E3 price range? $1000, $2000 or more?

Correct me if I am wrong but I though the different series were something like this:

1 series - professional
3 series - live view (-300 due to sensor development delays)
4 series - compact
5 series - classic/economy

I think I read something along these lines in an Olympus article. That would mean that the ne E3 has live view.

--
http://my.opera.com/rosviks/homes/albums/8569/PICT0756%20 (WinCE).JPG
 
Hi cgbier,

I have five HD TV's. From what I hav heard, the next leap in networking will allow streaming video from you rcomputer to your monitor. HD or no. I woudl welcome it becasue less cables is always better.

--
'There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics.'
Benjamin Disraeli (1804-1881)
 
You are right with the cables... my desk looks like underneath the dashboard of a French car ;-)

(PC monitor, Video monitor, analog capture box, DV camera dock, 2 Scanners, printer, external drive, speakers, zillions of battery chargers, CF card reader,....) I wonder why all my hobbies depend on cables.....

--
http://kagman2.blogspot.com/
http://cgbier.zenfolio.com/
( Both just started, so don't expect too much)
 
ROFL, I feel the exact same eway. When those new networking standards hit, then your network will be way faster, computers will transfer gigabytes in seconds p2p or LAN (they are calling it PAN [Personal Area Network] in UWB speak) speakers and monitors and printers will be wireless with UWB (ultra wide band), and keyboards/mice, etc, will be bluetooth.

Not to mention downbload your photos from your camera without a card reader, or cable, at firewire speeds or greater.

Now this is useful technology.

--
'There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics.'
Benjamin Disraeli (1804-1881)
 
BTW they need to have 12-35 instead of the 14-35 to keep up with
the time man
I agree. I would pay $2000 USD for a 12-35mm f/2.0 lens, even if some folks would not. Gotta get my 150mm and 35-100mm lenses first though. 8-)

--
Cheers,

Jim Pilcher
Colorado, USA

I don't make stupid mistakes. My mistakes are always very clever.
 
Wow ! I was not expecting my simple question to generate so much heat. I thought, may be naively, that Olympus would want to compete with Pentax by offering an affordable Pro camera.

Olympus had already said that the E1 successor might have Live-view and their wooden mock-up seems to confirm that.

Given that none of their lens have IS, it would make good business sense to put AS in the camera. Canon and Nikon are stuck with their IS lens. Sony and Pentax are capitalizing on that as a differentiator. So Olympus would be the only manufacturer without IS or AS? Hardly likely. I do not think that Olympus would want to rely on Leica for this function.

I am surprised that so many knowledgeable people are expecting that Live-view and AS will not be in the E3. Without Live-view, without AS, with a smaller sensor and with a price tag of more than $2000, I really cannot see how Olympus could hope to have a significant market share.

Anyway, reading these posts, I am starting to believe that the Olympus flagship camera will be much more expensive than the Pentax K10D. I think Pentax made the right business decision and that they will capture a significant marker share. May be with the help of Samsung they have deeper pockets and they can afford lower margins.

Coming from Canon S3, I am looking for a DSLR with Live-view. The E330 has too many shortcomings. If the E3 is too expensive, I will have to wait for the E330 successor.

If I was to give-up on Live-view, I would buy the Pentax K10D - I do have some old K-mount Pentax primes. I would need some significant incentive to switch to Olympus. Live-view would have been it.

Frank
 
K10D is a prosumer juggernaut, but not pro.

3fps
plastic body
no shutter cycle guarantee

it is a dumbed down D200 with in body IS. The D200 is a better "pro" model.

. . . these are not pro specs, though rumor has it they may be cooking up a K1D to compete with the D2X. That said, they need a lot of glass quickly to make an investment in a body of the D2x's caliber a worthwhile investment. Wide to shrot tele primes are great, but really high-quality fast telephoto primes and zooms are what is needed for that kinda crowd.

Once again, I really hope Olympus can come up with 2-3 cameras for PMA. A D200-ish camera. A D2Xish camera. And an updated E400.

Another live view rig can really wait till next year. The E330 is less than a year old, and there have been two other live view cameras since then, none of which has attracted ANY attention to the brand. For goodness sake, the lens attached to the Panasonic has generated much more interest than the camera itself.

Live view may woo some people, but to get real credibility Oly needs more.

Like a couple of quick focusing, high fps, very light and athletic cameras that cover extreme tele angles in half the wieght.

--
'There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics.'
Benjamin Disraeli (1804-1881)
 
I coudl see some National Geogrpahic photogrpahers wnating to take
a very light and capapble action camera with the build quality,
weahter sealing and SSWF of the E-1 into the serengeti in an
instant, puting some of thsoe top pro f2 zooms to serious use.
I have heard that there are already many National Geo photogs that really like the E-1/11-22 combo for a light-weight setup (compared to Canikon sealed WA solutions) for trudging up hill and down dale w/out vehicular support. Take with salt, as I heard it from a rep ;-).
The 200mm f2.8 would be the best lens ever if it were stabilized
and attached to a super fast body. 600mm with amore usable f2.8
(DOF)
You mean 300/2.8? I would love to have that lens for astro-photography. Oh well, when I win the lottery...

--
Archer in Boulder, CO
 
Not that I do it, but it is nice to have the astro photography option. After seeing pictures of the amp gain on the Nikon cameras it seems it si out of the question for Sony sensors.

Yes I meant 300mm. If Oly released a 200mm prime it would be f2 for sure.

--
'There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics.'
Benjamin Disraeli (1804-1881)
 
OK, well you noted I was agreeing that very hight FPS would make sense?

I have no use for it. I hate sport. I don't play it, don't watch it, have no desire to shoot it, and would run a mile rather than see the pictures (inoor basketball? Purleeeeease).

But other people DO shoot it. They might find high FPS very handy.

The target market for a "Pro" camera is in fact poros, semi pros, keen hobbysists, and rich people. As a semi pro I do want LV - I do a lot arty strange angle shots and it would save my back. Also well handy for macros. You don't need it? Fine, switch it off, same way I would high FPS.

THe OM1 argument doesn't wash. The OM1s size had no effect on image quality - the 4/3rds sensor does. You need to offer some active tricks. High FPS will get the sports shooters (not me). LV will get the High Art people (me). Light weight will get the landscape trekkers (me). Let's not have a me-too goodish camera because it will be noisy at high ISOs and die a death.

Canon sell quite a lot of 1DSs.

Nikon can barely shift any D2Xs because it is the same camera as the Canon but noisier and lower res - even at half the money.

Olympus would be nuts to play in that pool because the E3 will either be noisier than the Nikon, or lower res, or both. As for coming close to the Canon - stroll on.

They need to build on their virtues, which are light weight, LiveView, and (potentially) high FPS. The fact that you or I may not need any particular one of those is not the point - they need all of them. And you can switch off the LV and I will slow down the FPS.

--
http://www.flickr.com/photos/acam
http://www.pbase.com/acam/
 
Greetings

Sony and Samsung/Pentax will both have Pro camera out this year more than likely at PMA 07. From what's been rumored they'll enter the market around $1500 or less and all the 3rd party lens companies make lenses and flashes for them. Sony made it very clear they plan on knocking Nikon out of the #2 position with Samsung hot on their heels. Also remember Foveon has joined with Dongbu of Korea so we may see more camera with the Foveon sensor in the near future. If Olympus doesn't start to lower their prices on bodies, lenses, and flash their going to have a rough road ahead. If I was was going to look at a pro system with a furture and with backwards compatability I'd look at Nikon, Samsung/Pentax. The D1x is one of the best camreas I've used. If it were as quite and as small as the E1 I wouldn't own an E1. If I don't see something from Olympus at a fair price by PMA 07 I'll make a move, End of Story.

Have fun
Roger J.
 
For the record Louis, you are a far better photographer than me, and I hope you get the camera you want. Your work is great and if it helps you make more of it even better.

I don't need any of it, fps, lv, whatever. I jsut want the brand to survive, and improve a little in some fundamental areas.

I never sell my images-- it is just a hobby at this point. What I want is a $1500-2000 weather sealed E, that has faster AF and a better VF. ISO I can live with, but the otehrs I want. WIll I get thsi camera? I dunno.

I take my camera every where with me. Camping, hiking, I do street photography, I take family portraits, and I try to do abstracts. I esnt s birhgter/bigger VF so I can check focus easier, and MF when I want to. I want weather sealing so I can take my camera eveywhere, and use it in hte copious amoutns of mild rain we get in New England. And I want a dramtic AF improvemnt so I can catch shots in the street quicker. I have missed more cool shots due to slow AF. That's what I want, it can be done with 4/3 in that price range, if they leave out LV. LV will laways yeild a crippled VF because they expect you to use the feature.

If they put live view in I won't buy it, because I am not willing to pay that premium to look at washed out pixels in bright daylight, or grainy mush when I kick the ISO up. Just like I never, ever want to see an EVF.

If you are sitting there and staic I am sure it can add to composition, but for me it won't.

Seriously, if they don't get a camera out that I want I am not leaving in the short term, because I am poor, but I will know then that long term Olympus is commited to wooing digicam people with gimmicks like liveview-- saying see, it works just like your sony pocket camera = ) buy it, its fun.

It won't be the ISO that forces me out, but lack of abiulity/deisre to produce a camera with comparable build and features to Nikon. Heck, I got the E500 because it was full featured. In retrospect, I wish I had played with the VF more, because it is too small for my liking. Using a D200 was a sea change for me. Easy on the eyes, bright, large. It is a hobby for me, but it is supposed to be fun, and straining through a tunnel or flipping around a flimsy articualted lcd in bright light is NOT fun for me.

And for the record live view has nothing to do with 4/3 format-- the virtues of 4/3 s DOF at large aperture, lenses that are digital specific and a lighter bag because of the AOV at smaller focal lengths.

LV could be done on any other DSLR with a CMOS/LMOS sensor. It hasn't been done because it generates so little interest--if it did generate interest Canon, Nikon and Sony would already have an answer. Has anyone read Phil's review of the E330? Or any toher reviews of it? I have yet to see tow things from thsi camera.

1.) A single shot that couldn't have been obtained without its LV. Just one shot, please. Prove it does something well. I can compose check focus etc, much quicker with a VF. I don't want to be tinkering in menus to zoom focus or anything else.

2.) A single review that is impressed with the feature and thinks it could sell a dslr system.

LV is a mediocre innoavtion IMO, that failed to impress anyone but the very few.

Turning it off is what would tee me right off. Why am I going to pay a $300-500 premium for somehting I am going to leave off???? I won't.

SSWF was a great innovation, that is being copied by everyone.

As far as LV getting included, well we'll wait and see. With or without it this camera won't sell well. But if it is fast and light, with good IQ it will lend pro credibility. More MP, landscapers, product photgraphers. Faster AF/FPS sports/nature guys. High ISO, wedding guys? err if that's possible.

Also, pixel binning could give that camera better high ISO than the D2X. switch from 12 to 8, improve s/n ratio, go up to 3200. Maybe.

Either way, the gears will be in motion at PMA nad Olympus' fate will be much clearer then. If they fail with whatever, the system will end. Their profits are a razor thin pittance right now, and a loss of sales will probably kill the system.

--
'There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics.'
Benjamin Disraeli (1804-1881)
 
Correct me if I am wrong but I though the different series were
something like this:

1 series - professional
3 series - live view (-300 due to sensor development delays)
4 series - compact
5 series - classic/economy

I think I read something along these lines in an Olympus article.
That would mean that the ne E3 has live view.
Not exactly, What I understood them to say was:

single digits mean professional (E-2 is apparently unavailable to Olympus)
300 series - live view
400 series - compact
500 series - classic/economy

That would not imply that the E-3 has live view.
 
The lens you want is the 300mm f2.8 Nikkor ED AI, or AIS version. A $30 adapter will allow you to connect it to your Olympus body.

They can be gotten used for something like $700 in perfect working order, and they are every bit as optically excellent as the $6999 Olympus 300mm f2.8 lens. These older Nikon telephotos are professional caliber tools.

You will lose auto focus, auto diaphragm, and shutter priority and program automation, but none of these things matter in the slightest for astro photography:

Because you will shoot wide open, and you will always be focused at infinity, and you will either want to use Manual exposure or Aperture priority auto exposure only. IMHO, this particular application is a complete no-brainer for using a legacy manual focus lens that cost 1 tenth as much as the current Olympus Digital Zuiko lens.

Other than the Nikon 300mm f2.8, the Nikon 400mm f3.5 ED AI or AIS is also a good choice. Cost on the used market is similar to the 300mm.
 
It's a nice serious amateur DSLR camera, designed to compete with the Nikon D80. The fact that the Pentax is weather sealed doesn't make it a pro camera.

It lacks the frame rate, the AF performance, and the build quality to be a Pro camera. ESPECIALLY the AF performance. As I said, it's a D80 competitor, with added weather sealing and in body IS, but lacking high performance AF.
 
ESPECIALLY the AF performance. As I said,
it's a D80 competitor, with added weather sealing and in body IS,
but lacking high performance AF.
The Pentax has TTL 11-area AF. The reviews on this site do not say anything about AF speed. According to Phil, the speed depends too much on the lens to be reported. Do you have any information on the K10D AF speed? How does the Nikon D80 compare to the Pro Nikon D2X in terms of AF performance? In other words, how does one characterize a high performance, Pro AF?

Frank
 
I know that independent tests have shown the D2X to focus faster than any DSLR, and I have heard that the D200 has the same AF unit. I have also heard the the D80 has a stripped down version of that unit. Then I have also heard that the K10D is not as fast as the D80, so, to make a long story short, from what I have heard ; ) it does not have pro focusing ability, which could only be defined by hjow fast the D2X and ID focus.

BTW, lenses only effect focus speed a little. lots of tests show Zuikos to focius quickly in good lighting. But CAF and low light is a gag, and that is where the camera body is suppsoed to pick up the slack. All in all, between Sony Oly and Pentax getting AF right, as comapred to Nikon, my money is on Olympus simply because tjhey have already donw some great engineering here, whereas Sony simply bought K-M and Pentax has only reverse engineered shaky-sensor tech that was invented by K-M.

LV and Dust buster are both Oly creations, and engineering a better AF seems doable in the short term. Remmeber they don't have to invent the wheel, just reinvent it.

C'mon Oly, I know you got it in ya!!!

--
'There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics.'
Benjamin Disraeli (1804-1881)
 
LV and Dust buster are both Oly creations, and engineering a better
AF seems doable in the short term.
I agree, the hurdle that Oly needs to overcome is doable.

Dust buster is not a differentiator any more - it is becoming a standard. Similarly, I think that some IS/AS is a necessity for a manufacturer to survive. It will be a standard except for a small niche of Pro. How many pros turned down AF a decade or two ago?

There is no reason to believe that K10D would have an AF significantly inferior to Olympus'. The differences might be so small, that it would be irrelevant - I am not in pro sport or bird photography so 3 fps vs 5 fps is not important for me.

The plastic body of the K10D is not a big problem for me. It is sealed and according to DPreview, it is of excellent quality. That is enough for me.

So comparing K10D to the successor of E1/E330, it will be a larger sensor vs Live-view. In other words, high ISO (because I don't believe in miracles) vs convenience. For my use, I would rank Live-view higher.

The E330 was announced in January 2006. It is lacking AS and its design clearly indicates that the Live-view implementation was not yet mature. Will we see a mature successor soon with AS?

So I am hoping that next year we will have:
  • E330 successor with mature Live-view and AS, or,
  • E1 successor with mature Live view and AS at less than $2000.
I think it is unlikely that Olympus will produce both. They would affect each other's market too much. A successor to the E1 is more likely because it is more than overdue. The question then is how much will it cost - and that was the original concern of this thread.

If there is no 'affordable' Olympus next year, with mature Live-view and AS, I would give-up on Live-view and go for a Pentax K10D. After all, I still have my old manual Pentax primes.

As you see, I would be willing to give-up on these lens, wait a year, accept a lesser high ISO performance and pay an extra few hundreds dollars to get Live-view. But I can't be stretched more than that.

Frank
 

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