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Can you check if a JPEG has been post-processed or if it is out-of-camera?

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Anders KV

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Hello world!

I am asking because of a photo contest where the participants must take 5 pictures with their cams. The pictures that they take must be delivered straight out of the camera with NO post-processing work at all! But is it possible to check this.

Is it possible with some sort of program to analyse a JPEG and tell wether or not the photo was straight-out-of-the-cam or if it has been post-processed?

A participant can easily sharpen and give his/her photo more contrast and saturation in photoshop on a laptop and then pretend that it is straight out of the camera!

So is there a way to tell if post processing has taken place, or is it impossible to see wether a JPEG has been post-processed or if it is out-of-camera?

Sinc
Andrew
 
There are programs out there that will let you edit Exif data so I would have to say that there is no way to tell if it came 'straight from the camera' unless you saw them take the pic and then confiscated their memory card. ;)

For this contest, is processing inside the camera allowed? Heck, you can sharpen, add saturation, change color, add contrast, etc in most cameras. Some even allow you to crop and do more advanced things. Is that all that different than using a photo editor?

But, to get back to your question, I think the judges are going to have to rely on the integrity of the photographers as to whether they post processed or not.

--
Stujoe -
http://www.digitalphotopeople.com

Panasonic FZ7
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The short answer - no.You really can't tell from the EXIf information whether a jpeg's been processed or not. The only way to make sure, I think, is to shoot Raw and post them the original NEFs - which is something I'd never do in a million years!

If you post them your original images, you have no proof of your own copyright... :-/

Nick
 
I think there's, in EXIF data, a paramater for the date and time when the picture has been modified for the last time.

If this date does not match the date and time when the picture was shot, that could be a proof of modification.

Lionel
 
I'm wondering what their intention is with that. With most DSLR's the file from the camera is just the begining. Perhaps what their intent is to have participants do their composition in the camera and not allow any cropping. Post processing it what digital photography is all about.
--
Dave Lewis
 
It's difficult, but there are some clues that can let you know if an image has been post processed.

One easy way is to check the dimensions of the photograph. Most cameras take photos at similar aspect ratios (3:2, 4:3, etc.) and resolutions, 1024x768, for example. If the photo doesn't conform to one of these common dimensions, it's been altered, even if that just means cropping.

Many people have their cameras set to save images as jpegs. If they have opened them in an editing program and then re-saved the image the image has been double compressed. Many times when this happens artifacts or halos will appear in the image. This is another giveaway the image has been post processed.
--
http://www.flickr.com/photos/vegasrob/sets/
 
Dave Lewis said:
I'm wondering what their intention is with that. With most DSLR's
the file from the camera is just the begining. Perhaps what their
intent is to have participants do their composition in the camera
and not allow any cropping. Post processing it what digital
photography is all about.
--
Dave Lewis
Click to expand...
More than likely, the intention is to level the field with film shooters who may be participating in this contest along with digital shooters.

Or, maybe, the idea is that in this contest the winner should be the best photographer and not the best photoshop wiz.

BTW. Digital photography is NOT about post processing. It is about photography with digital cameras.

--
Andrew Kalinowski
Photography: http://www.FotoCanada.ca
Maps http://www.topocanada.com
GPS and mapping: http://www.GPSNuts.com Recreational
 
Anders KV said:
Hello world!

I am asking because of a photo contest where the participants must
take 5 pictures with their cams. The pictures that they take must
be delivered straight out of the camera with NO post-processing
work at all! But is it possible to check this.
Is it possible with some sort of program to analyse a JPEG and tell
wether or not the photo was straight-out-of-the-cam or if it has
been post-processed?

A participant can easily sharpen and give his/her photo more
contrast and saturation in photoshop on a laptop and then pretend
that it is straight out of the camera!

So is there a way to tell if post processing has taken place, or is
it impossible to see wether a JPEG has been post-processed or if it
is out-of-camera?

Sinc
Andrew
Click to expand...
A lot depends on the skill of the cheater and the skill of the checker and the camera used. In theory, with files from most cameras, it would be possible to edit the file so the edit would be hardly detectable yet, a slightest slip and everybody will know that the cheater is... nothing more than a cheater.

For few years now, I enter into "One Day In The Life Of Burlington" photo competition. It's a contest that takes place over a 24 hr period. A day before, film shooters get a marked 36 roll and digital shooters get their cards checked and marked. The cards (and film) have to be returned the day after the competition and, the first 40 consecutive shots get printed on 4X6 (deleted file counts as a shot) and from these contestant can choose up to 2 images that they enter into the competition. These are printed on 10" paper and judged. Film, digital, SLR, dSLR, P&S, compact, whatever, side by side all what counts is the skill of the photographer. It's lots of fun. Anyway; I do believe that beside brains, some sort of authentication software is used to make sure that the files were not altered but, I never enquired aout the details - they don't really matter to me - the rules are for the honest people so, I play by the rules.

--
Andrew Kalinowski
Photography: http://www.FotoCanada.ca
Maps http://www.topocanada.com
GPS and mapping: http://www.GPSNuts.com Recreational
 
Well show me your day in day out straight from the camera stuff and I'll show you some pretty needy shots. Sure point and shoot cameras might well push everything to a level folks wow over but DSLR's almost all of the time benefit from post processing. I'll not play word games with you, but I will again emphasize that post processing is digital photography. Without it you are only part way.
GPSMapNut said:
BTW. Digital photography is NOT about post processing. It is about
photography with digital cameras.
Click to expand...
--
Dave Lewis
 
If that's the way you see it, it's fine with me. I know that many others see it your way and I have no problem with that. It's just not the way I and some others see it so, lets simply agree to disagree.

BTW. My day in - day out from the camera are in my galleries.
--
Andrew Kalinowski
Photography: http://www.FotoCanada.ca
Maps http://www.topocanada.com
GPS and mapping: http://www.GPSNuts.com Recreational
 
digital photography the way you describe simply is a contest about who is the best or competant photoshop person. this does not make the photographer.

MY goal is to shoot in the field in such a way that pp is to all practical purposes eliminated. i want to shoot pics not manipulate them on a pc so that eventually they have no relationship to the original scene. for example-if i am standing there and i cannot see into the dark heavy shadow areas of a scene then as far as i am concerned i do not have the right to regain the dark areas in pp. they were not visible in the real world they should not visible in reproduction of it, meaning the photograph.

i started taking pics 36yrs ago shooting slides. at first i threw many out, since with slides what you shoot is what you get. if one keeps shooting bad slides it cost a lot of money in film and developing. at time went on i got better and better with less throw outs. 4yrs ago i switched to digital. i am currently running about 5% of my total shoots that i do any pp at all. i take the time in the field to make sure they are good to go from the camera. i do not understand what people are doing when they state all fixes corrections and adjustments they are doing in photoshop. all this states is that didn't do much of a photographic job in the field. so that when they get to their pc they can now turn bad photographs into reasonable quality ones. i simply prefer to start with a good pic making pp unnessessary. yes, i have pe3 and cs2, and can use them if needed which i prefer to be very seldom.

my view. gary
 
I don't know why people go on about post processing digital pictures. It happened with film too. Even if you took your film down to your local Walgreens there were adjustments made. If one was competent enough to develop their own film and create their own prints there were several tricks and processes to use to manipulate images. Digital cameras and PP software just make this easier and faster. I'll take the Photoshop any day over spending all day in a dark room dodging and burning and trying contrast filter after contrast filter. Image editing software is nothing new, it's just faster.
--
http://www.flickr.com/photos/vegasrob/sets/
 
Of course it can tell if you had post-processed. Software like Nikon View shows the full EXIF info including what lens used. After you had process the picture, there is no more lens info. Lots of other softwares can also tell. The picture after PP, the EXIF info may even disappear.
 
GPSMapNut said:
Dave Lewis said:
I'm wondering what their intention is with that. With most DSLR's
the file from the camera is just the begining. Perhaps what their
intent is to have participants do their composition in the camera
and not allow any cropping. Post processing it what digital
photography is all about.
--
Dave Lewis
Click to expand...
More than likely, the intention is to level the field with film
shooters who may be participating in this contest along with
digital shooters.
Click to expand...
Even film is 'post processed', color corrected at the lab where film is processed. And, if one has his/her own darkroom, one can 'burn, didge' to his/her hearts content.
GPSMapNut said:
Or, maybe, the idea is that in this contest the winner should be
the best photographer and not the best photoshop wiz.

BTW. Digital photography is NOT about post processing. It is about
photography with digital cameras.
Click to expand...
I DO agree with this point, althoughmany can get a much (subjectively) nicer image with PP.
GPSMapNut said:
--
Andrew Kalinowski
Photography: http://www.FotoCanada.ca
Maps http://www.topocanada.com
GPS and mapping: http://www.GPSNuts.com Recreational
Click to expand...
--
shinndigg
 
shinndigg said:
Even film is 'post processed', color corrected at the lab where
film is processed. And, if one has his/her own darkroom, one can
'burn, didge' to his/her hearts content.
Click to expand...
Ahm, actualy film does not get "post processed". It gets, processed. For slide film, processing is normally end of the road. For negative, it (again) can be simply processed into prints or it may be manipulated = post processed. Just like a raw file can be processed into a JPG or it can be edited (post processed). The option is up to the photographer.

Andrew Kalinowski
Photography: http://www.FotoCanada.ca
Maps http://www.topocanada.com
GPS and mapping: http://www.GPSNuts.com Recreational
 
leungtao said:
leungtao said:
leungtao said:
snip> > > Software like
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
Nikon View shows the full EXIF info including what lens used.
After you had process the picture, there is no more lens info.
Lots of other softwares can also tell. The picture after PP, the
EXIF info may even disappear.
Click to expand...
This is mostly incorrect. If the image is edited (for example) with Nikon Capture, all of the original EXIF is retained however, a note with the software name is added to the EXIF. That note could easily be edited / removed with any EXIF editor.Still, there are other clues that could give it away.
--
Andrew Kalinowski
Photography: http://www.FotoCanada.ca
Maps http://www.topocanada.com
GPS and mapping: http://www.GPSNuts.com Recreational
 
But... you got the point, film/slide photography CAN be manipulated. Same difference.
--
shinndigg
 
nifi said:
If you post them your original images, you have no proof of your
own copyright... :-/
Click to expand...
Not necessarilly. The D80 allows you to insert a "comment" in every image header. This would let you place a copyright notice in your NEF right out of the camera.
 
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