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K10D and SD card Performance

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Cideway said:
Okay in my informal test the camera can do about 75 DNGs a minute.
Click to expand...
WOW. That IS impressive. However, I cannot ever see me needing that sort of image rate. There maybe some who need it of course, so it's nice to know they have the option.

Thanks again for doing your little test. :-)
Cideway said:
--
I gots the K...10D

Info thread for new Pentax SLR users:
http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1036&message=19455961

GMT +9.5
Click to expand...
--
Lance B

http://www.pbase.com/lance_b
GMT +10hours

 
Lance B said:
GordonBGood said:
Now the only quible I have is, if Pentax can capture, process, and
save images at better than 0.33 seconds in JPEG, why do they force
us to have an embedded full size JPEG at maximum compressed *
quality where as they could decompress and display the raw in about
0.5 seconds in playback mode? It probably takes them almost this
long to display the embedded JPEG including decompression. Having
the embedded JPEG made sense when they had slower processing in
previous DSLR's, but now with brand new PEF and DNG formats, why
did they not take the oportunity to get rid of it for a saving of
about 1.3 MBytes per raw file. Of course, they may have been
trapped into it because owners of Pentax cameras have gotten used
to being able to access this JPEG using different utilities and
viewers.
Click to expand...
I take it what you are saying above is, if you are shooting in RAW
why can't the RAW image be displayed on the LCD instead of a jpeg?

If that is what you mean, I too would rather look at a RAW image
rather than a jpeg which will alter the exposure slightly.
Click to expand...
Lance, that is exactly what I mean, as the camera would seem to be capable of it in terms of speed, and I would like to reduce raw image sizes by the extra 1.3 MBytes used by the embedded JPEG.

As for speed of viewing on a computer, I have a DNG/PEF viewer under development that can view full size images from 10 MP raw at about 1 second per image on my old AMD 1700+ (1.467 GHz), so I don't see that properly written applications need to spend so long decoding raw data.

Best regards, GordonBGood

PS: K10D envy; have fun with your new baby!
 
GordonBGood said:
Lance B said:
GordonBGood said:
Now the only quible I have is, if Pentax can capture, process, and
save images at better than 0.33 seconds in JPEG, why do they force
us to have an embedded full size JPEG at maximum compressed *
quality where as they could decompress and display the raw in about
0.5 seconds in playback mode? It probably takes them almost this
long to display the embedded JPEG including decompression. Having
the embedded JPEG made sense when they had slower processing in
previous DSLR's, but now with brand new PEF and DNG formats, why
did they not take the oportunity to get rid of it for a saving of
about 1.3 MBytes per raw file. Of course, they may have been
trapped into it because owners of Pentax cameras have gotten used
to being able to access this JPEG using different utilities and
viewers.
Click to expand...
I take it what you are saying above is, if you are shooting in RAW
why can't the RAW image be displayed on the LCD instead of a jpeg?

If that is what you mean, I too would rather look at a RAW image
rather than a jpeg which will alter the exposure slightly.
Click to expand...
Lance, that is exactly what I mean, as the camera would seem to be
capable of it in terms of speed, and I would like to reduce raw
image sizes by the extra 1.3 MBytes used by the embedded JPEG.
Click to expand...
That would be good!
GordonBGood said:
As for speed of viewing on a computer, I have a DNG/PEF viewer
under development that can view full size images from 10 MP raw at
about 1 second per image on my old AMD 1700+ (1.467 GHz), so I
don't see that properly written applications need to spend so long
decoding raw data.
Click to expand...
It does seem a little strange that the engineers couldn't come up with something. Maybe they can do something in firmware?
GordonBGood said:
Best regards, GordonBGood

PS: K10D envy; have fun with your new baby!
Click to expand...
It's a steep learning curve, Gordon. I knew the *ist D and it's idiocyncracies very well, so now I have the K10D, I have to learn some new ones. It does meter/expose differently, but I haven't put my finger how/why yet.

I did a few quick test shots between the D and the K10D both set to ISO200 with the same lens, same aperture same conditions but the shutter speeds were different even though the histograms looked almost identical. I think there maybe some credence in the theory that the D's ISO200 is actually higher than this (and maybe the K10D is different too). The shutter difference was between 1/3 and almost 1 stop faster on the D than the K10D, yet histograms would indicate otherwise. No even allowing for slight variations in the daylight that was coming through the window, I wouldn't expect such variations.

--
Lance B

http://www.pbase.com/lance_b
GMT +10hours

 
is the standard card fast enough to be dilled without interruption?
--
Jacques Bijtebier
 
10 DNG and 9 PEF in the first burst before my K10D paused. I have a quality RiData 150x card (i.e. supposed to be faster than Extreme III but I am sure the K10D can't make use of the full speed
Spot Focus said:
Hi thanks for the tests Can you give us an idea of the FPS in the
inital burst
--
Click to expand...
It's specificed by Pentax at 3fps and that sounds right (I didn't bench test with equipment - the only way to be accurate)

--
Brett
http://www.pbase.com/shreder



The Journey is the Thing
 
Brett St Pierre said:
10 DNG and 9 PEF in the first burst before my K10D paused. I have a
quality RiData 150x card (i.e. supposed to be faster than Extreme
III but I am sure the K10D can't make use of the full speed
Click to expand...
Sad to hear, as I have a 4GB 150x Ridata.

I tried searching for sustained write times, and IIRC I found 7mb/s.
I.E: 46x

What really surprised me is that he tested a standard Sandisk,
and got ... 12 frames? I had thought that was a very slow card.

Does your Ridata manage continuous jpg?

--
cheers!

Gunn

-- Get a big lens and get closer™.

http://www.dpreview.pentaxistDS.photoshare.co.nz
http://www.y3m.net/penwik/pmwiki.php/Main/PentaxLensWiki
FAQ: http://www.pentaxuser.org/tiki-index.php

 
You can delete all the pics on a card except one, rename it to the number of your choosing and stick it back in the cam - the next pic taken willl follow the number from that one up :)

At least thats what it does on the DS etc.

Dave

--
GMT +9:30
http://www.colourpixels.net
Click on Dave on the menu

 
Brett St Pierre said:
10 DNG and 9 PEF in the first burst before my K10D paused. I have a
quality RiData 150x card (i.e. supposed to be faster than Extreme
III but I am sure the K10D can't make use of the full speed
Click to expand...
In case of K10D, I think it can make the full use of the write speed; and it can probably exceed many of the slower card write speed. You test results probably showed that Extreme III performed better in K10D than your RiData.

It will be interesting if everyone can do this simple test with their SD card (how many DNG & PEF RAW burst frames before pausing), so that we have a collection of data for other users looking for a SD card.

The 150x means very little to the real world speed. K10D needs fast sustained write speed. 150x refers to burst read speed. And it is sometimes impossible to find the real specs of the sustained write speed.

SDHC at least put a minimum speed guarantee (class 2, 4 or 6), but again, it tells us very little about its maximum sustained write speed.
 
Bich said:
is the standard card fast enough to be dilled without interruption?
--
Jacques Bijtebier
Click to expand...
Not sure about a 'standard' card but with my RiData 150x I 10mp JPEG setting I just held the shutter down for over 100 frames and it never missed a beat before I gave up... 3fps all the way!

--
Brett
http://www.pbase.com/shreder



The Journey is the Thing
 
lak said:
Brett St Pierre said:
10 DNG and 9 PEF in the first burst before my K10D paused. I have a
quality RiData 150x card (i.e. supposed to be faster than Extreme
III but I am sure the K10D can't make use of the full speed
Click to expand...
In case of K10D, I think it can make the full use of the write
speed; and it can probably exceed many of the slower card write
speed. You test results probably showed that Extreme III performed
better in K10D than your RiData.

It will be interesting if everyone can do this simple test with
their SD card (how many DNG & PEF RAW burst frames before pausing),
so that we have a collection of data for other users looking for a
SD card.

The 150x means very little to the real world speed. K10D needs
fast sustained write speed. 150x refers to burst read speed. And
it is sometimes impossible to find the real specs of the sustained
write speed.

SDHC at least put a minimum speed guarantee (class 2, 4 or 6), but
again, it tells us very little about its maximum sustained write
speed.
Click to expand...
Yeh, I know all that but if my fastest newest SD card (the RiData 150x) has a burst of 10 DNG (writes within 5 seconds of the last frame) why does my slowest oldest SD still have a burst of 10 DNG (taking over a minute to write). The card is obviously much, much slower but still accepts a burst of 10 DNG. The 10 burst mode of the camera has nothing to do with the card AFAIK. So why does one K10D have a burst of 12 or 14 and another 10?

--
Brett
http://www.pbase.com/shreder



The Journey is the Thing
 
Brett St Pierre said:
So why does one
K10D have a burst of 12 or 14 and another 10?
Click to expand...
The K10D has an Internal Shot Memory Buffer that say holds X-shots...

This might be 3-Frames or 5-Frames or 8-Frames ect. / The Point is that it's a Limited Size )

Once the buffer starts filling up it Leap Frogs the Buffer Stored Data onto the SD Card thus Making this Once Used Memory Space NOW Available for New Storage.

The Rate of Different SD Card's Wite-Speeds determines how Fast this Leap Frogging takes place.

If the SD Cards Writing / Transfer Speeds are Slower than the Data Rate coming into it... Eventually the Camera's Internal Memory Buffer will be Filled to the Max and the System will Slow Down to Wait for New Buffer Space.

Thus you get Different Burst Amounts because of Different SD Card Speeds...

Happy Holidays !

Cheers,
Orion Mayair
K10D + Tamron 28-105mm f4-5.6 & 75-300mm f4-5.6
 
OrionStien said:
Brett St Pierre said:
So why does one
K10D have a burst of 12 or 14 and another 10?
Click to expand...
The K10D has an Internal Shot Memory Buffer that say holds X-shots...

This might be 3-Frames or 5-Frames or 8-Frames ect. / The Point is
that it's a Limited Size )
Once the buffer starts filling up it Leap Frogs the Buffer Stored
Data onto the SD Card thus Making this Once Used Memory Space NOW
Available for New Storage.

The Rate of Different SD Card's Wite-Speeds determines how Fast
this Leap Frogging takes place.
If the SD Cards Writing / Transfer Speeds are Slower than the Data
Rate coming into it... Eventually the Camera's Internal Memory
Buffer will be Filled to the Max and the System will Slow Down to
Wait for New Buffer Space.

Thus you get Different Burst Amounts because of Different SD Card
Speeds...

Happy Holidays !

Cheers,
Orion Mayair
K10D + Tamron 28-105mm f4-5.6 & 75-300mm f4-5.6
Click to expand...
I have a 2 GB TekQ Extreme x133 and also is getting 10 frames and after that its more like 1 frame every 3 seconds. Any ideas why the Sandisc is that much faster? I tought that x133 was an indication of the write speed?
 
There's no "certified" measure of card speed, so although there are generally agreed upon terms, there's nothing to stop a card maker from printing whatever number before the "X" they please. In other words, the "speed" rating of the card on paper doesn't necessarily correlate to performance. Frustrating, but that's the way it is. (And to make matters worse, different cameras will interface differently with the same card, so a "fast" card might be slow in a particular camera.)

--
See http://partialsight.com/ for my shot of the day.
 
orangegoat said:
There's no "certified" measure of card speed, so although there are
generally agreed upon terms, there's nothing to stop a card maker
from printing whatever number before the "X" they please. In other
words, the "speed" rating of the card on paper doesn't necessarily
correlate to performance. Frustrating, but that's the way it is.
(And to make matters worse, different cameras will interface
differently with the same card, so a "fast" card might be slow in a
particular camera.)
Click to expand...
Everything I have read is that the "standard" is 150 kb/second for 1x write speed so 133x is 133x150 kb/s = 20mb/s approx. Of course it's up to the manufacturer how they measure that speed so apples are not always apples.....

--
Brett
http://www.pbase.com/shreder



The Journey is the Thing
 
smulan said:
I have a 2 GB TekQ Extreme x133 and also is getting 10 frames and
after that its more like 1 frame every 3 seconds. Any ideas why
the Sandisc is that much faster? I tought that x133 was an
indication of the write speed?
Click to expand...
Unfortunately Many Card Makers Market their cards by Listing ONLY the Max READ Speed ( the x133 in your case )...

Continuous Shooting with a dSLR has more to do with the WRITING Speed of the Card and the Cameras ability to Interface with it !

You have to look at this and Test on a Case by Case bases.

Cheers,
Orion Mayair
K10D + Tamron 28-105mm f4-5.6 & 75-300mm f4-5.6
 
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