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Firewire vs PCMCIA

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Jason Larson79823

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I am looking at buying a new laptop. Several of the models I have looked at come with the smaller 4-pin Firewire jack. I have recently ordered a Lexar Firewire card reader (haven't got it yet), it uses the 6-pin jack. Is there an adapter to plug it into the 4-pin jack, or would it be just as fast to use the PCMCIA slot to download pics from a Microdrive?--Jason Larson
Shadowplay Photography
Gainesville, Florida
Canon D30 - Mamiya 645
 
Jason Larson said:
I am looking at buying a new laptop. Several of the models I have
looked at come with the smaller 4-pin Firewire jack. I have
recently ordered a Lexar Firewire card reader (haven't got it yet),
it uses the 6-pin jack. Is there an adapter to plug it into the
4-pin jack, or would it be just as fast to use the PCMCIA slot to
download pics from a Microdrive?
Click to expand...
Firewire cables come in a variety of flavors:

6-pin to 6-pin
4-pin to 4-pin
6-pin to 4-pin

Simply get the correct cable and you're all set to go.

-- John
 
John Gayman said:
Firewire cables come in a variety of flavors:

6-pin to 6-pin
4-pin to 4-pin
6-pin to 4-pin

Simply get the correct cable and you're all set to go.

-- John
Click to expand...
Like I said I haven't got my new drive yet, but I believe the cable is built into the drive and has a 6-pin plug. I was woundering if there was a simple adapter to convert the 6-pin to 4-pin.
--Jason LarsonShadowplay PhotographyGainesville, FloridaCanon D30 - Mamiya 645
 
Jason Larson79823 said:
I am looking at buying a new laptop. Several of the models I have
looked at come with the smaller 4-pin Firewire jack. I have
recently ordered a Lexar Firewire card reader (haven't got it yet),
it uses the 6-pin jack. Is there an adapter to plug it into the
4-pin jack, or would it be just as fast to use the PCMCIA slot to
download pics from a Microdrive?
Click to expand...
I am fairly sure the extra two pins are to carry power. If the Lexar card reader has it's own power supply a normal 4 pin to 6 pin FW cable (which you can buy at MicroCenter, or many other places) will work just fine. I'm not sure what to do if you need to supply power though.

I have not used a FireWire card reader, but I beleve the PCMCIA slot readers run the CF card as fast as they can go anyway, so even though FireWire itself is faster the PCMCIA, in this case you don't see the extra speed. However you need a double high PCMCIA slot to handle a MicroDrive, and not all of the CF sleds fit the microdrive.

P.S. be sure you look at Apple's iBook and TiBook :-)
 
As far as I know one size fits all.

If your device is a four pin to four pin for instance then a six pin will do - the other pins are merely redundant.

If your device is a six pin and a four pin lead is used some communication functions are lost or not made.
 
stripes said:
I am fairly sure the extra two pins are to carry power. If the
Lexar card reader has it's own power supply a normal 4 pin to 6 pin
FW cable (which you can buy at MicroCenter, or many other places)
will work just fine. I'm not sure what to do if you need to supply
power though.

I have not used a FireWire card reader, but I beleve the PCMCIA
slot readers run the CF card as fast as they can go anyway, so even
though FireWire itself is faster the PCMCIA, in this case you don't
see the extra speed. However you need a double high PCMCIA slot to
handle a MicroDrive, and not all of the CF sleds fit the microdrive.

P.S. be sure you look at Apple's iBook and TiBook :-)
Click to expand...
I think the power might be the kicker. I am pretty sure the drive is powered through the firewire connection.

I have the PCMCIA adapter that came with my microdrive, so that is not a problem. I have read elsewhere that the throughput from PCMCIA is about half of a firewire connection.

I've been a PC user from the beginning. Having said that, I've been lusting after Ti Powerbook for a year, but I just can't justify the cost of it, AND buying new Mac versions of all my software. (Running Win 2k Pro now) A Mac would solve the connection problem however, since they have a 6-pin Firewire jack.--Jason LarsonShadowplay PhotographyGainesville, FloridaCanon D30 - Mamiya 645
 
Why do those card-readers have to come with a "built-in" cable? My Firewire (and USB version, too) Microtech readers came with cables that are pre-attached, so you can't use a differernt cable.

I don't know of any adapters. You might check http://www.buy.com to see what they have.

As you seem to be aware, the 4-pin and 6-pin aren't physically compatible. So without an adapter, you're out of luck. I know they make 4-pin to 6-pin cables, but that's not what you need.

The Firewire should be faster than PCMCIA (I think), but I don't know by how much.

For convenience, I'd only take the PCMCIA adapter along with a laptop anyway. (Easy for me to say, since my laptop doesn't have Firewire on it -- LOL).
Jason Larson said:
I am looking at buying a new laptop. Several of the models I have
looked at come with the smaller 4-pin Firewire jack. I have
recently ordered a Lexar Firewire card reader (haven't got it yet),
it uses the 6-pin jack. Is there an adapter to plug it into the
4-pin jack, or would it be just as fast to use the PCMCIA slot to
download pics from a Microdrive?
--
Click to expand...
--The Unofficial Photographer of The Wilkinsons http://thewilkinsons.crosswinds.net
 
The extra two pins supply power, and the lexar card reader (which I also have) needs that. You could get a pcm to firewire adapter, but that sort of defeats the purpose of using firewire since it won't be any faster.

The upside of the compact flash PC card adapter is size; I used to have a 3-lb sony laptop (until the PC card slot died on me) and travel with it was very nicely convenient.

-- http://www.seanansorge.com
 
Jason Larson79823 said:
I think the power might be the kicker. I am pretty sure the drive
is powered through the firewire connection.
Click to expand...
That's a shame.
Jason Larson79823 said:
I have the PCMCIA adapter that came with my microdrive, so that is
not a problem. I have read elsewhere that the throughput from
PCMCIA is about half of a firewire connection.
Click to expand...
Hmmm, well, I do seem to get decent throughput:

23577673 bytes transferred in 16 secs (1473604 bytes/sec)

Twice as fast wouldn't be bad though. I do wonder how they get it to run faster though. Clearly I have some things to learn about CF cards. Oh, this test was run on an old PowerMac (pre-TiBook).
Jason Larson79823 said:
I've been a PC user from the beginning. Having said that, I've been
lusting after Ti Powerbook for a year, but I just can't justify the
cost of it, AND buying new Mac versions of all my software.
(Running Win 2k Pro now) A Mac would solve the connection problem
however, since they have a 6-pin Firewire jack.
Click to expand...
I understand, I got this one in '99, hadn't used a Mac since about '86, never owned one before. Man is it nicer then all the Windows boxes I ever had though :-)

If the software cost isn't the whole problem you might look at the referb TiBook prices from http://www.smalldog.com , I think they start at about $1500. These are the ones that were new about six months ago, so they are a little slower then the current ones, but not too much. Apparently Apple's current loan promo is valid for them as well (which is 180 days no payments, then 9.(mumble-mumble)%, no early pay off penality), but you should double check that.

Or you can get a Windows box, don't worry, I won't hunt you down and kill you :-)
 
You don't need a Type III slot for the microdrive. I've been using it with a variety of PCMCIA adaptors for over a year and they are all single height.
stripes said:
Member said:
I am looking at buying a new laptop. Several of the models I have
looked at come with the smaller 4-pin Firewire jack. I have
recently ordered a Lexar Firewire card reader (haven't got it yet),
it uses the 6-pin jack. Is there an adapter to plug it into the
4-pin jack, or would it be just as fast to use the PCMCIA slot to
download pics from a Microdrive?
Click to expand...
I am fairly sure the extra two pins are to carry power. If the
Lexar card reader has it's own power supply a normal 4 pin to 6 pin
FW cable (which you can buy at MicroCenter, or many other places)
will work just fine. I'm not sure what to do if you need to supply
power though.

I have not used a FireWire card reader, but I beleve the PCMCIA
slot readers run the CF card as fast as they can go anyway, so even
though FireWire itself is faster the PCMCIA, in this case you don't
see the extra speed. However you need a double high PCMCIA slot to
handle a MicroDrive, and not all of the CF sleds fit the microdrive.

P.S. be sure you look at Apple's iBook and TiBook :-)
Click to expand...
 
Jason,

The PCMCIA is faster than the Firewire, since the data does not need to get translated. My experience has been that the PCMCIA slot can usually run the Microdrive at its maximum speed, where as the Firewire port slows down a bit. If your laptop has a PCMCIA port, then use it!

Shervin
 
Not that I actually have any Firewire peripherals myself, but I suppose the power problem could be solved by using a HUB, which would have its own external power supply and thus be able to supply power to the reader also.

But generally, having a portable PC/MAC I would also suggest using the PCMCIA port.

--Kjeld Olesen http://www.geocities.com/acapixus
 
Sean

Looking at http://www.dpreview.com/articles/mediacompare/ reveals read speeds ranging between 2 MB/s to 4 MB/s using a FireWire reader. So these are limited by the speed of the media.

Using USB the speed should be limited by the USB connection, which if I do not remember wrongly, should give something like 1.5 MB/s.

This would, theoretically, translate into Firewire being 1.3 to 2.7 times faster, depending on the media.

Not really enough for me to get a FireWire port and reader, but 5x would do the trick.

What media are you using?
sean said:
BTW, the firewire reader seems about 5 times faster (rough guess)
than copying via USB. I'm quite happy with it.

--
http://www.seanansorge.com
Click to expand...
--Kjeld Olesen http://www.geocities.com/acapixus
 
As stated. Simply get the right cable. There is 1 type of FireWire:
6 pin.

There is 1 type of iLink:
4 pin.

Fire wire defines 6 wires. 2 for XMT 2 to RCV and 2 for power. iLink defines 4 wires. 2 for XMT and 2 for RCV. There is no power. The pairing of lines makes for great signals and very high bandwidth.

The only thing you loose by using a 4 pin iLink is the ability to power your device from the cable. Note that some devices count on this and will require a powered FireWire hub. Belkin sells them for about $100.

Steven Noyes
Ger Bee said:
As far as I know one size fits all.

If your device is a four pin to four pin for instance then a six
pin will do - the other pins are merely redundant.

If your device is a six pin and a four pin lead is used some
communication functions are lost or not made.
Click to expand...
 
Hi Shervin,
that seems not to be correct.
In Phil Askeys Review of the Firewire-Reader "Unity Digital"
the Reader is about THREE TIMES FASTER
than Notebook-PCMCIA!

Look at the review:
http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/unitydigitalfwreader/

Dont know if this is the case for all Notebooks

Juergen
Shervin Farivar said:
Jason,

The PCMCIA is faster than the Firewire, since the data does not
need to get translated. My experience has been that the PCMCIA
slot can usually run the Microdrive at its maximum speed, where as
the Firewire port slows down a bit. If your laptop has a PCMCIA
port, then use it!

Shervin
Click to expand...
 
You are correct. Laptops don't provide power to the firewire bus. You will need, either a powered hub or a power adapter for your firewire device. I've only seen one firewire reader, the same one I have, rebranded by a few companies. It requires bus power (6 pins) and I don't believe anyone sells it with the AC adapter so you will need a powered bus...starts to lose the portability factor of the laptop. You are better off getting a PCMCIA to CF2 adapter if your laptop will take one.

Danny
Jason Larson said:
stripes said:
I am fairly sure the extra two pins are to carry power. If the
Lexar card reader has it's own power supply a normal 4 pin to 6 pin
FW cable (which you can buy at MicroCenter, or many other places)
will work just fine. I'm not sure what to do if you need to supply
power though.

I have not used a FireWire card reader, but I beleve the PCMCIA
slot readers run the CF card as fast as they can go anyway, so even
though FireWire itself is faster the PCMCIA, in this case you don't
see the extra speed. However you need a double high PCMCIA slot to
handle a MicroDrive, and not all of the CF sleds fit the microdrive.

P.S. be sure you look at Apple's iBook and TiBook :-)
Click to expand...
I think the power might be the kicker. I am pretty sure the drive
is powered through the firewire connection.

I have the PCMCIA adapter that came with my microdrive, so that is
not a problem. I have read elsewhere that the throughput from
PCMCIA is about half of a firewire connection.

I've been a PC user from the beginning. Having said that, I've been
lusting after Ti Powerbook for a year, but I just can't justify the
cost of it, AND buying new Mac versions of all my software.
(Running Win 2k Pro now) A Mac would solve the connection problem
however, since they have a 6-pin Firewire jack.
--
Jason Larson
Shadowplay Photography
Gainesville, Florida
Canon D30 - Mamiya 645
Click to expand...
 
Member said:
You are correct. Laptops don't provide power to the firewire bus.
Click to expand...
Um, yes. Some surely do. All of Apple's laptops with built-in FireWire (that would be some models in 1999, and all from 2000 on) do provide power. They have six pins, and my bus powered FW device does run just fine off of it.
 
Hi Juergen,

One thing you will notice in the article is that the Firewire reader was hooked up to a dual processor machine; while the PCMCIA is in a laptop, at least that's what it seems like from the article! When you start transferring data to a computer, unless it's a cached controller, you will utilize the processor greatly. In a dual processor environment, your overhead is going to be reduced. because you have two processors to handle all kinds of tasks, where as on a laptop, you don't have the same horsepower, I bet the laptop wasn't even a 933. I think the data that on the site is very impressive, but he doesn't give us the specs for the PCMCIA computer. I have the lexar version of the FireWire reader, and it's fast and great for a desktop, but on a laptop, it's a different story.

Thanks,
Shervin
 
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