Vista nonsense....

Doctore said:

I am inclined to agree that Microsoft will not enforce this clause
for most enthusiasts

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I will give as much trust to a company as they're earned.

how much trust does MS rate?

do you sign contracts assuming the other party WILL be lenient on some of the terms? is that wise??

I rest my case

--
Bryan (pics only: http://www.flickr.com/photos/linux-works )
(pics and more: http://www.netstuff.org ) ~

The intent is clear, it is stated in the EULA, "You can MOVE it ONE time". If you want to install it on a third PC, even after taking it off all other PC's, you will have to BUY a NEW License.
Like I said anyone thinking otherwise is fooling themselves.

MS has had many chances to lighten up on the reactivation parameters for changing hardware in XP. There have been many updates before, including and after SP2 that MS could of changed this. They have not done so. When you think they will not enforce this new clause in the EULA you will be mistaken.

I agree .. MS re-activation is a simple hassle free process for me. Most recent case was migration to a new machine. I used the late lamented AlohaBob software for migrating programs. It move all the files and settings for Office 2003 except the activation protocol. A 6 minute call put me back in business with the only question being "am I using the program on another machine?"

The offshore customer rep (hello, Kip) rattled off 7 strings of 6 digits and I am on track. I cannot conceive how anyone considers that a hassle. Now dealing with the cable company, that's a hassle!!!
--
joel albert
[email protected]

I find it invasive, inconvenient and actually a nuissance. to consider the customer base guilty unless proven innocent is just wrong.

and you know what - it hasn't stopped piracy one bit. but it HAS inconvenienced users and sysadmins.

and the new model is a trainwreck waiting to happen. if/when there is a virus that gets underneath this activation stuff and causes entire companies (or worse) to go unfunctional - THEN maybe people will 'get it' that this whole 'phone home' activation stuff is just plain wrong.

I should not have to 'explain myself' to ANY company if I replace a broken part in my hardware. its just NONE of their damned business.

jralbert said:

I agree .. MS re-activation is a simple hassle free process for
me. Most recent case was migration to a new machine. I used the
late lamented AlohaBob software for migrating programs. It move
all the files and settings for Office 2003 except the activation
protocol. A 6 minute call put me back in business with the only
question being "am I using the program on another machine?"

The offshore customer rep (hello, Kip) rattled off 7 strings of 6
digits and I am on track. I cannot conceive how anyone considers
that a hassle. Now dealing with the cable company, that's a
hassle!!!
--
joel albert
[email protected]

Click to expand...

--
Bryan (pics only: http://www.flickr.com/photos/linux-works )
(pics and more: http://www.netstuff.org ) ~

Thanks Ed. We appreciate the SERIOUS warning.

Edward Chatlos said:

The intent is clear, it is stated in the EULA, "You can MOVE it ONE
time". If you want to install it on a third PC, even after taking
it off all other PC's, you will have to BUY a NEW License.
Like I said anyone thinking otherwise is fooling themselves.
MS has had many chances to lighten up on the reactivation
parameters for changing hardware in XP. There have been many
updates before, including and after SP2 that MS could of changed
this. They have not done so. When you think they will not enforce
this new clause in the EULA you will be mistaken.

Click to expand...

Wow! You shouldn't have to explain all this to us either.

Come on folks, let's go have a beer and shoot some pool. This lawyer stuff sucks.

linuxworks said:

and you know what - it hasn't stopped piracy one bit. but it HAS
inconvenienced users and sysadmins.

and the new model is a trainwreck waiting to happen. if/when there
is a virus that gets underneath this activation stuff and causes
entire companies (or worse) to go unfunctional - THEN maybe people
will 'get it' that this whole 'phone home' activation stuff is just
plain wrong.

I should not have to 'explain myself' to ANY company if I replace a
broken part in my hardware. its just NONE of their damned business.

jralbert said:

I agree .. MS re-activation is a simple hassle free process for
me. Most recent case was migration to a new machine. I used the
late lamented AlohaBob software for migrating programs. It move
all the files and settings for Office 2003 except the activation
protocol. A 6 minute call put me back in business with the only
question being "am I using the program on another machine?"

The offshore customer rep (hello, Kip) rattled off 7 strings of 6
digits and I am on track. I cannot conceive how anyone considers
that a hassle. Now dealing with the cable company, that's a
hassle!!!
--
joel albert
[email protected]

Click to expand...

--
Bryan (pics only: http://www.flickr.com/photos/linux-works )
(pics and more: http://www.netstuff.org ) ~

Click to expand...

A version of MSN messenger to work properly! Despite numerous updates etc...it still hangs sometimes, stops a pc shutting down sometimes...etc etc..

what hope is there for the ultimate OS if they cant get that right!

Oh and another moan....thanks for this one microsoft...damn hotmail cant be used anymore with outlook express, MS are phasing it out..so you cant read your hotmail email using outlook or express, unless you pay for it..(how dumb is that one?)...thanks a bunch ms...all I get now is people thinking their pc I made for them is dodgy because some goof ball wants to squeeze more cash from people..

Anyhow...thunderbird is far far better than outlook..and express....

Cynical about MS...can you blame me? lol
--

dlgehrt said:

Previous M$ OSes could be moved to different systems basically
without limit. With Vista the rule will be only one move then you
have to buy a new Vista license.

http://ct.news.com.com/clicks?t=15196964-829abe503bb102484f692cdb3ad9e331-bf&s=5&fs=0

I am thinking that it is making more sense all the time to start
using Linux and gimp or for Adobe to produce a Linux version of
Photoshop to release us from the slimy grip of M$. I am going tp
investgate gimp and what ever is available by way of raw converters
under Linux.

Cards on the table -- I used Linux (or UNIX) for the last 20 +
years of my working life. I only switched to M$ crummy excuse for
an OS when I took up photography because Gimp didn't seem close
enought to the applications available under XP.

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I've been using Linux exclusively for the past five years. For raw image conversion I use either Bibble or UFRaw (although I use UFRaw a lot more than Bibble simply because it's open source) and Gimp for editing. Take a look at my gallery and note that absolutely nothing was done on Windows (or Macintosh).

I also get very nice prints from an Epson R2400 using the Gutenprint drivers (also open source).

--
Whoever said 'a picture is worth a thousand words' was a cheapskate.

http://www.pbase.com/dot_borg

You just haven't got a clue.

A computer is cool. Anything anyone buys can be cool. Did you define cool before anyone else?

Going by your attitude, A BMW is a tool-just like your computer. It drives from one place to the next, just like any other car will. That is it's job. It may functionally do it better, but then so does OSX. So, you basically don't have a logical point here Scott.

And for your last point, Apple are far ahead of ANY other computer manufacturer in terms of hardware functionality and software development. It isn't only about what components you use, its about the technology they are deployed with which gives them a particular function. That is where Apple comes out on top.

BTW, they spent a decade proclaiming PowerPC was better than Intel because, at the time, it was. That doesn't change now just because Intel are the leader in processor design at the moment. Hell, at the time PowerPC was better than Intel (e.g. G5 vs P4), AMD, was even better than Intel. But look what happened to them. Oh well, nevermind.

David

Scott Eaton said:

Scott Eaton said:

Scott Eaton said:

Scott Eaton said:

Scott Eaton said:

Scott Eaton said:

but hey macs are cool.

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"Cool" is for geeks who's future tech job is already in India, and
think adding LED fans and overclocking is an important IT skill. A
BMW in my driveway is "cool", not a computer. A computer is a tool
to do a job and not sit on my desk taking up workspace.

If Apple wants to get my respect, they need to get out of 1980's
and cut with restricting OSX to only the computers they slap
together. Then again those guys spent a decade proclaiming Motorola
as superior to Intel anyways.

Click to expand...

--
Nikon D50 + 18 - 55mm, Fuijfilm F30, Epson R245, Canon CP400
iMac C2D 2.0Ghz, MacBook, Powerbook G4, iPod 5.5G 30GB.
http://www.davidjearly.com

I assume people have seen that the EULA has now been altered to allow multiple transfers?

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2006/11/03/ms_vista_climb-down/

haydnw said:

I assume people have seen that the EULA has now been altered to
allow multiple transfers?

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2006/11/03/ms_vista_climb-down/

Click to expand...

For once good news. THere was simply no point restricting and making life hard for legal users. MS should know that pirates dont buy a genuine version of windows..they download it and crack it etc...

Least in this case they have listened...esp important since vista may be around for 5 years (like XP), and during that time hardware wise pc's will have moved forward a lot...
--

haydnw said:

I assume people have seen that the EULA has now been altered to
allow multiple transfers?

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2006/11/03/ms_vista_climb-down/

Click to expand...

Well, that article was published on the 3rd, a week ago, and there seems to have been little awareness of it, at least here. So, it's probably safe to assume many haven't.

marcuson said:

haydnw said:

I assume people have seen that the EULA has now been altered to
allow multiple transfers?

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2006/11/03/ms_vista_climb-down/

Click to expand...

Well, that article was published on the 3rd, a week ago, and there
seems to have been little awareness of it, at least here. So, it's
probably safe to assume many haven't.

Click to expand...

Oh, and thanks for the link.

Glen Barrington said:

It may make sense for those who are constantly building/rebuilding
computers, but I think this is a non issue for most users.

Click to expand...

You're forgetting about the millions and millions of GAMERS out there who really use their systems to the max, and expect max performance. Most gamers I know re-install their systems monthly on average to keep them running smooth. If what I've heard is true - that Vista can only be installed twice on the same machine - then it will really put a kink into marketing to gamers.

My experience is that almost everything that can be done in Windows can be done in Linux. It's just not always done the same way. I know GiMP has a pretty good raw converter for linux - dcraw i think its called. GiMP is a much different interface though, which is what deters most people back to Photoshop and M$.

Stephen Schwartz said:

that most folks buy Windows as an OEM product, then this is idiocy.
Since Windows comes on most new PCs. how many oflks would ever want
to transfer ti to a new machine?

Sound like mS overkill to me.

Click to expand...

Yes, and the reason for that is explained in this story right here:

http://money.cnn.com/2006/11/01/magazines/business2/microsoft_vista.biz2/index.htm?postversion=2006110906

So manufacturers actually benefit from every windows install they do ... M$ are very sneaky indeed.

Indeed, that is the rub -- the hassle factor. Most people don't realize the effort that MS puts into insuring HW and SW compatability. Before anyone can put that WHQL sticker on the box that says "Designed for Windows XP" they have to pass a bunch of tests to verify that it really does work with Windows XP. I know this because my company spends a lot of tine on WHQL and it is always a big deal once something is qualified. I don't see anything like this with Linux -- you are on your own.

I don't ever see Linux closing this gap. With Linux, who do you work with to verify compatability and on what HW mix do you do your validation testing. As far as I know there is no validation and compatability assurence process for any of the varients of Linux.

A lot of us build machines, however for those people it has always been possible to get the OEM version of XP for significantly less money. For example, OEM at $130 vs. Retail at $300. My guess is that this will not change (prices may be higher but the home brewers will be able to get the SW). I have always considered the OS to be just another component of the computer just like the CPU or the HDD. You have to buy a CPU, you havde to buy a HDD and you have to buy an OS. At $130 US, XP is not out of line IMO.

For most people, I agree, this is a non issue. They buy a new machine and pass the old one to the kids or a niece / nephew or use it as a spare. The number of people who dismantle a machine and recycle the parts is pretty small I would guess. After a year or two, many of the components of a given machine are obsolete.

--
Mac

no text

My limited understanding is that Vista can only be installed on a different machine one time ( ie one transfer of the license ). Now, the key question is what constitutes a different machine ( does a new video card make it different, etc ). Still, it's an irritant for many, a non issue for others.

Adobe irritates me for similar reasons.. I have a licensed full verison of Pshop 4.. I've bought most of the upgrades since. When I was building my new PC this summmer, I had to first install Pshop 4, then upgrade it to Pshop 7 before I could load my Pshop CS upgrade ( cant go from 4 to CS directly ). I"m not going to buy a new license every 4-5 years at $600USD and it's semi insane to have to go through this stuff. But, it doens't happen often and thus I can live with it

The VISTA impact will be known in time.. XP's activation at first sounded horrible and for me it's never been an issue.. change motherboard, reactivate, no problem. Hopefully, VISTA will be semi reaosnable in allowing power users to upgrade major components without needing to buy a new license. If not, it will certianly be a downer and a semi stupid blunder. Whne we start protecting against piracy to the point thos ewho have bought the product legally suffer, it will only serve ot encourage hackers to hack. Has to be a balance ( cas ein point.. with all the extra music copy protection schemes in place, music sales have DROPPED.. so much for the thoery that the pirating hurt sales! )
--
Please forgive the typos! A great speller I am, a great typist I am not!