"Grey Market" D200

Hi - I need some help with a recent purchase of a Nikon D200. I purchased it in Australia from a "discount camera store" ie not Authorised Nikon dealer. Yes I know thats my first mistake! It is a "Grey Market" Camera, but what is done is done!

I now have issues with the camera. Most images are soft and also have backfocus problems. I have been a photographer for over 20 years so all of the usual "did you check the shutter speed" and did you use a tripod" have been eliminated. I use only Nikkor lens (70-200 VR) 17-35 2.8 and 60 mm macro. (I have also a D70 which is shooting sharp images...although that camera has been back for repair (under warranty I might add) you guessed it - purchased from an Authorised dealer!) There is also a problem with the D200's LCD screen..it has a line extending from one side almost to the other side.

I have phoned the store I purchased it from and they said they will fix if at one of their repairers (they offer 12 months warranty). I have spoken to Nikon Australia who will not touch the camera UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES - even if I offer to pay for the repair. They also told me that the repairer that the store would use will not be an authorised repairer...

I dont want any backyard repairer looking at my 2 month old D200!!

What are my options? Can i send it back to Nikon in Japan for repair. I'm not concerned about how long it will take - I just want authorised Nikon repairs carried out on it.

Also can anyone enlighten me on the "Grey Market" camera trade. I assume they are all made by the same factory and that they are priced differently according to the import duties of different countries and according to the overheads and "cutting out the middleman" thus reducing costs. Do I have an inferior camera??

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

Regards D

I have bought a D200 from them as well, I think mine might have had the Japanese warranty card and ph no did yours?

Grey market means the camera was not imported from Nikon Australia, rather the shop was the direct importer from Japan. The camera might have been bound for Australia anyway or possibly some other country like the USA.

That's the risk you take getting something cheaper, is the warranty will be more hassell should you need to claim.

Now that Nikon has taken over from Maxwells the prices have dropped to match that of grey market so there is no advantage to deal with grey marketers anymore.

I guess you will just have to let them fix it

Dave333 said:

What are my options? Can i send it back to Nikon in Japan for
repair. I'm not concerned about how long it will take - I just
want authorised Nikon repairs carried out on it.

Click to expand...

It will probably work to send it to Nikon in Japan with a letter explaining that you bought gray market by mistake. There is no valid Nikon warranty on the camera, so Nikon Japan is not obligated to repair it, but they very probably will do so anyway.

Don't tell anyone I told you this, but it's even possible that you could get Nikon Japan to "ask" Nikon Australia to do the repair as a courtesy, if you sent a good letter to Nikon Japan's overseas sales department. I saw this work a couple of times when I was a Nikon sales rep in the U.S. -- customers who bought gray market in my territory got Nikon Japan to "ask" us (Nikon U.S.A.) to do a courtesy warranty repair. It was phrased as a request but of course we were not at liberty to say no. It did not make us happy at all, but we did it.

Dave333 said:

Also can anyone enlighten me on the "Grey Market" camera trade. I
assume they are all made by the same factory and that they are
priced differently according to the import duties of different
countries and according to the overheads and "cutting out the
middleman" thus reducing costs. Do I have an inferior camera??

Click to expand...

They're all made in the same factory; you do not have an inferior camera. The pricing differences can arise out of several factors, depending on which region of the world is under discussion, but one big factor is that gray market distribution channels often bypass the stage in the normal distribution process where Nikon's subsidiaries collect the funds to pay for warranty repair, other customer support activities (telephone technical support etc.), and advertising.

Dave333 said:

What are my options? Can i send it back to Nikon in Japan for
repair. I'm not concerned about how long it will take - I just
want authorised Nikon repairs carried out on it.

Click to expand...

I have read from these forums (dpreview.ocm / Nikon-forums) that the Nikon Japan service shops are not easy to find (the mailing address in web), but that they do repair the camera or lens. Your D200 must have Nikon international 1 yr warranty (and you have a receipt to proof when you bought it etc, and also there are yet no D200 units that are out of factory warranty since it shipped less than a year ago...), so you should be fine but will have to pay for the shipping.

I would search these forums about Nikon repairs in Japan. I might remember all wrong but I recall that Thom Hogan had some knowledge about the Japan repairs, or perhaps he just shared some other information in a thread about similar problems. Maybe he will notice this thread and reply to you, but you might also send him e-mail asking if he has the information where to send your dSLR in Japan. As far as I remember the Japan service quality was said to be of superior quality, at least better than Nikon service in general outside Japan, so sending it into Japan has also other benefits for you.

I hope your D200 will be back soon and in perfect condition!

--
Osku

Many thanks for all those who have replied...I will chase up with Nikon in Japan for repairs and let you know how I go.

If anyone has any contact details for where to send my camera for serviceing covered under Nikon warranty - it would be greatly appreciated.

Regards Dave

Thanks again!

What about paying to have it repaired at an independent Nikon qualified repair shop in your area that does out of warranty work? Surely there are some in your area. I can think of three within 5 miles of my house here.
--
JohnE
Equipment list in profile

Not trying to start a confrontation and I won't go into discussion how it all comes from the same factory and should be warrantied regardless, but how I see it, people who didn't buy grey market and bought through authorized dealers paid that "premium" to have the warranty. When you bought grey you basically "waived" warranty for a lower price. I just don't see it being fair that you're now trying to get warranty coverage which u didn't pay for, but others have.

I see you offered to pay for the repairs but Nikon always said no. Maybe you can work out a deal with Nikon Japan. Goodluck.

Heck said:

Not trying to start a confrontation and I won't go into discussion
how it all comes from the same factory and should be warrantied
regardless, but how I see it, people who didn't buy grey market and
bought through authorized dealers paid that "premium" to have the
warranty. When you bought grey you basically "waived" warranty for
a lower price. I just don't see it being fair that you're now
trying to get warranty coverage which u didn't pay for, but others
have.

Click to expand...

I feel (strongly) that your logic is flawed.

Manufacturer A made a device and sold it. It has international (global) warranty. Some importers do not honor the warranty since they do not want to show less profit annually (quarterly) to the mother company (in this case Nikon Japan). But if the user did not pay (extra) for the local warranty, then he just has to pay the shipping to the factory to get a factory repair done under the products international warranty.

In fact that is less profitable for Nikon since Nikon has to pay for the return shipment, and it would be cheaper to just do it in the users country. On the other side there is the fact that there would be more gray market sales if the warranty would be honored, and again there is the PR damage the current system has as a result.

Our local Nikon Finland did not previously accept European warranty but forced to do so after a court ruling (EU laws say they have to honor the warranty). No customer did complain, but the biggest computer store in Finland did.

--
Osku

I just used the words "Nikon + Japan + Address" and bingo, the first result is the exact post I was referring to. Ok, it does not have the address

Just see this thread:
http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1021&message=20362181

And you really might ask Thom by e-mail if he knows the one valid address to Nikon Japan service facility. He does answer to every proper e-mail so he will also tell you if he does not. At least he might know where you should look for that information for.

You might also be able to find the addresses form here (Nikon Japan web site in English):
http://www.nikon.co.jp/main/eng/portfolio/index.htm

--
Osku

Have you asked the store who would repair your camera? There are not too many camera repair shops left in Oz and a number of them are authorised Nikon repairers. Camera Clinic in Melbourne and Andersons in Brisbane are two that immediately spring to mind.
--
eric burrows

When I buy my gear, I get the canadian warranty, my warranty claim is with Nikon Canada, the prices are a lot higher here than compared to the US due to exchange rates, import fees, etc etc etc, in return I get 2 years for camera bodies and 5 years for lenses. This is the agreement with Nikon Canada upon purchasing and not with Nikon Japan.

Now because gear is cheaper in another country XYZ, they sell it to a grey market dealer in Canada, in return they resell as grey, they just bypassed Nikon Canada totally. And the original warranty with Nikon XYZ is void because it was not imported into Canada properly, protecting Nikon Canada.

I agree with your logic at a consumer standpoint that since it was made by Nikon Japan anyway, and only "distrbuted" to Nikon (whatever country), an international warranty should be implemented, since a dead grey camera is the same dead non grey camera. But that's not how the game is played and this is their way of protecting Nikon (whatever country) and authorized dealers. Is it illegal? Even while living in Quebec with very strong consumer protection, Nikon is allowed to do this because in the end, the gov't can only go to Nikon Canada, and Nikon Canada is legally saying, that camera wasn't from us.

That all being said, despite me agreeing to Nikon's approach to this, I have a gripe with their policy of not touching grey products at. I think they should repair and just charge it.

Heck said:

When I buy my gear, I get the canadian warranty, my warranty claim
is with Nikon Canada, the prices are a lot higher here than
compared to the US due to exchange rates, import fees, etc etc etc,
in return I get 2 years for camera bodies and 5 years for lenses.
This is the agreement with Nikon Canada upon purchasing and not
with Nikon Japan.

Now because gear is cheaper in another country XYZ, they sell it to
a grey market dealer in Canada, in return they resell as grey, they
just bypassed Nikon Canada totally. And the original warranty with
Nikon XYZ is void because it was not imported into Canada properly,
protecting Nikon Canada.

Click to expand...

Nikon Japan owns 100% all its subsidiaries (not the few importers that are non Nikon like in Spain, or is that too now a Nikon, am not sure). All the profits from Nikon Canada go in the end to Nikon Japan. The reason these subsidiaries do not want to honor the warranties of other Nikon subsidiaries is that the warranty repair costs, and their own bottom line will look worse in front of Nikon Japan if they do make such repairs. Nikon should have a policy how to report the costs of international warranty repairs outside the subsidiary´s own actual business.

In EU area (most of the Europe) you can buy the item anywhere inside EU, and the law makes it clear that the manufacturer will be responsible for manufacturing defects the next 2 years, no matter where you bought the item (if it is inside the EU). Also, if you have bought the item yourself outside EU, the international warranty is accepted as long as the manufacturer has own (not owned by some other importing company) subsidiaries there. The legislation in Europe is done to protect the customer. In EU there is no label nor anything else (in Nikon products) you could see in the shop if the item is grey import or not. There is no US engraved in front of the serial number, no different warranty card.

Heck said:

I agree with your logic at a consumer standpoint that since it was
made by Nikon Japan anyway, and only "distrbuted" to Nikon
(whatever country), an international warranty should be
implemented, since a dead grey camera is the same dead non grey
camera.

Click to expand...

No, that is not "my logic". All Nikon cameras that are not "US models" or "Canada models" do have inside the box a "Nikon international warranty" paper, the warranty card. That is removed by the Nikon USA and Nikon Canada and replaced with a Nikon USA warranty card or Nikon Canada warranty card. So you never get to see those, but in Europe and Asia (and BH grey items) there is only Nikon International Warranty cards, no national warranty cards like what you get there.

Consider it from Nikon´s standpoint: It sells a camera that has a flaw. It needs to be repaired. It sells actually huge quantities grey items in Asia, and in Asia Nikon does not bother that those are problems for some other Nikon subsidiaries. Does Nikon Japan ("the mother company") have now a right to not honor the warranty? No it does not. And if you buy a camera form country A) and import it to B), you will have always the right to go back to country B) (yourself or ship the item there) and get the repair don in warranty if it is still valid (1-5 years typically). So they grey market camera has been bought from Nikon, and in almost all cases from some Nikon Asia subsidiary (Japan, Hong Kong etc). If they would not have to honor the repairs since the buyer lives in an other country, they might just sell all the non working units to grey market since they would not have to repair any of those... So every "grey" item has a place where it has been purchased and the warranty is valid there and in the factory.

IMHO you seem to have a twisted logic (maybe I am wrong?), and you feel (?) that since you have paid premium for Nikon Canada (or work for it), the other that have not paid the premium should (in revenge) not be able to get their cameras repaired for warranty even the item (always) has a 1 year Nikon International Warranty.

Heck said:

But that's not how the game is played and this is their way
of protecting Nikon (whatever country) and authorized dealers. Is
it illegal? Even while living in Quebec with very strong consumer
protection, Nikon is allowed to do this because in the end, the
gov't can only go to Nikon Canada, and Nikon Canada is legally
saying, that camera wasn't from us.

Click to expand...

Yes, they CAN do that. But in EU area they can not, unless the item was bought outside the EU. And if you send a grey item to the country of its origin, it has been bought from Nikon there. And if you send ANY Nikon item to Nikon Japan, and do not have any warranty papers, but you do have a proper receipt of purchase, they do have to honor the warranty. There is no way around it. That costs Nikon dearly, and the return shipments are expensive. But they do at the same time sell items to grey market knowingly, and do make it hard for consumers to find the address where those should be shipped for repair if/when needed to avoid the (repair and) return shipment fees. Those shipping fees would not be there if they repaired the items in the destination country. Or if they did not sell items to grey market themselves...

Heck said:

That all being said, despite me agreeing to Nikon's approach to
this, I have a gripe with their policy of not touching grey
products at. I think they should repair and just charge it.

Click to expand...

They should repair, and charge Nikon Japan for the repair and have a way to do that so that it is marked to be a Nikon Japan responsibility that does not end to the last line of that subsidiary´s profits annually. Nikon subsidiaries have been reported not to have any way to show these expenses as anything else but its own expenses. Nikon Japan has just calculated this will be in its interests or they just ignore it since it is too complicated to deal with.

--
Osku

Dave333 said:

I dont want any backyard repairer looking at my 2 month old D200!!

Click to expand...

[although he repairs them in his backyard ]

I totally agree with Osku. I suspect if someone challenges Nikon USA or Nikon Canada in court, Nikon USA and Nikon Canada will lose for not honoring grey market product and won't even service them when the consumer with the defective product is willing to pay for the repair. This is like buying a GM car from a different dealer and your local dealer won't honor a warranty repair. Just because the vendor won't do something doesn't make it right. I suspect if I were in that position, I would request the help of a national consumer advocacy group for help to pursue a lawsuit against Nikon for refusing to honor warranty repairs. I am quite certain some trial lawyers would welcome a class action lawsuit against Nikon as well. I wonder what the WTO would say about trade barrier such as this.

I also think writing a nice letter to Nikon in Japan and see if Japan can request the Australian subsidiary to do the repair. I have heard that before too. I further agree that Thom Hogan is an excellent source. He is very generous with his time.

Here in the U.S., at least on the B&H web site, it looks like there is little price advantage buying grey market products. I just sent in my SB-800 for warranty service and Nikon USA is working on it. they have a service code B2, I believe it stands for moderate repair with major part replacement. Somehow, the two just don't jive with one another. Oh well, at least they are fixing it.

Good Luck.
Guy

I don't think my logic is twisted but how Nikon is playing its cards, which I view as archaic.

Yes all Nikon subsidiaries are owned by Nikon Japan in the end, but they function in an autonomus fashion where the employees are working for and paid by Nikon Canada (as example) not Nikon Japan. Their pay stub doesn't say Nikon Japan. That being said, they aren't "honoring" the warranty because there was never an agreement at point of purchase with Nikon Canada. And yes the bottom line is money. Obviously each country has their diff standard of living, levels of income etc etc, therefore let's say it's cheaper in Hong Kong, if after import taxes etc it's still cheaper and I get it there instead, I just bypassed Nikon Canada and Nikon authorized dealers in Canada. If everyone did this, Nikon Canada and its dealers wouldn't be around for long. So at the business end, I would want to protect my subsidiary and dealers who work hard to get Nikon products.

I understand the point of manufacturer warranty. Nikon Canada is just the middle man in regards to a product without any modifications for each country. Nikon is not let's say Ford Europe and Ford North America where the products are quite different depending on country due to safety, emissions etc.

I also know about the EU laws where the consumers are protected, but that is EU law, and let's say Canada/USA, they also have their own laws regarding protecting customers. Even within Canada, Quebec where I reside have even tougher and better consumer laws.

Despite this all, if Nikon was REALLY trying to protect their subsidiaries and dealers, they would stamp out grey market, but at the greedy end, a grey market camera rings up as another camera sold to them anyway. Or as the world if getting smaller, and economy more global, they can consolidate this all and offer one standardized warranty. But in the meantime, let it be their intentions of protecting, or greed or what not, the archaic policy and sometimes border line illegal policy is what I work by and thus, why I go to a Canadian authroized dealer buying a nikon canada imported product.

As I mentioned before though, my gripe is how they won't even touch grey imports. I would agree in them charging because the agreement of warranty was not with Nikon Japan, but that is with laws here, and not EU laws like you.

But here's the thing regarding your GM dealership analogy. When you buy a car, you buy it from an authorized GM dealer which bought their products from GM Canada. Since you bought it from GM Canada, you can bring it to any GM dealer to fix because they are all under GM Canada.

Now if you were in the US and your car breaks down, because your car was properly bought from a GM Canada dealer, GM USA can fix it also under warranty due to agreements within North America, but your warranty claim is actually with GM Canada in the end. I won't get into the logistics of this, but this is easier done because of more of a GM North America operation. But let's say you drove your car to France, you may have a tough time getting it fixed there as GM Europe is not GM Canada or GM USA, hell they might not even have that model or parts. Or vice versa, if I bought a GM Opel, I don't think GM USA/Canada has any experiene with this GM at all even let's say it's the same underpinnings of a Saturn.

But this analogy is furthered flawed since these GM subsidiaries offer greatly different products from country to country, and even then, try to bring a US car into Canada or vice versa and ur paying through the roof for a speedometer swap, emissions test, various crash requirements i.e. GM has to crash a few more cars for transport canada despite passing US's TSB, whereas for Nikon a D200 is a D200 worlwide.

I'd go for the local repairer first, then if it wasn't done properly, go for Nikon Jpn.

Any chance of getting hit with import tax when it arrives back through Aust, customs?
--
Rudi
15 years of photography in Blade Runner Tokyo - back in Sunny Sydney now

If it was sent out of country for warranty repair, there shouldn't be any customs duties or taxes charged when getting it back. Most companies also know how to ship it back via means where brokerage fees (unrelated to gov't duties and taxes) are paid before hand by the company. Sometimes though companies slip up and you have end up paying the brokerage fees, but u can ask for it back. Worse case scenario regarding Customs is that Customs can request docmentation that it was imported legally, such as a receipt that it was bought locally, or the receipt to duties paid etc.

I know its been a long time since i have responded to this thread...but thank you so much for all who replied...and I have leant much about "Grey Market" gear...and dare say I wont be heading down that road again!.

I did, in the end return it to place of purchase and they have made the repairs under warranty. The supplier was cagey about the repairs (no fault report even after asking for one) as i suspect they still want me to believe that it is not "Grey". Since it came back with the language set to another language!!! I can be pretty safe in saying it went back to Nikon - Hong Konk or Japan for repair. Pitty I cant recognise either!

Camera seems to be working OK now.....I have tested it with a friends D200 which is NOT grey and we could not pick any differences.

Many thanks again..I appreciate all your responses...

Now for another question..this time re using multiple flashes. I will post a separate Thread called D200, SB800 and Metz 60CT4 Combo

Dave

http://www.davidhardin.com.au

Well the Nikon New Zealand agent will handle your camera repair if you pay them. Have had a couple of grey market bodies serviced by them.

Camera Services Ltd
Address:
60 Mt Eden Road
Mt Eden
Auckland NZ

Phone: +649 630 3777

Dave333 said:

Hi - I need some help with a recent purchase of a Nikon D200. I
purchased it in Australia from a "discount camera store" ie not
Authorised Nikon dealer. Yes I know thats my first mistake! It is a
"Grey Market" Camera, but what is done is done!

I now have issues with the camera. Most images are soft and also
have backfocus problems. I have been a photographer for over 20
years so all of the usual "did you check the shutter speed" and did
you use a tripod" have been eliminated. I use only Nikkor lens
(70-200 VR) 17-35 2.8 and 60 mm macro. (I have also a D70 which is
shooting sharp images...although that camera has been back for repair
(under warranty I might add) you guessed it - purchased from an
Authorised dealer!) There is also a problem with the D200's LCD
screen..it has a line extending from one side almost to the other
side.

I have phoned the store I purchased it from and they said they will
fix if at one of their repairers (they offer 12 months warranty). I
have spoken to Nikon Australia who will not touch the camera UNDER
ANY CIRCUMSTANCES - even if I offer to pay for the repair. They also
told me that the repairer that the store would use will not be an
authorised repairer...

I dont want any backyard repairer looking at my 2 month old D200!!

What are my options? Can i send it back to Nikon in Japan for
repair. I'm not concerned about how long it will take - I just want
authorised Nikon repairs carried out on it.

Also can anyone enlighten me on the "Grey Market" camera trade. I
assume they are all made by the same factory and that they are priced
differently according to the import duties of different countries and
according to the overheads and "cutting out the middleman" thus
reducing costs. Do I have an inferior camera??

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

Regards D

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