U.S. buyers: Wolf/Ritz camera losing money by not price matching....

A question for buyers here in the U.S...

In some areas such as NYC, you still have nice brick and mortar stores like B&H, and in some smaller market areas like Indiana and Ohio you have small chains like Roberts. In Atlanta however, the Wolf/Ritz chain has completely taken over the entire metro area. 60+ "mall stores". Their 14th street "super store" was even recently shut down to make way for a new road, and they decided not to open a new super store - they're sticking to mall-sized stores, period.

On the TV commercials you see David Ritz (owner/CEO) saying they, "will not be outdone" on pricing and that they'll offer the best price on an item.

Ok, let's test this... I decide to get a lens. I do print outs from a variety of stores to take in to see about price matching. Here are the results:

B&H - "We can't - they sell GRAY MARKET, so we can't".
17th Street Photo - "Same excuse"
42nd Street Photo - "Same excuse"
47th Street Photo - "Same excuse"
Buydig.com - "Same excuse"

Roberts (midwest chain of stores) - "They don't have any stores in Atlanta, so they're not considered competition".

my favorite...

KEH Camera, which is actually based here in Atlanta as well.... "We can't - they don't actually have a walk-in retail showroom, so we don't consider them to be a store".

DEAR GOD!!

Wolf/Ritz has probably lost $2,600 from me alone over time due to this, "We'll match prices - well, not REALLY" policy of theirs. No huge loss to me - I got what I wanted at the price I wanted, and they're the ones who lost out on my dollars. Still, I'm just interested who else in here has taken their business elsewhere when they wouldn't do the same for you? How much of your money did they miss out on?

Greg Henry said:

DEAR GOD!!

Wolf/Ritz has probably lost $2,600 from me alone over time due to
this, "We'll match prices - well, not REALLY" policy of theirs. No
huge loss to me - I got what I wanted at the price I wanted, and
they're the ones who lost out on my dollars. Still, I'm just
interested who else in here has taken their business elsewhere when
they wouldn't do the same for you? How much of your money did they
miss out on?

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After checking Ritz's prices years ago, I was both astonished and disappointed when, a few years ago, they bought out the best local camera store. It wasn't the cheapest by any stretch, but it was the best, with three stores. The owner got a deal he felt he couldn't refuse. A few months later, I went into one store and found none of the personnel that had made the original store great, and the gear selection sadly dropped off; Ritz closed one outlying store and opened a mall store. I twice tried to find sensible sized camera bags at two of the stores, and gave up.

Now, mail order is it.
--
Charlie Self
http://www.charlieselfonline.com

Why not try Showcaase and Photo Barn? Showcase is in Atlanta and Photo Barn is in Lilburn. Or try PPR in Atlanta. Or Quality Camera in Atlanta.

Actually, they will match showcase, but their prices are pretty much exactly the same as Wolf (many times to the penny) on lenses, etc.

Bob Sal said:

Why not try Showcaase and Photo Barn? Showcase is in Atlanta and
Photo Barn is in Lilburn. Or try PPR in Atlanta. Or Quality Camera
in Atlanta.

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-------

Sorry.. started to do that other post and entered before I was done.

What I was saying, is that Wolf will match Showcase, but with showcase being a standalone smaller shop, their prices usually match Wolf's dollar for dollar. PPR and Quality are local, but for the most part do not publish their prices for items on their web sites, so of course Wolf uses THAT as an excuse. Once you corner Wolf - you find a LOCAL place that has a REAL showroom.... then they say they have to be "published" prices before they'll match them. In other words, you literally have to have another local store (few) that has a walk-in retail show room, and sells through the showroom, and who has a price advertised in a flier for them to match it.

Hardly the "we won't be undersold" slogan on the commercials.

As I said, hey, I'll just order the stuff from one of the other sources... but I'm just curous as to how much money Wolf is losing by not taking the time to match some of this stuff.

Get over it, it's called capitalism & it's the US way.

Unfortunately, until they are particulalrly egregiously "false", and some DA decides to really attack the matter, they are going to do what they want. In reality, they'd probably lose a lot more money if they don't control price matching - people would expect matching on the bait & switch scum stores.

mips said:

Get over it, it's called capitalism & it's the US way.

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It's called false advertising, but isn't blatant enough to bring prosecution. It is not a basic tenet of capitalism, unless you accept that concept that all capitalists are sleazes.
--
Charlie Self
http://www.charlieselfonline.com

I think of Ritz as the Seven-11 of camera stores. For times when you just can't wait for it to be shipped and need something now! However their inventory in most medium and small market is limited to the low end consumer retail market.

Andy

Surely it's not a case of price matching with swindling stores but stemming the swelling tide of Internet competition.

Organisations which do not keep up , & in this context this means taking into account Internet suppliers prices, are ultimately doomed to fail.

The excuse used is that personal service is worth paying a little extra for but unless stores charge for advice there is nothing to stop personal customers from picking their brains & then buying of the Internet.

It's no good shaking your head & decrying modern ethics - that Canute mentality will not prevent an increasing loss of customers.

Keith-C

Andy Silvers said:

I think of Ritz as the Seven-11 of camera stores. For times when
you just can't wait for it to be shipped and need something now!
However their inventory in most medium and small market is limited
to the low end consumer retail market.

Click to expand...

I agree! I only go to Ritz/Wolf for small items like polarizer filters, lens caps, etc....

I have also been there a few times to "handle" a camera before ordering elsewhere as their prices are usually 20% or more higher plus taxes....but less often now that I am using OLYs and they don't carry the line.
--
Equipement in profile.

KEITH-C said:

The excuse used is that personal service is worth paying a little
extra for but unless stores charge for advice there is nothing to
stop personal customers from picking their brains & then buying of
the Internet.

Click to expand...

That was the only thing Wolf had going for it in Atlanta - was the 14th street 'super store'. Huge in comparison to anything else here, and it was staffed by mostly people in their 30s-50s who KNEW what they were talking about (even if they were known for being a bit snobby sometimes).

When they recently closed that store to make way for a new road, all they did was open a typical hole-in-the-wall mall sized store elsewhere, and said no more super stores would open. One store manager told me David Ritz was quoted as saying he'd, "rather have 6 mall stores that make a million dollars each, than one super store that makes 6 million". DUH. So, give customers less stock item choices by having only tiny stores - fire the mature salespeople in favor of 20-something mall employees... but that's ok, because the bottom line isn't disturbed. geesh.

Anyway - I think the idea is that a good number of people use Wolf to handle cameras and preview them, then take their money elsewhere since they don't match most online or out of state prices. They're still doing well, but still losing sales.

Rappasol said:

I have also been there a few times to "handle" a camera before
ordering elsewhere as their prices are usually 20% or more higher
plus taxes....

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I think they would be surprised to find out just how many folks do that, too.

I only shop Ritz Camera when I want to pay list price, which is very seldom. Reliable e-tailers + Circuit City + Best Buy always seem to have a sale going on --- with just the right item --- and at a better price. What Ritz / Wolf fails to recognize is that everyone who sells the same product is a competitor, and that the word eventually gets around that their "price matching" boast is nothing more than BS. And, most people will take advantage of $100 to $300 savings by ordering on the WEB, or from another local, well stocked competitor. Unless they wake up and smell the coffee, their future is looking mighty dim.
Jim
--
Favorite slogan: Photographers take pictures, not cameras.

I bought a Kodak P880 from Ritz camera in August. None of the other electronic stores sell the P880, Ritz was the only one I could find it at. At the time it was selling for a good price, $400, so I decided to buy. The counter person started the spiel on an extended warrenty. I was used to Bestbuy or Cuircuit City selling a warrenty for between $50 and $100 dollars and was going to buy, but Ritz wanted $250 for 3 years! As this was close to the camera cost, I declined. Well, she wouldn't quit. She kept at it, finally berating me for not accepting. She finally lowered the price for a 2 year contract, but it was still $150. I finally told her if she didn't just sell me the camera now, I was just going to walk out. At that she relented, but at this point I was exhausted, angry, and in a foul mood. She wrecked what had started out as an exciting day. I vowed never to buy from Ritz again, I can't take that kind of pressure, just no fun. If the price had been reasonable, I would have purchased it. I had it on my first digital camera and I ended up using it twice.

Just my two cents about Ritz. I guess it will be mail order from now on.

Do they ever say they will price match? if they just say they offer the lowest price, that has nothing to do with price matching, just them claiming to be the cheapest.

Also, I don't think you will find very many stores that price match to online shops.

BH has a store, but they arn't at all close to you.

So really, there stance seams about right. If you could find another local camera store, and take them their price, and ritz says they price match, I'm sure they will probably do it.

Besides, why bother with ritz, why not just buy from BHphoto. It's not like your supporting your local mom and pop shop by buying at ritz.

KEITH-C said:

Surely it's not a case of price matching with swindling stores but
stemming the swelling tide of Internet competition.

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But that's a different problem. Lots of stores advertise they price match, like most of the different hardware, electronics and computer stores, with restrictive terms as well. They aren't looking to sell to the savvy buyers, they are looking to impress the folks that actually think that kind of store is truly cutting edge on prices. Sears got slugged by all kinds of geniuses who brought in price matches with the slimebuckets. So the stores learned, sometimes slowly that they can't price match willy-nilly with just everyone. It's like the people who buy from Costco intending to use something for 6 months and then swap it back. Costco will risk that model only until it makes sense to drop it. And the "customers" will have earned that reduction in service.

KEITH-C said:

Organisations which do not keep up , & in this context this means
taking into account Internet suppliers prices, are ultimately
doomed to fail.

Click to expand...

Ritz has it's own internet operation, they know what's happening out there. Their internet prices are nothing to write home about - except on the newest items when they suck up sales taxes, etc. Their service plan is better than some as it has aspects of both warranty and insurance. Still makes them money - and it's still not sold to a good chunk of thinking customers. They want to make money off the mall patrons not compete with B&H. If they decide to compete with B&H, the mall stores will disappear. What's really surprising is that they actually have some rather esoteric stuff in some of their stores - because it's the kind of stuff an advanced hobbyist or pro would use and by then, most have figured out better sourcing options.

KEITH-C said:

The excuse used is that personal service is worth paying a little
extra for but unless stores charge for advice there is nothing to
stop personal customers from picking their brains & then buying of
the Internet.

Click to expand...

Few brains to be picked at most mall stores of any type.

KEITH-C said:

It's no good shaking your head & decrying modern ethics - that
Canute mentality will not prevent an increasing loss of customers.

Click to expand...

Modern ethics? Don't be silly. Bottom feeders aren't new. Ritz has chosen to not compete with B&H pricing, not out of ignorance but because they are targeting a crowd that typically doesn't know better. That's why they have a cheezy matching policy. It's marketing fluff. If they weren't making money at what they are doing, they wouldn't do it.

KEITH-C said:

Keith-C

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I wound't go to Ritz, my local store no more. One time I bought a case for my point and shoot camera for $38. After I got home I found out that its normal cost was only $12 something. I went back and asked a clerk and a manager if they can match the price because all other stores are selling much, much cheaper. No one even answer my question even I asked serveral times. They just gave me the money. I felt I was a dumb or something...

===
Sandy

How many 5D bodies do you think Ritz sold? Or 1Ds? I bet you could count on one hand...

The make their money selling P&S cameras for x-mas. And charging way too much to make prints all year round. They don't care how much money they're not getting at the high end, because they don't play in that league. Like someone else said, they're the 7-11 of camera stores.

Greg Henry said:

Rappasol said:

I have also been there a few times to "handle" a camera before
ordering elsewhere as their prices are usually 20% or more higher
plus taxes....

Click to expand...

I think they would be surprised to find out just how many folks do
that, too.

Click to expand...

I doubt it. Bebacks are factored into any business's plans.

--
Charlie Self
http://www.charlieselfonline.com