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Ray Bowers

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Hi,

I am curious if anyone else would care to share their observations in using digital photography to do events. No, not the technical aspects, I am talking about the business of it.

I do dance competitions. I started as a dancers, and my hobby kind of grew. I'd like to describe how I do it, my pricing and products and hear back from others on what they have seen or done. I know there may be a big difference between those that sell ON-SITE and those that don't. That's what I would really like to hear about!

Anyway, I can shoot about 7,000 shots a weekend at a dance event. I use a Nikon D1x, couple 1GB microdrives and a MindStore. I have a table set up with a laptop and flatpanel display running slide shows. At the start of the event I run slides of an older event. By Friday night I start having it run slides of shots from the event and keep adding to the slide show as the weekend progresses. I also post a sign below the monitor so people see how many pictures I have taken. Folks are amazed by Saturday night to see something like "4,500 Pictures so far...", and they will sometimes congregate around the screen for a while looking for themselves and friends.

After the end of the event, I organize and put everything into web galleries on my home page organized by division. I also most CD's and send them to some of the instructors (with PROOF across the images).

People e-mail me to place an order. I edit the images, sent them to dotPhoto or oFoto for processing and mailing straight to the customer. At $0.17 a 4x6 from dotPhoto, well, great price! I then e-mail the customer a bill and they pay by check. At some point I will set it up for credit card orders and prefer payment before processing, but for now, I have not had a problem.

Now, let's talk numbers...............

I use to charge $4 for a 4x6, $7 for a 5x7 and I think $12 for an 8x10. I got a lot of orders, but it was a lot of work. And 90% of the orders were for 4x6.

This last event I did, I raised my prices to $7 for a 4x6, $10 for a 5x7, $15 for an 8x10.

Now, it is too early to see the final results since I still have orders coming in, but ROUGHLY, I saw a 40% drop in orders, but of course the average $ per order shot up quite a bit! I love getting the same amount of money with less work.... But I am considering dropping back to $6 or changing some other things. My average order size was $42 and now it is $63 per order.

So, what could I do different? What do other people do of have you seen?

On-site printing would be one thing. I'd love to hear how people are doing with that. Do customers like an ink jet print? I have an Epson 1270 and I love it, but too slow for some of these orders for 20 4x6's at high quality. And I heard people complain about the photos from from photographer who did low res prints on HPs at one event....

What about changing my products. Instead of offering 4x6's, only offer 5x7's and higher. After all, I make more money off of them. I'd rather boost my sales of them and not have to do so much work to fulfill lots of little 4x6 orders...

I heard from one person at a rodeo event that she paid $100 for 4 pictures... 4 5x7's off of ink jet printers. and one of the prints was scratched already and they had a horrible blue cast to them. Very lousy quality! I manually run everything through PhotoShop - crop, curves, sharpen, and even retouch to remove background objects, and stuff. I want them to look great!

I am also curious about if people have stopped selling smaller prints to get customers to buy larger ones as a result of people potentially buying small prints and enlarging them themselves..

So what else do people do? How about costs and products offered? What services do you use for fulfillment? How do you handle billing? Just curious...

Thanks,

-Ray

[email protected]
http://www.RayBowersPhotography.com
 
Hi Ray,

Are your customers aware of the limited time span of inkjet prints? I am an event photographer (for the past 18 years) and although I love my digital photography work for playing around, I only use traditional film and prints for customers. Until I can be sure that "they" come up with an archival ink to use in inkjet prints, I'll stick to film.

Marlene
Ray Bowers said:
Hi,

I am curious if anyone else would care to share their observations
in using digital photography to do events. No, not the technical
aspects, I am talking about the business of it.

I do dance competitions. I started as a dancers, and my hobby kind
of grew. I'd like to describe how I do it, my pricing and products
and hear back from others on what they have seen or done. I know
there may be a big difference between those that sell ON-SITE and
those that don't. That's what I would really like to hear about!

Anyway, I can shoot about 7,000 shots a weekend at a dance event.
I use a Nikon D1x, couple 1GB microdrives and a MindStore. I have
a table set up with a laptop and flatpanel display running slide
shows. At the start of the event I run slides of an older event.
By Friday night I start having it run slides of shots from the
event and keep adding to the slide show as the weekend progresses.
I also post a sign below the monitor so people see how many
pictures I have taken. Folks are amazed by Saturday night to see
something like "4,500 Pictures so far...", and they will sometimes
congregate around the screen for a while looking for themselves and
friends.

After the end of the event, I organize and put everything into web
galleries on my home page organized by division. I also most CD's
and send them to some of the instructors (with PROOF across the
images).

People e-mail me to place an order. I edit the images, sent them
to dotPhoto or oFoto for processing and mailing straight to the
customer. At $0.17 a 4x6 from dotPhoto, well, great price! I then
e-mail the customer a bill and they pay by check. At some point I
will set it up for credit card orders and prefer payment before
processing, but for now, I have not had a problem.

Now, let's talk numbers...............

I use to charge $4 for a 4x6, $7 for a 5x7 and I think $12 for an
8x10. I got a lot of orders, but it was a lot of work. And 90% of
the orders were for 4x6.

This last event I did, I raised my prices to $7 for a 4x6, $10 for
a 5x7, $15 for an 8x10.

Now, it is too early to see the final results since I still have
orders coming in, but ROUGHLY, I saw a 40% drop in orders, but of
course the average $ per order shot up quite a bit! I love getting
the same amount of money with less work.... But I am considering
dropping back to $6 or changing some other things. My average
order size was $42 and now it is $63 per order.

So, what could I do different? What do other people do of have you
seen?

On-site printing would be one thing. I'd love to hear how people
are doing with that. Do customers like an ink jet print? I have
an Epson 1270 and I love it, but too slow for some of these orders
for 20 4x6's at high quality. And I heard people complain about
the photos from from photographer who did low res prints on HPs at
one event....

What about changing my products. Instead of offering 4x6's, only
offer 5x7's and higher. After all, I make more money off of them.
I'd rather boost my sales of them and not have to do so much work
to fulfill lots of little 4x6 orders...

I heard from one person at a rodeo event that she paid $100 for 4
pictures... 4 5x7's off of ink jet printers. and one of the
prints was scratched already and they had a horrible blue cast to
them. Very lousy quality! I manually run everything through
PhotoShop - crop, curves, sharpen, and even retouch to remove
background objects, and stuff. I want them to look great!

I am also curious about if people have stopped selling smaller
prints to get customers to buy larger ones as a result of people
potentially buying small prints and enlarging them themselves..

So what else do people do? How about costs and products offered?
What services do you use for fulfillment? How do you handle
billing? Just curious...

Thanks,

-Ray

--
[email protected]
http://www.RayBowersPhotography.com
Click to expand...
--Marlene
 
hello ray, i am an event photographer also, and are moving out to do
onsite printing.
regarding the last post on time span-injet prints will last well enough
time to satisfy a customer who only paid less than $10 dollars for a print.
i am going to incorporate my 785 epx and laptop and fuji s1pro with
a lastolite portable backdrop and give it a go.
i will have a portable car battery with a converter to power the laptop
and printer.
printing 4x6 & 5x7 at 720 dpi, will print well under 2 min.
the key is to have tons of ram so the files can write fast.
i suggest you start out small and explore the possiblities of the 785 epx,
and see what it may do for you, instead of investing thousands of dollars
on an expensive dy-sub printer.
try;
olympus p-330n
fuji nx 500
and by doing using the sony, all you would need is a monitor and printer,
instead of a laptop.
the number item you need is definitely: icorrect 3.0
this software is god sent. it corrects color cast in digital shots, and
makes them look like magic.
go to atlex.com for your paper and ink. great prices and excellent service.
Marlene DeGrood said:
Are your customers aware of the limited time span of inkjet prints?
I am an event photographer (for the past 18 years) and although I
love my digital photography work for playing around, I only use
traditional film and prints for customers. Until I can be sure
that "they" come up with an archival ink to use in inkjet prints,
I'll stick to film.

Marlene
Ray Bowers said:
Hi,

I am curious if anyone else would care to share their observations
in using digital photography to do events. No, not the technical
aspects, I am talking about the business of it.

I do dance competitions. I started as a dancers, and my hobby kind
of grew. I'd like to describe how I do it, my pricing and products
and hear back from others on what they have seen or done. I know
there may be a big difference between those that sell ON-SITE and
those that don't. That's what I would really like to hear about!

Anyway, I can shoot about 7,000 shots a weekend at a dance event.
I use a Nikon D1x, couple 1GB microdrives and a MindStore. I have
a table set up with a laptop and flatpanel display running slide
shows. At the start of the event I run slides of an older event.
By Friday night I start having it run slides of shots from the
event and keep adding to the slide show as the weekend progresses.
I also post a sign below the monitor so people see how many
pictures I have taken. Folks are amazed by Saturday night to see
something like "4,500 Pictures so far...", and they will sometimes
congregate around the screen for a while looking for themselves and
friends.

After the end of the event, I organize and put everything into web
galleries on my home page organized by division. I also most CD's
and send them to some of the instructors (with PROOF across the
images).

People e-mail me to place an order. I edit the images, sent them
to dotPhoto or oFoto for processing and mailing straight to the
customer. At $0.17 a 4x6 from dotPhoto, well, great price! I then
e-mail the customer a bill and they pay by check. At some point I
will set it up for credit card orders and prefer payment before
processing, but for now, I have not had a problem.

Now, let's talk numbers...............

I use to charge $4 for a 4x6, $7 for a 5x7 and I think $12 for an
8x10. I got a lot of orders, but it was a lot of work. And 90% of
the orders were for 4x6.

This last event I did, I raised my prices to $7 for a 4x6, $10 for
a 5x7, $15 for an 8x10.

Now, it is too early to see the final results since I still have
orders coming in, but ROUGHLY, I saw a 40% drop in orders, but of
course the average $ per order shot up quite a bit! I love getting
the same amount of money with less work.... But I am considering
dropping back to $6 or changing some other things. My average
order size was $42 and now it is $63 per order.

So, what could I do different? What do other people do of have you
seen?

On-site printing would be one thing. I'd love to hear how people
are doing with that. Do customers like an ink jet print? I have
an Epson 1270 and I love it, but too slow for some of these orders
for 20 4x6's at high quality. And I heard people complain about
the photos from from photographer who did low res prints on HPs at
one event....

What about changing my products. Instead of offering 4x6's, only
offer 5x7's and higher. After all, I make more money off of them.
I'd rather boost my sales of them and not have to do so much work
to fulfill lots of little 4x6 orders...

I heard from one person at a rodeo event that she paid $100 for 4
pictures... 4 5x7's off of ink jet printers. and one of the
prints was scratched already and they had a horrible blue cast to
them. Very lousy quality! I manually run everything through
PhotoShop - crop, curves, sharpen, and even retouch to remove
background objects, and stuff. I want them to look great!

I am also curious about if people have stopped selling smaller
prints to get customers to buy larger ones as a result of people
potentially buying small prints and enlarging them themselves..

So what else do people do? How about costs and products offered?
What services do you use for fulfillment? How do you handle
billing? Just curious...

Thanks,

-Ray

--
[email protected]
http://www.RayBowersPhotography.com
Click to expand...
--
Marlene
Click to expand...
 
The point is....is the customer aware? If I had a child in competition and a beautiful photo was taken, I'd like to know if this was somehing that his or her grandchildren could someday appreciate. For a lot of people the cost is not as big a concern as the quality and longevity is. I'm not talking off the top of my head. I have many customers that will wait for an event that I'm shooting at because they know that they are buying a higher priced print that will last a lifetime or two. Inkjet is a cheap alternative that the customer should be aware of, otherwise no matter how cheap it is, you're still ripping them off.

Marlene
deshawn said:
hello ray, i am an event photographer also, and are moving out to do
onsite printing.
regarding the last post on time span-injet prints will last well
enough
time to satisfy a customer who only paid less than $10 dollars for
a print.
Click to expand...
--Marlene
 
Just my 2 cents:
Marlene

Epson and others do offer "archival inks" that would satisfy most consumers in the long term. I would not categorize all inkjet printing as a ripoff. If you give the customer the choice, and don't gouge them with relatively high prices, then inkjet priniting does not always=ripoff.

Tom S.
Marlene DeGrood said:
Marlene
deshawn said:
hello ray, i am an event photographer also, and are moving out to do
onsite printing.
regarding the last post on time span-injet prints will last well
enough
time to satisfy a customer who only paid less than $10 dollars for
a print.
Click to expand...
--
Marlene
Click to expand...
 
Marlene DeGrood said:
Are your customers aware of the limited time span of inkjet prints?
I am an event photographer (for the past 18 years) and although I
love my digital photography work for playing around, I only use
traditional film and prints for customers. Until I can be sure
that "they" come up with an archival ink to use in inkjet prints,
I'll stick to film.
Click to expand...
I agree, that ink jet prints are not going to last (yet). But I still shoot events digital. I just don't do on-site printing with ink jet printers. I have them processed AFTER the event at a digital mini lab which can make silver prints from digital images...

The advantages are that I have the time to manually edit and ensure each image is the best, plus I get a silver print, not an ink jet print, and of course since it is digital, I can shoot thousands of pictures at an event and not worry about costs of film/processing. More choices for customers.

The disadvantages of course is that I don't do on-site order fulfillment and I probably loose sales since some people would prefer to see and buy things right there, not later.

Still, either way, I would not shoot film any more for en event.

[email protected] http://www.RayBowersPhotography.com
 
Ray:

I've looked through your online photos before and am impressed with what I saw. I ran across a link to an event photography forum in the pro forum (I think that is where) just recently. You might check here to see what information you may fall privvy to . . .
http://www.eventphotomarket.com/cgi/ultimatebb.cgi

Don't forget guy sports too --- moms love their sons (yes, my son runs track and cross country). The AAU summer meets are prime for the picking!

Good luck!

--Keep on shooting!Lisa
 
deshawn said:
hello ray, i am an event photographer also, and are moving out to do
onsite printing. regarding the last post on time span-injet prints will
last well enough time to satisfy a customer who only paid less than
$10 dollars for a print.
Click to expand...
What about staff to handle orders and printing? What's your pricing like and average order size? How long to show and take a customer's order? how about to then print it?

I do an event on my own since I don't know that I can afford someone to help out. Plus, I shoot SOO much each weekend it takes some time to fulfill each order. The dancing goes till Sunday at 5pm, and getting the pictures I shoot from the Nikon D1x to the laptop to have customers review and print before they (and I) catch a plane that night is tight. How much time do you spend per customer on orders? What's your typical order size?

If I have each person wanting 10-20 prints, on-site may not be doable, but I would like to hear more about people who show images on screen and take orders to be filled afterwards.... A nice compromise maybe. Onsite viewing and ordering, but off site printing so they get a silver print?
deshawn said:
printing 4x6 & 5x7 at 720 dpi, will print well under 2 min.
Click to expand...
720 dpi?!?! Yuch. :-(
deshawn said:
the number item you need is definitely: icorrect 3.0
this software is god sent. it corrects color cast in digital shots,
and makes them look like magic.
Click to expand...
Sounds interesting. I do everything in PhotoShop 6 now, but I will take a look at this for fun.

Thanks,

-Ray

[email protected] http://www.RayBowersPhotography.com
 
marlene sounds like she is an old school film shooter, who is threatened
by digital injet technology.
this reminds me of a debate i had with a old school photographer, who
hated using automatic slr, and who only used manual camera, and
after the end of the debate is asked him
"so what type of car do you drive- manual or automatic"
some of you talk as is, the injet print will fade like the invisible man within
a year or so.
obviously some of you have not been using this technology for more than
probably a years tops.
hear ye, hear ye, a digital print can go pound for pound in image clarity,
and longivity with any flim based 35mm camera.
period.
i have been printing digital images since 1996, and they look just as good
as they did back when i first saw them come to life.
the image quality wasnt as near as good, but they are still looking like
they did 6 years ago.
next, a 3.3 mega camera, can produce an image on a 4x6, that is much
more better than a 35mm film camera.

so i say go for the injet, or thermal print tech, and stop paying attention to all this talk about image quality not lasting 1000 years or so.
Lisa Neal said:
Ray:

I've looked through your online photos before and am impressed with
what I saw. I ran across a link to an event photography forum in
the pro forum (I think that is where) just recently. You might
check here to see what information you may fall privvy to . . .
http://www.eventphotomarket.com/cgi/ultimatebb.cgi

Don't forget guy sports too --- moms love their sons (yes, my son
runs track and cross country). The AAU summer meets are prime for
the picking!

Good luck!

--
Keep on shooting!
Lisa
Click to expand...
 
I'm not the least bit threatened. I shoot digital for my personal creative fun, I just don't believe that it is of the same quality, yet, as film. It's close and getting better every day with better paper and ink. I'm really sick of amateurs thinking they can turn pro with their digital camera because it's easy and cheap to do, with the attitude of just pass off a cheap price on the customer and they'll be satisfied with an inkjet print. So what do you say to the customer when they ask for a 16x20?

This is a digital forum so most of you will naturally jump to defend digital and inkjet just like an Olympus owner will defend their E-10 over a Nikon Coolpix. I realize that my words are wasted here, I just resent the word "threatened" by one who doesn't have a clue about the ethics of the art of photography and that every medium serves a purpose. I'm sure that the day when digital technology matches film, film will go by the wayside.

Marlene
deshawn said:
Lisa Neal said:
Ray:

I've looked through your online photos before and am impressed with
what I saw. I ran across a link to an event photography forum in
the pro forum (I think that is where) just recently. You might
check here to see what information you may fall privvy to . . .
http://www.eventphotomarket.com/cgi/ultimatebb.cgi

Don't forget guy sports too --- moms love their sons (yes, my son
runs track and cross country). The AAU summer meets are prime for
the picking!

Good luck!

--
Keep on shooting!
Lisa
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
--Marlene
 
being that i make a living as a photographer in numerous catagories:
fine art
fashion
events
portraits,
i simply laugh at your "amatuer" labeling.
one doesnt have to have used a camera for 20+ years to make them
so authoritive, and an expert on whats considered of good quality and
longivity.
your average film print only has a shelve life of 25+ years.

so do you actually think a customer paying $6 bucks for a 4x6 print is gonna stand there and wonder " if this print will be around in the year 2040?
and to answer your question regarding the 16x20?
i would do one or two things:
take it to a professional lab, and make an "actual film-based print"
or
have ezprint or ofoto print up one, which will be just a beautiful and
clear as an actual film-bsed print.
being that i have a fuji s1pro and know all the right softwares to use
the print would come out lovely.
and getting back to the amatuer statement, i'll let my work speak for
itself:
http://www.p1.photoreflect.com
or
http://www.pbase.com/deshawn

so where's your professional film-based site?
Marlene DeGrood said:
This is a digital forum so most of you will naturally jump to
defend digital and inkjet just like an Olympus owner will defend
their E-10 over a Nikon Coolpix. I realize that my words are
wasted here, I just resent the word "threatened" by one who doesn't
have a clue about the ethics of the art of photography and that
every medium serves a purpose. I'm sure that the day when digital
technology matches film, film will go by the wayside.

Marlene
deshawn said:
Lisa Neal said:
Ray:

I've looked through your online photos before and am impressed with
what I saw. I ran across a link to an event photography forum in
the pro forum (I think that is where) just recently. You might
check here to see what information you may fall privvy to . . .
http://www.eventphotomarket.com/cgi/ultimatebb.cgi

Don't forget guy sports too --- moms love their sons (yes, my son
runs track and cross country). The AAU summer meets are prime for
the picking!

Good luck!

--
Keep on shooting!
Lisa
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
--
Marlene
Click to expand...
 
deshawn said:
i have been printing digital images since 1996, and they look just
as good
as they did back when i first saw them come to life.
Click to expand...
Actually, I have some very good ink jet prints, but for event photography where you want to sell to 100 customers in a weekend, is it reasonable? I think for quality and speed, it is not an option, but I have seen it done.

I pensonally still prefer silver prints. I have ink jet prints hanging up at home and use them in my portfolio. Quick and easy to reprint. But they do scratch easier and regardless of what manufacturers say, can get smudged over time. Now, if it is in a frame, hanging on the wall, that is one thing, but..

For example, I use to do my business cards on a Epson 1270 with a few different types of paper and I found that after a while in my pocket, they became smudged. Whereas I don't have that problem with the silver prints.

Plus, I can get a 4x6 for $0.17 each and cut it up into 3 business cards. So my cost per card is about $0.06. For printing them on good photo paper, depending on which I use it is either $1 or $2 a page for 10 cards, so you are looking at $0.10 or $0.20 for paper per card plus ink.

Anyway, I get side traked. I like silver prints and I like ink jet prints. I think each has their place and each will look nice framed and hanging up on a wall, but... On to how this relates to Event Photographers...

At av event, last time I saw a photographer using ink jet printers, the guy shot hundreds of pictures and then had 6 HP printers lined up and his wife printing ALL of the pictures he shot at a LOW resolution on precut 4x6 paper. They put them in photo albums on the table and let people look through and buy them.

My problem? As a customer, I thought the prints sucked! They didn't crop, adjust exposure/color, sharpness or anything, and they were low res. I could practically see the dots with my eye! Now, they were in a high volume production mode, so they didn't have time print high quality images, or edit each one, etc...

So, yes, ink jets may work, but not the way this guy did them. And still, even if an event photographer only prints the images people buy, I think doing a good high quality print, now a low res print, takes time and if you have a line of 100 customers, it can't be done on-site (unless you have a dozen printers sitting behind you.

So, I have opted to take orders, and have a lab make silver prints to send out. Heck, I can't make a 4x6 for cheaper than I get a silver print made anyway....

Well, enough rambling. I want to hear from othe people, not just all my opinions again.

Thanks!

-Ray

[email protected] http://www.RayBowersPhotography.com
 
Ray,

I too have started into printing onsite at events. I shot over 3000 pix last weekend - unfortunately with at D30 in low light. Less than 10% came out to my liking - but plenty more were good enough for parents to buy.

To do onsite printing - you can do it with inkjets - alot of guys do. To solve speed - you'll need a bank of them - use pooling in NT or 2K to push all your files to a set of 4-6 printers. The ppm will go up. As far as cost - you can pick up simple, yet capable printers for under $100 - refurb'd 875's from Epson. The quality is equal to an Oly-P400 costing over $800. The per print cost is also less alot less.

Archival ink - true, you can get longer inks that will last 25 years - you're still shy of the 40-60 odd years that film will offer. However, when is the last time anybody has asked their photo-finisher (the film type) how long their prints would last? Would they know? I think everybody assumes that prints will fade - it is just a matter of time. When somebody buys a pic of their kid in a way that they could not - they are buying a current moment in time - not an investment in history. If it is an issue with anybody - then sell them the file - burn a CD for them at 10x the cost of a print - then they can store the file themselves and print their own every 25 years. A digital file will hold up longer then chrome prints and even the negatives they came from.

Web sites - check out the EventPhotoMarket as well as RobGalbraith for alot of good advice.

Personally, I would ditch the 4x6 and offer bundles of 2x(5x7) or 8x10 at about the same price. This way, you can stock one paper size and not deal with all the hassles of small prints and prices.

If you are really serious, they you'll want to look at the software that ExpressDigital sells - spendy, but offers you the flexibility and speed to pour through 7000 pix without wasting time! The key to making alot more money is having parents come up to you, see the print(s) they want, place the order, print it and go to the next in line in a matter of seconds/minutes - not dozens of minutes having them browse, think, ask you to do something with it in PS, etc...

Good luck...
 
Ray

I'd drop the 4x6's and raise the prices on your 8x10 sheets. If your quality is as good as it sounds you could practically double your prices, If for no other reason than to keep equipment up to date in order to continue providing great quality.

My .02 cents

John
Ray Bowers said:
Hi,

I am curious if anyone else would care to share their observations
in using digital photography to do events. No, not the technical
aspects, I am talking about the business of it.

I do dance competitions. I started as a dancers, and my hobby kind
of grew. I'd like to describe how I do it, my pricing and products
and hear back from others on what they have seen or done. I know
there may be a big difference between those that sell ON-SITE and
those that don't. That's what I would really like to hear about!

Anyway, I can shoot about 7,000 shots a weekend at a dance event.
I use a Nikon D1x, couple 1GB microdrives and a MindStore. I have
a table set up with a laptop and flatpanel display running slide
shows. At the start of the event I run slides of an older event.
By Friday night I start having it run slides of shots from the
event and keep adding to the slide show as the weekend progresses.
I also post a sign below the monitor so people see how many
pictures I have taken. Folks are amazed by Saturday night to see
something like "4,500 Pictures so far...", and they will sometimes
congregate around the screen for a while looking for themselves and
friends.

After the end of the event, I organize and put everything into web
galleries on my home page organized by division. I also most CD's
and send them to some of the instructors (with PROOF across the
images).

People e-mail me to place an order. I edit the images, sent them
to dotPhoto or oFoto for processing and mailing straight to the
customer. At $0.17 a 4x6 from dotPhoto, well, great price! I then
e-mail the customer a bill and they pay by check. At some point I
will set it up for credit card orders and prefer payment before
processing, but for now, I have not had a problem.

Now, let's talk numbers...............

I use to charge $4 for a 4x6, $7 for a 5x7 and I think $12 for an
8x10. I got a lot of orders, but it was a lot of work. And 90% of
the orders were for 4x6.

This last event I did, I raised my prices to $7 for a 4x6, $10 for
a 5x7, $15 for an 8x10.

Now, it is too early to see the final results since I still have
orders coming in, but ROUGHLY, I saw a 40% drop in orders, but of
course the average $ per order shot up quite a bit! I love getting
the same amount of money with less work.... But I am considering
dropping back to $6 or changing some other things. My average
order size was $42 and now it is $63 per order.

So, what could I do different? What do other people do of have you
seen?

On-site printing would be one thing. I'd love to hear how people
are doing with that. Do customers like an ink jet print? I have
an Epson 1270 and I love it, but too slow for some of these orders
for 20 4x6's at high quality. And I heard people complain about
the photos from from photographer who did low res prints on HPs at
one event....

What about changing my products. Instead of offering 4x6's, only
offer 5x7's and higher. After all, I make more money off of them.
I'd rather boost my sales of them and not have to do so much work
to fulfill lots of little 4x6 orders...

I heard from one person at a rodeo event that she paid $100 for 4
pictures... 4 5x7's off of ink jet printers. and one of the
prints was scratched already and they had a horrible blue cast to
them. Very lousy quality! I manually run everything through
PhotoShop - crop, curves, sharpen, and even retouch to remove
background objects, and stuff. I want them to look great!

I am also curious about if people have stopped selling smaller
prints to get customers to buy larger ones as a result of people
potentially buying small prints and enlarging them themselves..

So what else do people do? How about costs and products offered?
What services do you use for fulfillment? How do you handle
billing? Just curious...

Thanks,

-Ray

--
[email protected]
http://www.RayBowersPhotography.com
Click to expand...
 
i read a forum on ron galbraith's ite on event photography, and most
photographers said:
4x6 or 5x7 were the prints of choice.
i am thinking of getting sony new 4x6 printer, and hock it up to a monitor
and print 4x6 in less than 1min, take a pre-paid order for anything larger,
burn a cd for the client, and mail the pre-paid order (include shipping
charges as well).
or spend thousands and wait to recoup the money back..
J Branam said:
I'd drop the 4x6's and raise the prices on your 8x10 sheets. If
your quality is as good as it sounds you could practically double
your prices, If for no other reason than to keep equipment up to
date in order to continue providing great quality.

My .02 cents

John
Ray Bowers said:
Hi,

I am curious if anyone else would care to share their observations
in using digital photography to do events. No, not the technical
aspects, I am talking about the business of it.

I do dance competitions. I started as a dancers, and my hobby kind
of grew. I'd like to describe how I do it, my pricing and products
and hear back from others on what they have seen or done. I know
there may be a big difference between those that sell ON-SITE and
those that don't. That's what I would really like to hear about!

Anyway, I can shoot about 7,000 shots a weekend at a dance event.
I use a Nikon D1x, couple 1GB microdrives and a MindStore. I have
a table set up with a laptop and flatpanel display running slide
shows. At the start of the event I run slides of an older event.
By Friday night I start having it run slides of shots from the
event and keep adding to the slide show as the weekend progresses.
I also post a sign below the monitor so people see how many
pictures I have taken. Folks are amazed by Saturday night to see
something like "4,500 Pictures so far...", and they will sometimes
congregate around the screen for a while looking for themselves and
friends.

After the end of the event, I organize and put everything into web
galleries on my home page organized by division. I also most CD's
and send them to some of the instructors (with PROOF across the
images).

People e-mail me to place an order. I edit the images, sent them
to dotPhoto or oFoto for processing and mailing straight to the
customer. At $0.17 a 4x6 from dotPhoto, well, great price! I then
e-mail the customer a bill and they pay by check. At some point I
will set it up for credit card orders and prefer payment before
processing, but for now, I have not had a problem.

Now, let's talk numbers...............

I use to charge $4 for a 4x6, $7 for a 5x7 and I think $12 for an
8x10. I got a lot of orders, but it was a lot of work. And 90% of
the orders were for 4x6.

This last event I did, I raised my prices to $7 for a 4x6, $10 for
a 5x7, $15 for an 8x10.

Now, it is too early to see the final results since I still have
orders coming in, but ROUGHLY, I saw a 40% drop in orders, but of
course the average $ per order shot up quite a bit! I love getting
the same amount of money with less work.... But I am considering
dropping back to $6 or changing some other things. My average
order size was $42 and now it is $63 per order.

So, what could I do different? What do other people do of have you
seen?

On-site printing would be one thing. I'd love to hear how people
are doing with that. Do customers like an ink jet print? I have
an Epson 1270 and I love it, but too slow for some of these orders
for 20 4x6's at high quality. And I heard people complain about
the photos from from photographer who did low res prints on HPs at
one event....

What about changing my products. Instead of offering 4x6's, only
offer 5x7's and higher. After all, I make more money off of them.
I'd rather boost my sales of them and not have to do so much work
to fulfill lots of little 4x6 orders...

I heard from one person at a rodeo event that she paid $100 for 4
pictures... 4 5x7's off of ink jet printers. and one of the
prints was scratched already and they had a horrible blue cast to
them. Very lousy quality! I manually run everything through
PhotoShop - crop, curves, sharpen, and even retouch to remove
background objects, and stuff. I want them to look great!

I am also curious about if people have stopped selling smaller
prints to get customers to buy larger ones as a result of people
potentially buying small prints and enlarging them themselves..

So what else do people do? How about costs and products offered?
What services do you use for fulfillment? How do you handle
billing? Just curious...

Thanks,

-Ray

--
[email protected]
http://www.RayBowersPhotography.com
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
 
deshawn said:
i read a forum on ron galbraith's ite on event photography, and most
photographers said:
4x6 or 5x7 were the prints of choice.
i am thinking of getting sony new 4x6 printer, and hock it up to a
monitor and print 4x6 in less than 1min, take a pre-paid order for
anything larger
Click to expand...
Actually, that may be an interesting idea. I hadn't seriously considered mixing on-site printing for some and prepaying for silver prints to be done later for others.

A good way to possibly solve the quality question and balance it against the "I want it in my hands now" desire may be to show the pictures on-site. Give customers the option to buy and get 4x6's on site. Larger prints later or for people who want silver prints, take their order, prepaid, and mail it to them later.

After each event division, I could download the images to the computer and run a web gallery. Maybe have a couple cheap computers for customer to it down at and browse on their own too... One laptop then for an assistant to help with order processing and a small 4x6 printer or two. Small and portable... On-site printing of package sheets for a premium price if they really want an 8x10 on-site?

Just ideas... Lots of logistics to work out to process and display photos on-site and be able to take and track orders.

Must more work than simply shooting the event and taking orders via e-mail later.

Thanks for the ideas,

-Ray
[email protected] http://www.RayBowersPhotography.com
 
Have you thought of using the Olympus P400 dye sub printer with a print life of 100 years and indistinguishable from commercial prints!?? This might be a solution and it's small enough to take on-site. Takes about 2 minutes to print an 8x10!
Marlene DeGrood said:
Are your customers aware of the limited time span of inkjet prints?
I am an event photographer (for the past 18 years) and although I
love my digital photography work for playing around, I only use
traditional film and prints for customers. Until I can be sure
that "they" come up with an archival ink to use in inkjet prints,
I'll stick to film.

Marlene
Ray Bowers said:
Hi,

I am curious if anyone else would care to share their observations
in using digital photography to do events. No, not the technical
aspects, I am talking about the business of it.

I do dance competitions. I started as a dancers, and my hobby kind
of grew. I'd like to describe how I do it, my pricing and products
and hear back from others on what they have seen or done. I know
there may be a big difference between those that sell ON-SITE and
those that don't. That's what I would really like to hear about!

Anyway, I can shoot about 7,000 shots a weekend at a dance event.
I use a Nikon D1x, couple 1GB microdrives and a MindStore. I have
a table set up with a laptop and flatpanel display running slide
shows. At the start of the event I run slides of an older event.
By Friday night I start having it run slides of shots from the
event and keep adding to the slide show as the weekend progresses.
I also post a sign below the monitor so people see how many
pictures I have taken. Folks are amazed by Saturday night to see
something like "4,500 Pictures so far...", and they will sometimes
congregate around the screen for a while looking for themselves and
friends.

After the end of the event, I organize and put everything into web
galleries on my home page organized by division. I also most CD's
and send them to some of the instructors (with PROOF across the
images).

People e-mail me to place an order. I edit the images, sent them
to dotPhoto or oFoto for processing and mailing straight to the
customer. At $0.17 a 4x6 from dotPhoto, well, great price! I then
e-mail the customer a bill and they pay by check. At some point I
will set it up for credit card orders and prefer payment before
processing, but for now, I have not had a problem.

Now, let's talk numbers...............

I use to charge $4 for a 4x6, $7 for a 5x7 and I think $12 for an
8x10. I got a lot of orders, but it was a lot of work. And 90% of
the orders were for 4x6.

This last event I did, I raised my prices to $7 for a 4x6, $10 for
a 5x7, $15 for an 8x10.

Now, it is too early to see the final results since I still have
orders coming in, but ROUGHLY, I saw a 40% drop in orders, but of
course the average $ per order shot up quite a bit! I love getting
the same amount of money with less work.... But I am considering
dropping back to $6 or changing some other things. My average
order size was $42 and now it is $63 per order.

So, what could I do different? What do other people do of have you
seen?

On-site printing would be one thing. I'd love to hear how people
are doing with that. Do customers like an ink jet print? I have
an Epson 1270 and I love it, but too slow for some of these orders
for 20 4x6's at high quality. And I heard people complain about
the photos from from photographer who did low res prints on HPs at
one event....

What about changing my products. Instead of offering 4x6's, only
offer 5x7's and higher. After all, I make more money off of them.
I'd rather boost my sales of them and not have to do so much work
to fulfill lots of little 4x6 orders...

I heard from one person at a rodeo event that she paid $100 for 4
pictures... 4 5x7's off of ink jet printers. and one of the
prints was scratched already and they had a horrible blue cast to
them. Very lousy quality! I manually run everything through
PhotoShop - crop, curves, sharpen, and even retouch to remove
background objects, and stuff. I want them to look great!

I am also curious about if people have stopped selling smaller
prints to get customers to buy larger ones as a result of people
potentially buying small prints and enlarging them themselves..

So what else do people do? How about costs and products offered?
What services do you use for fulfillment? How do you handle
billing? Just curious...

Thanks,

-Ray

--
[email protected]
http://www.RayBowersPhotography.com
Click to expand...
--
Marlene
Click to expand...
--Olympus E-10 (Still tilting at windmills...foolish me!)Gallery: http://www.pbase.com/galleries/cokids
 
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