400D underexposing, Screen badly calibrated or lousy photographer

Everyone should put their Monitor in their Equipment Profile.

It would help us in our responces even more so that what camera equipment they use.
Mitsu2070SB 22" here.

graviT
in my opinion - everything is comes to the monitor. 400d picture
looks a bit underexposed on good crt monitor and looks normal on
overbrighted cheap lcd...
 
I have a Belinea 20.1" inch widescreen TFT colour calibrated using spyder colorvision.
graviT
in my opinion - everything is comes to the monitor. 400d picture
looks a bit underexposed on good crt monitor and looks normal on
overbrighted cheap lcd...
--

Canon 400D + 18-55 Kit Lens + 50mm f/1.8 + 2x 4GB Sandisk Ultra II Compactflash Card
Canon A620 + 2x 1GB Sandisk SD Card
Olympus C350Z (No longer used)
 
If you want to see all the destroyed detail in the dark by the 400D
you could take the same photo with 300D and then lift the 400Ds
under back up to the 300D and look at the noisy blackness.
Sample??
I know you just have to apply 2/3 ec but you lose 2/3shutter
compared to 350D to get the same exposure.
Why does everyone love this under exposure all of a sudden?
It's nothing new. When highlights are really blown they can never be restored. It's much easier to salvage shadows. Users have been using this method for as long as I've been around the forums.
The new user like the op get concerned when every picture they take
is dark.
Then it's up to them to read about Exposure Compensation. Someone else mentioned this in this thread.

Specifically: This scene was overly bright due to the bright skies. The camera will meter to medium grey. IOW, it assumes that the image must be medium grey so it will underexpose the scene. It's the same principal (but not as strong) as with beach and snowy scenes. If you don't add +EC, your scene will be underexposed.
I reply to the op to help him, these other replies are to keep the
thread up so that canon will make firmware instead of not telling
us we might need to add 2/3 ec.
A simple matter of photography knowledge.

http://shortcourses.com/using/exposure/chapter3.htm

Olga
 
i have 17' Mitsub 750SB at home and NEC 73VM at work. First one is just perfect, when second is a piece of ship. I have spend hours trying to adjust it with no success. The picture is too bright with huge lack of colors...
graviT
in my opinion - everything is comes to the monitor. 400d picture
looks a bit underexposed on good crt monitor and looks normal on
overbrighted cheap lcd...
 
Ohhh geez..... I dont know how to respond to this.......

I have watched and tested every camera to come down the pipes for the last 6 years. Highend P&S and DSLR.
All your lessons are good for others here though.
I understand all of this.
Thank you for the short course but ive understood all of this for years now.
Its so common knowledge that lifting dark will increase noise.

It was me that mentioned to the op to use exposure compensation. He is concerned that he got a bad one.

The 400D is much less sensitive than the 350D and also under exposes where the 350 tended to slightly over expose.
There is alot of confusion now for newer folks.

I just said, the 400D under exposed, nothing wrong with your camera, you can add ec to fix.

If you shoot the same scene with the same exposure, the 400D is going to be 2/3 to 1stop slower shutter compared to 350D. Losing shutter is no fun.

I was going to buy the 400D until i tested 3 of them in 2 different stores with the same results.

graviT
If you want to see all the destroyed detail in the dark by the 400D
you could take the same photo with 300D and then lift the 400Ds
under back up to the 300D and look at the noisy blackness.
Sample??
I know you just have to apply 2/3 ec but you lose 2/3shutter
compared to 350D to get the same exposure.
Why does everyone love this under exposure all of a sudden?
It's nothing new. When highlights are really blown they can never
be restored. It's much easier to salvage shadows. Users have been
using this method for as long as I've been around the forums.
The new user like the op get concerned when every picture they take
is dark.
Then it's up to them to read about Exposure Compensation. Someone
else mentioned this in this thread.

Specifically: This scene was overly bright due to the bright skies.
The camera will meter to medium grey. IOW, it assumes that the
image must be medium grey so it will underexpose the scene. It's
the same principal (but not as strong) as with beach and snowy
scenes. If you don't add +EC, your scene will be underexposed.
I reply to the op to help him, these other replies are to keep the
thread up so that canon will make firmware instead of not telling
us we might need to add 2/3 ec.
A simple matter of photography knowledge.

http://shortcourses.com/using/exposure/chapter3.htm

Olga
 
DSLR are many times not as good as PnS if you want to print or display the images without post processing. Truth is though that the Ixus photo has blown highlights. You've lost a lot of detail in the highlights. I guarantee you that with minimal post processing (i.e. shadows/highlights in PS) your 400D photo is the better photo. If you want to do absolutely no PP, a PnS may be the better solution.

Here is the Ixus histogram; clearly clipped highlights



Here is the 400D histogram; highlights preserved


Hello all

I need some advice from people who have more experince than I.

Here are 2 photos taken one with a 400D/XTi and the other one with
an canon Ixus.

I have the impression that the photo taken from the 400D is
underexposed where the one taken with the Ixus seems brighter. The
dark details do appear.

Can anyone advice me about it ?

$00d configuration :
Sigma 18-50 lense, no sun shield, no UV filter (yet), no polariser
Exp time : 1/200
F9
Metering matrix
White balance auto
P mode

http://www.flickr.com/photos/44868141@N00/289229132/

Ixus config :
Full auto
Exp time 1/250
F7.1
Metering matrix
White balance auto

http://www.flickr.com/photos/44868141@N00/289229140/

Thank you very much

an almost happy 400d user

Alex
--
Galleries: http://www.pbase.com/jon_b
 
Seems clear to me that the 400D is properly exposed to preserve both hightlights and darks.

The Ixus example is frankly not very good at all.
Hello all

I need some advice from people who have more experince than I.

Here are 2 photos taken one with a 400D/XTi and the other one with
an canon Ixus.

I have the impression that the photo taken from the 400D is
underexposed where the one taken with the Ixus seems brighter. The
dark details do appear.

Can anyone advice me about it ?

$00d configuration :
Sigma 18-50 lense, no sun shield, no UV filter (yet), no polariser
Exp time : 1/200
F9
Metering matrix
White balance auto
P mode

http://www.flickr.com/photos/44868141@N00/289229132/

Ixus config :
Full auto
Exp time 1/250
F7.1
Metering matrix
White balance auto

http://www.flickr.com/photos/44868141@N00/289229140/

Thank you very much

an almost happy 400d user

Alex
 
The histograms said it all....

Besided that I immediatly found the 400D picture more pleasant to look at.

RW
 
the 400D histogram shows extreme aggressive highlight preservation to me, the ixus a slight over exposure.

graviT
Here is the Ixus histogram; clearly clipped highlights



Here is the 400D histogram; highlights preserved


Hello all

I need some advice from people who have more experince than I.

Here are 2 photos taken one with a 400D/XTi and the other one with
an canon Ixus.

I have the impression that the photo taken from the 400D is
underexposed where the one taken with the Ixus seems brighter. The
dark details do appear.

Can anyone advice me about it ?

$00d configuration :
Sigma 18-50 lense, no sun shield, no UV filter (yet), no polariser
Exp time : 1/200
F9
Metering matrix
White balance auto
P mode

http://www.flickr.com/photos/44868141@N00/289229132/

Ixus config :
Full auto
Exp time 1/250
F7.1
Metering matrix
White balance auto

http://www.flickr.com/photos/44868141@N00/289229140/

Thank you very much

an almost happy 400d user

Alex
--
Galleries: http://www.pbase.com/jon_b
 
the 400D histogram shows extreme aggressive highlight preservation
to me, the ixus a slight over exposure.
Give it up. No one cares about the overall image. They just care that all "highlights were preserved".

The photo could be completely underexposed with "preserved highlights" that make up less than 5% of the photo and that would be considered "correct exposure" on these forums.

"Conservative exposure" works very well with people who PP, but it hurts those who like bright images right out of the box. The 350d (at default settings) and it's tendency to sometimes blow highlights is a much better camera for people who want a DSLR that takes photos just like the p&s with little or no PP. The 400d (at default settings) is a better camera for those who are willing to spend time post processing.
 
Re> Is my camera not good, or should I learn to shoot better photos ?

Camera metering systems use different technology in different cameras.

I have no idea how the point and shoot metering works, but in the 400D, you have a choice of three metering systems.

One divides the whole frame into segments, and then electronics compares all the segments and chooses the exposure.

Another system measures the whole frame, but pays more attention to the center part of the frame, whille taking the outer edges into account.

And the third just pays attention to the center part.

If you have a tripod, try this experiment. And if you do not have a tripod, use a couple of books under the camera to hold it in the same spot.

Point it at a scene like this, with a lot of shade, a bright sky, and lots of mid-tome sunlit areas, too. Point the camera and zoom the lens so that the center on the frame (say the middle third, from side to side) is pointed at the shadow.

Now, Change the metering system to each of the three choices, and write down the numbers that show up on the back of your camera.

Note the wide range.

Now, turn the camera bit so that the center is now pointed at a mid-toned wall in the sunlight, and repeat the three-systems test.

Notice how these numbers are different from the first set.

Third experiment.

Leaving the camera pointed in the same direction, set one exposure metering system, and zoom the lens from widest to most telephoto, making notes of the exposure numbers at widest, middle, and narrowest. Repeat with the two other metering systems.

Again, lots of variety in exposure.

AND FINALLY... shape the fingers on your hand into a little tunnel, and look at the scene through the little tunnel, moving your hand around. Note how when you look into the shaded area under the bridge it looks brighter through the finger-tunnel than it does without the finer-tunnel.

There's no "right" exposure for a scene like this. It's up to the photographer to decide how important it is to see under the bridge, how important it is for the sky to be bright, how important it is for the brick and stone walls to be light or dark.

So Canon (and all the camera makers) give you several choices in metering systems, provide M for manual so you can change the settings from what any of the three metering systems suggest, build in exposure compensation features to alter what the meter says, and have contrast adjustments inside the camera (in the Parameters section) to allow more adjustments.

And there's automatic bracketing, at the photographer's choice of various changes from shot to shot.

And you don't have to use the camera's meter. You can go buy two different types of handheld exposure meter. One measures reflected light, which your camera's meter does, too, but many handheld reflected light meters have a spot meter feature adding even more exposure control.

In your Notre Dame picture, a spot meter would have told you, from the other side of the river, what exposure to use for a good exposure under the bridge.

And the other kind of handheld meter measures the light hitting the subject, not reflecting off it, meaning the color and reflectivity of the subject does not matter.

And that's just in the camera. More is possible with software.

Oh, and you can add a polarizer or various other filters to change the relationships between darkness, lightness, and various colors.

So, it is not the camera.

When in doubt, the Evaluative system, measuring the whole frame, is usually the best for newcomers.

I use center-weighted myself almost all the time, but I've been taking pictures forever.

BAK
 
Hello JohnAugust,

Give it up would be nice but then you see some poor guy get trampled by all the "400D is perfect and you are wrong" folks...over and over again.
Its all fine and well for 5D and up folks, but this is a Rebel, for the masses.

All this talk about "oh you just shoot raw and post process with Photoshop(which costs 300$ if you pay for it) and at least the camera was smart enough to not clip that one little white rock at the far left of the image.

Who cares if the 400D is 2/3 stops slower shutter speeds than the 350D, ill just go up another ISO stop.

I PP all my keepers and i know when to use ec+ - but why does everyone defend the 400D so much.

It under exposes and gives slower shutter speeds than the camera before it to the extent that folks think their camera is broken.

I just got 5000 photos from different car races in a couple countries like the F1 race in Suzuka, with my 300D so im still out there loving it, I would have liked to get the 400D but wont now.

the 30D is almost 2 times the cost of the Rebel depending which country you are in so it is a big step to get it.

graviT
the 400D histogram shows extreme aggressive highlight preservation
to me, the ixus a slight over exposure.
Give it up. No one cares about the overall image. They just care
that all "highlights were preserved".

The photo could be completely underexposed with "preserved
highlights" that make up less than 5% of the photo and that would
be considered "correct exposure" on these forums.

"Conservative exposure" works very well with people who PP, but it
hurts those who like bright images right out of the box. The 350d
(at default settings) and it's tendency to sometimes blow
highlights is a much better camera for people who want a DSLR that
takes photos just like the p&s with little or no PP. The 400d (at
default settings) is a better camera for those who are willing to
spend time post processing.
 
Hello BAK,
Awesome response.
I could picture in my head the results, perfectly descripted post.

nice work.

graviT
Re> Is my camera not good, or should I learn to shoot better photos ?

Camera metering systems use different technology in different cameras.

I have no idea how the point and shoot metering works, but in the
400D, you have a choice of three metering systems.

One divides the whole frame into segments, and then electronics
compares all the segments and chooses the exposure.

Another system measures the whole frame, but pays more attention to
the center part of the frame, whille taking the outer edges into
account.

And the third just pays attention to the center part.

If you have a tripod, try this experiment. And if you do not have a
tripod, use a couple of books under the camera to hold it in the
same spot.

Point it at a scene like this, with a lot of shade, a bright sky,
and lots of mid-tome sunlit areas, too. Point the camera and zoom
the lens so that the center on the frame (say the middle third,
from side to side) is pointed at the shadow.

Now, Change the metering system to each of the three choices, and
write down the numbers that show up on the back of your camera.

Note the wide range.

Now, turn the camera bit so that the center is now pointed at a
mid-toned wall in the sunlight, and repeat the three-systems test.

Notice how these numbers are different from the first set.

Third experiment.

Leaving the camera pointed in the same direction, set one exposure
metering system, and zoom the lens from widest to most telephoto,
making notes of the exposure numbers at widest, middle, and
narrowest. Repeat with the two other metering systems.

Again, lots of variety in exposure.

AND FINALLY... shape the fingers on your hand into a little tunnel,
and look at the scene through the little tunnel, moving your hand
around. Note how when you look into the shaded area under the
bridge it looks brighter through the finger-tunnel than it does
without the finer-tunnel.

There's no "right" exposure for a scene like this. It's up to the
photographer to decide how important it is to see under the bridge,
how important it is for the sky to be bright, how important it is
for the brick and stone walls to be light or dark.

So Canon (and all the camera makers) give you several choices in
metering systems, provide M for manual so you can change the
settings from what any of the three metering systems suggest, build
in exposure compensation features to alter what the meter says, and
have contrast adjustments inside the camera (in the Parameters
section) to allow more adjustments.

And there's automatic bracketing, at the photographer's choice of
various changes from shot to shot.

And you don't have to use the camera's meter. You can go buy two
different types of handheld exposure meter. One measures reflected
light, which your camera's meter does, too, but many handheld
reflected light meters have a spot meter feature adding even more
exposure control.

In your Notre Dame picture, a spot meter would have told you, from
the other side of the river, what exposure to use for a good
exposure under the bridge.

And the other kind of handheld meter measures the light hitting the
subject, not reflecting off it, meaning the color and reflectivity
of the subject does not matter.

And that's just in the camera. More is possible with software.

Oh, and you can add a polarizer or various other filters to change
the relationships between darkness, lightness, and various colors.

So, it is not the camera.

When in doubt, the Evaluative system, measuring the whole frame, is
usually the best for newcomers.

I use center-weighted myself almost all the time, but I've been
taking pictures forever.

BAK
 
All this talk about "oh you just shoot raw and post process with
Photoshop(which costs 300$ if you pay for it) and at least the
camera was smart enough to not clip that one little white rock at
the far left of the image.
The 400D example shot in the OP looks fine. No need for anything like Photoshop or PP at all.

It's the Ixus shot that's badly in need of some post processing help.
 
Hello jrynash,

Im just wondering what monitor do you have? are we seeing something totally different?

The 400D is underexposed but not horrendously in this example, the Ixus might just barely have clipped a few stones but there is nothing blown in it.

400D looks a bit better because of the silky smooth big sensor and darker image is easier on the eyes. Also because its so dark, the only thing you can see is the Church which just luckily happens to be the main subject. Its not better exposed though. The ixus didnt clip any clouds or blow the whole scene.
The 400D is darker than the ixus is bright.

graviT
All this talk about "oh you just shoot raw and post process with
Photoshop(which costs 300$ if you pay for it) and at least the
camera was smart enough to not clip that one little white rock at
the far left of the image.
The 400D example shot in the OP looks fine. No need for anything
like Photoshop or PP at all.

It's the Ixus shot that's badly in need of some post processing help.
 
The Ixus shot has shadows far too overexposed and the sunlit faces of the cathedral and buildings are far too bright. Under the bridge in the 400d is dark, but correctly dark. Under the bridge in the Ixus shot is unaturally exposed and distracts the eye from the subject/s of the shot.

What's the color of the cathedral stone? Which shot betters displays the details and color of the buildings?

The 400D shot is clearly superior in exposure, color and detail.
graviT
All this talk about "oh you just shoot raw and post process with
Photoshop(which costs 300$ if you pay for it) and at least the
camera was smart enough to not clip that one little white rock at
the far left of the image.
The 400D example shot in the OP looks fine. No need for anything
like Photoshop or PP at all.

It's the Ixus shot that's badly in need of some post processing help.
--
http://www.pbase.com/pespen
--
Canon Digital Rebel XT and XTi (Silver and Black),Canon 10-22mm lens,Canon
50mm 1.8 mkII
lens,Canon 35mm 2.0 lens,Canon 17-55mm f/2.8 IS lens,Canon 70-200mm F/4L
lens,Canon 580EX
Flash,Lowepro
Micro Trekker 200 backpack
 
Hello jrynash,
Im just wondering what monitor do you have? are we seeing something
totally different?
The 400D is underexposed but not horrendously in this example,
No, not underexposed.
the
Ixus might just barely have clipped a few stones but there is
nothing blown in it.
The highlights are blown-- clipped = blown. This is the best possible scenario for blown highlights, though-- the stones are surrounded by darker mortice, so one could easily overlook the blown highlights. In that sense it is the best-case scenario for an assertion like yours, that blown highlights are okay. If it were the white shirt of the main subject that the P & S had blown, no one could agree with you.
400D looks a bit better because of the silky smooth big sensor and
darker image is easier on the eyes. Also because its so dark, the
only thing you can see is the Church which just luckily happens to
be the main subject. Its not better exposed though.
Yes, it is. The highlights are not blown.
The ixus didnt
clip any clouds or blow the whole scene.
You're correct-- the IXUS did not shoot a white frame. That's what it means to blow the whole scene.
The 400D is darker than the ixus is bright.
This statement doesn't make sense.
 
How does reading the manual help for the original query? And BTW which manual? IXUS or 400D?

Your response is senseless without any backing thought or consideration for help.

At the least, it DOES NOT help

--
PicPocket
 
How does reading the manual help for the original query? And BTW
which manual? IXUS or 400D?
400D, obviously. The OP doesn't have a problem operating the IXUS.
Your response is senseless without any backing thought or
consideration for help.
Wrong, dope. It is advice the OP needs to follow. He or she should read and comprehend the manual before posting inaccurate information about a misbehaving camera, and asking questions that could have been answered by reading sections of the manual.
At the least, it DOES NOT help
It DOES. If the OP follows this advice in the future, he or she will learn without the need for concern, cluttering up a message board, etc. If the OP had taken the time to learn the camera's correct use and then had a question, the situation would be different.

If someone posts "What is bokeh?" I refer them to a search engine. In you opinion this is doubtless cruel, ill-thought, etc. etc. etc. Your position is wrong.
 

Keyboard shortcuts

Back
Top