U.S. buyers: Wolf/Ritz camera losing money by not price matching....

CharlieDIY · Nov 14, 2006

James Cafferty said:
I only shop Ritz Camera when I want to pay list price, which is
very seldom. Reliable e-tailers + Circuit City + Best Buy always
seem to have a sale going on --- with just the right item --- and
at a better price.

I don't shop CC or BB for cameras or photo gear. Their prices are too high, and their sales staff knows more about pimple cream than cameras, is far more interested in the latest release by whatever band, and I use the word loosely, is popular. I've been in Circuit City stores in two states where it was nearly impossible to get waited on because the employees are too busy chatting. That's silly, so I just stopped CC shopping. Best Buy is good for electronic entertainment gear and not much else, though at times CDs and DVDs approach the prices you can find during sales at Office Max, Office Depot and Staples.
--
Charlie Self
http://www.charlieselfonline.com

CharlieDIY · Nov 14, 2006

Forrest said:
The make their money selling P&S cameras for x-mas. And charging
way too much to make prints all year round. They don't care how
much money they're not getting at the high end, because they don't
play in that league. Like someone else said, they're the 7-11 of
camera stores.

OK. I just checked their print pricing. It seems in line with other stores, so I don't get your knock on that. Are the prints poorly done? Is an under 30 buck 20x30 really out of line?
--
Charlie Self
http://www.charlieselfonline.com

Robert Strom · Nov 14, 2006

Even before the internet came along camera stores knew that selling cameras and lenses would not keep them in business. The main profit was in photo finishing and accesories.

I used to work in a Mon & Pop (literally) camera store and they only carried large ticket cameras and lenses to draw people in and depend on their return business for prints and accesories to keep the store profitable.

Robert
--
http://www.streamlinestudio.com

Greg Henry · Nov 14, 2006

acoolerclimate said:
I bought a Kodak P880 from Ritz camera in August. None of the other
electronic stores sell the P880, Ritz was the only one I could find
it at.

--------

For future reference, check out Costco. They have that model for under $300 after rebate:

http://www.costco.com/Browse/Product.aspx?Prodid=11100921&whse=BC&topnav=&browse=

You don't need an extended warranty via Costco as they'll take it back if something goes wrong with it pretty much whenever you bring it in. Wolf/Ritz brags that their extended warranties are "all inclusive", meaning even if the defect is your fault (dropping it, etc) then they'll fix or replace it. They charge a huge price for this warranty.

Most people don't realize you can get a "floater" policy via your renters or home owners insurance for very little money on camera gear. Example: Back when the Canon 10D came out Best Buy was the only local store here that had them in stock. For $75 I got a 4 year extended warranty that covers mfg. defects. Via my renters insurance, I got full non-deductable covers for the camera plus a lens for only $1.75 a month that covers everything else - theft, fire, my dropping it, dog peeing on it, etc. That's a lot better than Wolf's "all inclusive" scam. Just something to be aware of next time. ;-)

Greg Henry · Nov 14, 2006

PhotoTraveler said:
Besides, why bother with ritz, why not just buy from BHphoto. It's
not like your supporting your local mom and pop shop by buying at
ritz.

I think most people WOULD prefer to buy from a local brick and mortar store for the simple fact that if there is something wrong with an item (DOA, dust inside lens, etc) they can just run it back to the store quickly and swap it out for a new one. As nice as it is to save money via online ordering, you have huge hassles (and wasted time) having to ship something back for an exchange if there is anything wrong.

Greg Henry · Nov 14, 2006

Robert Strom said:
I used to work in a Mon & Pop (literally) camera store and they
only carried large ticket cameras and lenses to draw people in and
depend on their return business for prints and accesories to keep
the store profitable.

Yeah, I worked at a Motophoto back in the 80s, and that was our thing. No one ever bought any of the few cameras we did sell, but our well known thing in the area was that we didn't have a problem processing nudie pics. Amazing how many postal workers and police officers (of both sexes) have naked pics they had done. icky.

aufinger · Nov 14, 2006

Greg Henry said:
In Atlanta however, the
Wolf/Ritz chain has completely taken over the entire metro area.
60+ "mall stores". Their 14th street "super store" was even
recently shut down to make way for a new road, and they decided not
to open a new super store - they're sticking to mall-sized stores,
period.

Actually Wolf opened an "Ultra" store on Piedmont Road in Buckhead where they have a full selection of cameras and bodies (unlike their mall stores).

Greg Henry said:
KEH Camera, which is actually based here in Atlanta as well.... "We
can't - they don't actually have a walk-in retail showroom, so we
don't consider them to be a store".

No - KEH doesn't have a walk-in retail showroom, but if you call in an order early in the day, they'll have it pulled for you to pickup by late afternoon. I've done that on more than a few occassions and since I had already made my purchasing decision, it worked just fine for me.

Larry G.
Stone Mtn, GA

aufinger · Nov 14, 2006

aufinger said:
...where they have a full selection of cameras and bodies....

I left out that they have a full selection of lenses as well.

Larry G
Stone Mtn, GA

Wolfeye · Nov 14, 2006

I'm not so sure.

We've had Ritz Camera stores over the years here in eastern Iowa, but while the local stores seem to be going strong (Porters of Waterloo & Cedar Rapids, Proto Pro in Cedar Rapids, University Camera in Iowa City) the two Ritz mall stores have closed and gone. It wasn't on price, believe me, as none of the local stores try to compete with B&H and Adorama.

I rather liked having the Ritz at the nall and bought a few things from them because I was in the mall, but would never buy anything "big" from them at their inflated mall-store prices.

Forrest said:
How many 5D bodies do you think Ritz sold? Or 1Ds? I bet you
could count on one hand...

The make their money selling P&S cameras for x-mas. And charging
way too much to make prints all year round. They don't care how
much money they're not getting at the high end, because they don't
play in that league. Like someone else said, they're the 7-11 of
camera stores.

CharlieDIY · Nov 14, 2006

Wolfeye said:
I'm not so sure.

We've had Ritz Camera stores over the years here in eastern Iowa,
but while the local stores seem to be going strong (Porters of
Waterloo & Cedar Rapids, Proto Pro in Cedar Rapids, University
Camera in Iowa City) the two Ritz mall stores have closed and gone.
It wasn't on price, believe me, as none of the local stores try to
compete with B&H and Adorama.

I rather liked having the Ritz at the nall and bought a few things
from them because I was in the mall, but would never buy anything
"big" from them at their inflated mall-store prices.

Those mall prices are why many people don't buy from companies like Ritz. As for Porter's, I live in Virginia and have been buying small items, unusual things, hard to locate things, from them for a bunch of years.
--
Charlie Self
http://www.charlieselfonline.com

Joe Mondello · Nov 14, 2006

Ritz (Wolf) have purchased all the little camera stores near my family in Sarasota and near me in Manhattan.

On two occasions this local NYC Ritz store had in stock very very hard to find items a Nikon 105VR Macro and a Nikon 28mm f 1.4 AF-D. In each case their price was a little higher ($50, but these lenses are very expensive), but no one else actually had these lenses at all anyway!

So I walked in there to get a new Canon G7, and they had one at $599, so I showed them ads from 3 other NYC retailers with stores all at $529 and they wouldn't budge a nickel. Then again, B&H (who had 3 the day before) also wouldn't budge on their $575 price.

I wound up getting it for $539 (no tax, free shipping) from Amazon. Between the $60 off and the 8.5% sales tax (another $65) I saved a nice chunk of change.

So I check the fine print in their price match policy and it expressly excludes "new merchandise."
--
Cheers,
Joe

James Cafferty · Nov 14, 2006

Joe Mondello wrote:
...

Member said:
On two occasions this local NYC Ritz store had in stock very very
hard to find items a Nikon 105VR Macro and a Nikon 28mm f 1.4 AF-D.
In each case their price was a little higher ($50, but these lenses
are very expensive), but no one else actually had these lenses at
all anyway!

So I walked in there to get a new Canon G7, and they had one at
$599, so I showed them ads from 3 other NYC retailers with stores
all at $529 and they wouldn't budge a nickel. Then again, B&H (who
had 3 the day before) also wouldn't budge on their $575 price.

I wound up getting it for $539 (no tax, free shipping) from Amazon.
Between the $60 off and the 8.5% sales tax (another $65) I saved a
nice chunk of change.

So I check the fine print in their price match policy and it
expressly excludes "new merchandise."
--
Cheers,
Joe

If Ritz had decided that "half a loaf is better than none" and reduced the price by $15 to $20 --- would you have bought the G7 from them? Most progressive companies will "work with you" to make a sale or lose business to those who know how to play the game.
All the best,
Jim
--
Favorite slogan: Photographers take pictures, not cameras.

Forrest41926 · Nov 14, 2006

CharlieDIY said:
OK. I just checked their print pricing. It seems in line with other
stores, so I don't get your knock on that. Are the prints poorly
done? Is an under 30 buck 20x30 really out of line?

I've never paid less than $4 for an 8x10 when I've walked into any of their stores to have one printed, and they've tried to charge me as much as $10 for one.

Forrest41926 · Nov 14, 2006

James Cafferty said:
If Ritz had decided that "half a loaf is better than none" and
reduced the price by $15 to $20 --- would you have bought the G7
from them? Most progressive companies will "work with you" to make
a sale or lose business to those who know how to play the game.

I have no idea what a G7 costs, but sometimes it's better to turn down a bads deal than it is to sell something at a loss. When you add in rent and salary, that probably explains Triz's policy.

I'm guessing if I offered you $5 for your car, and told you I could spend as much as $10 USD, you'd probably laugh, instead of trying to work with me because half a loaf is better than none...? You'd rather loose my business, no?

This isn't to defend Ritz, nor to explain their denise. Ritz's target customer is the type of person who doesn't want to play this game. I haven't been inside a mall in several years, but I bet they're still packed with people who spend money to find solace.

Joe Mondello · Nov 14, 2006

James Cafferty said:
If Ritz had decided that "half a loaf is better than none" and
reduced the price by $15 to $20 --- would you have bought the G7
from them? Most progressive companies will "work with you" to make
a sale or lose business to those who know how to play the game.
All the best,
Jim

Yeah, I was there and ready to buy and if they had matched J&R's $549 or even B&H's $575 I probably would have taken it, but the abject refusal to budge AT ALL despite their so-called "price match" policy meant I was gonna walk this time.

But as I said, I have paid their price before when they were the only ones I could find who had a particular hot item.

--
Cheers,
Joe

CharlieDIY · Nov 15, 2006

Forrest said:
This isn't to defend Ritz, nor to explain their denise. Ritz's
target customer is the type of person who doesn't want to play this
game. I haven't been inside a mall in several years, but I bet
they're still packed with people who spend money to find solace.

A person after my own heart. I have bad knees, and mall flooring is not acceptable. I don't much care for those motorized carts, since my legs DO work; they just hurt after I walk on concrete too long. Too, very, very few mall stores offer necessities or even what I class as 'nice to have' items. It's mostly trendy junk that keep teens and their parents coming back.

Fortunately, one company recently built a very, very good movie house outside a mall, which made me happy. Or makes me happy the three or four times I get to a movie each year. In Parkersburg, the only way to see a movie was to go to the mall.
--
Charlie Self
http://www.charlieselfonline.com

Jim Coffey · Nov 15, 2006

Greg Henry said:
On the TV commercials you see David Ritz (owner/CEO) saying they,
"will not be outdone" on pricing and that they'll offer the best
price on an item.

The mistaken conception is that price matching is done for the consumer; it's not. It's done to keep prices higher than they would be without a "price match policy." How does this work - Ritz is signalling other stores (legally) that they will drop their prices to match theirs and engage in a price war as well as they will not drop theirs to start one by advertising prices that are reasonable from a business perspective. This allows the chain to set prices that gives them the desired margin; others then follow because they can get the same price, effectively letting the big store set pices in an area. If a smaller store advertises lower prices all it does it bring business to Ritz while costing them advertising dollars and lowering their margins; so they don't do that.

Consider how you phrased it - "Ritz lost xx business - if another store has lower prices why not buy from them? Probably becasue Ritz is closer to you and more convienent - so why should store xx simply spend money to drive business to Ritz?

in the end a price war is averted. We have peace in our time.

Jim Coffey · Nov 15, 2006

Joe Mondello said:
Yeah, I was there and ready to buy and if they had matched J&R's
$549 or even B&H's $575 I probably would have taken it, but the
abject refusal to budge AT ALL despite their so-called "price
match" policy meant I was gonna walk this time.

But Ritz does not want B&H or J&R to set their prices, otherwise the B&H catalogue becomes their defacto price list and they lose ontrol over their margins. In addition, they have a different cost structure than the big mail order houses with only one or two stores in NYC / LI. Nor does B&H want them to do that - then people will get their catalogue but buy locally - driving up their cost of business.

In the ned it is simply economics driven behavior.

Member said:
But as I said, I have paid their price before when they were the
only ones I could find who had a particular hot item.

Of course, that's what they want.

Robert Strom · Nov 15, 2006

PhotoTraveler said:
Besides, why bother with ritz, why not just buy from BHphoto. It's
not like your supporting your local mom and pop shop by buying at
ritz.

You may not be supporting a M&P store but you are supporting mom's and pop's that work there.

Our local Ritz is managed by a guy and several other retail clerks that have been there for years and are very knowledgable in the cameras, etc. they sell.

If I know exactly what I want to buy I don't waste their time and go on-line, but there have been times I needed some informed advice on a selection. I then paid more because I was paying for their expertise and it was worth it.

If your local Ritz/Wolfe is staffed by minimum wage no brainers, then don't fo there. We are lucky enough to have a store that is able to pay to retain people who pride themselves on their knowledge even if I have to wait 10 minutes for a clerk to finish explaining for the 10th time that day how a P&S works to a newbie who will probably do an "I'll be back" and go online to save $20.00.

MTW, Robert
--
http://www.streamlinestudio.com

Greg Henry · Nov 15, 2006

Robert Strom said:
You may not be supporting a M&P store but you are supporting mom's
and pop's that work there.

Robert Strom said:
Our local Ritz is managed by a guy and several other retail clerks
that have been there for years and are very knowledgable in the
cameras, etc. they sell.

Robert Strom said:
If your local Ritz/Wolfe is staffed by minimum wage no brainers,
then don't fo there. We are lucky enough to have a store that is
able to pay to retain people who pride themselves on their
knowledge even if I have to wait 10 minutes for a clerk to finish
explaining for the 10th time that day how a P&S works to a newbie
who will probably do an "I'll be back" and go online to save $20.00.

-----------------

Wow, you're lucky.

In Atlanta, most Wolf/Ritz stores are in malls (as in "mall employees"). Most staffers are of "just out of high school" ages and act as though they'd rather be anywhere BUT standing there talking to you. I've even seen a couple of them have personal cell phone conversations while dealing with customers.

There are only two exceptions that I've seen, at least. The Wolf superstore downtown (which they closed) and there is ONE local Wolf store not far from me (where I went to try to get the matching). Unfortuanately these small mall-sized stores don't carry any stock worth talking about - they have to "order" what you want, in which case you might as well do the B&H thing and save money. Unfortuantely in many cases with cameras or lenses, you're talking about a good bit more than $20, too.

U.S. buyers: Wolf/Ritz camera losing money by not price matching....

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