focal lengths with kids sports.

I really WANT to love the K10D but having difficulty making the
transition. I only have about 600 shots on the K10D and was
wondering if anyone else (former Nikonians) had settled in to the
new camera?

Click to expand...

If You have an opportunity to try the D80 - do it and then decide Yourself.

BTW - could You compare AF speed between D70 and K10D, especially in low and very low light?

--



http://www.z00m.us

Roland Mabo said:

If you prefer working with a certain aperture/shutter, set the
camera to TAv mode. The camera sets the ISO that matches your
aperture and shutter combination.
Take care
R

Click to expand...

This has been pretty much all I have been using. The Nikon did not have this feature at all and is probably the second most compelling reason to keep this camera after the built in SR.

I just leave ISO on auto with 800 set as max and shoot TAv. I love the speed this setting gives me in composition. The Nikon required two steps in Menu to accomplish the same thing.

wchp said:

The AWB simply does not cut it, especially
indoors where I frequently run into mixed tungsten, halogen and
fluorescent lighting (think elementary school art class with a wall
of glass letting in sunlight, general fluorescent and stations
illuminated by spots both halogen and tungsten).

Click to expand...

Is shooting RAW for those mixed lighting situations an option for you?

The fastest way of changing WB from shot to shot is ... not to do it on location but in PP ;-)

Leo "Zoom" said:

BTW - could You compare AF speed between D70 and K10D, especially
in low and very low light?

--

Click to expand...

In Low Light the nod goes to the K10D
In VERY Low light speed was similar but the D70 gets it right more often.
(qualify observation with using center focus on both)

Keep the D70, and travel more. That is a really short answer, but really helpful.
--
Pentax DS.

... both D80 and K10D are excellent cameras, and their picture qualities are on par as far as I can tell. Both offer some improvement over the D70 (which is also a very nice camera). I'e tried the D80 several times, actually I even persuaded my brother to get one (instead of K10D, mostly because Nikon lenses are alot easier to get, and he doesn't like to change lenses that often, and Nikon has an excellent 18-200 VR lens).

If I were using a D70, I'd go w/ D80 without a doubt. It's alot easier to adpter to the same system imo. Unless you want to try and keep both systems, and I know alot guys like to do that.

But now you've already got the K10D, and seems there are some features you really like which are not available on the K10D. Nobody can persuade to switch back to Nikon except yourself. Guess you've hold and tried the D80 before. Bring your K10D along to the store and compare w/ the D80 again, and see which one you like better. No point to keep something you don't like ...

I got the K10D because I like Pentax, and I really enjoy using those excellent Pentax glass. If I had to do it all over again, I'd choose K10D over the D80 (not because it's a better camera, but mostly because those lovely Pentax lenses).

Just my 2 cents.
--
Frank
GMT+8hours

Thanks all for your input.

I Purchased the K10D at a local camera store (gasp... no not online) and paid about an extra $50 for it in doing do.

I went back down to the store this morning and they took the K10D back and put a D80 with a 18-70 lens in my hands and said to go shoot it for a month and come back and he would give me whichever one I settled on.

This is one of the reasons I like doing business with local stores... this is not something I would have ever been able to do online and well worth the $50 IMO.

Picked my daughter up from kindergarten on the way home and squeezed of about 35 shots.

I will have to admit, controls are more intuitive on the K10D even with me having 2+ years exp with the Nikon.
Will shoot the Nikon over the balance of the holidays and see where I end up.

And update us on your progress -- even if you decide to keep the Nikon. I like having "closure" on these issues. I think you were smart to buy local so you could have this flexibility.

I tried to buy locally, in spite of the higher price, for the same reasons but my shop said, basically, you buy it - it's yours.

They also pushed the aftermarket lenses far too hard in addition to the extended warranty. "If you have a question we'll be here for you" no longer cuts it when most information is available here and on other forums.

I finally went for the Dell 20% deal and can only hope they deliver.

I'd truly like to know if you come back to the K10 since I handled the D80 and the K10 for an hour or so and preferred the Pentax (though both were wonderful handling cameras).

Dan

(a) Stories of customer service like this are few and far between.

(b) The only way you're going to get a decision which works for you** is to shoot with both cameras.

You're getting more of a chance to do that than most people. Keep telling your story. The only way this kind of thing will keep happening is if people support local stores as you have done.

wchp said:

I Purchased the K10D at a local camera store (gasp... no not
online) and paid about an extra $50 for it in doing do.
I went back down to the store this morning and they took the K10D
back and put a D80 with a 18-70 lens in my hands and said to go
shoot it for a month and come back and he would give me whichever
one I settled on.

Click to expand...

I just wonder where all those used cameras goes? They sell them as new to other their customers?

--
Edvinas