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Curiousity Poll: How many people here have sold their SD10 and brought a Canon 5D?

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Sharp,

Have you asked this on the Canon forum? If anyone did do this, they'd now be more likely to be on the Canon forum than the Sigma one.
 
SNIP
mgates said:
Did you keep your Sigma lenses? Would you buy the whole system
again? More people would try Sigma if the system wasn't so
expensive after recapture. A 10MP C or N is cheaper to buy and
own. Sigma could fix most of that with a better mount.
Click to expand...
This has been the subject of many threads. There is nothing wrong with a Sigma mount per se, it is so close to a Canon mount it is almost a clone.

I have both a SD10 and a 1d2. What I did was buy two Sigma 1.4 TCs (one EF and one SA) and switch the rear plates. Now I can use all of my SA lens on my Canon and all of my EF lens on my Sigma. The contacts are identical so for the most part AF/AE works just fine, but some lens do require taping.
 
mgates said:
IQ was better than it was given credit. All 10MP dSLRs look like
slides at 3MP. SD10 ISO 100 IQ was first for the price.
Click to expand...
Have you ever actually looked closely at images around 3 MP size from SD10 and from 10 MP Bayer DSLRs next to each other? Sounds like not, as you have no idea what is meant by people saying the SD10 images "look like slides".

So here's a new POLL:

How many can see what is meant by SD10 photos looking like slides, compared to (full or downsized) 10 MP Bayer images?

j
 
Just Looking wrote:
SNIP>
Just Looking said:
So here's a new POLL:

How many can see what is meant by SD10 photos looking like slides,
compared to (full or downsized) 10 MP Bayer images?
Click to expand...
Well I only have an eight mp 1d2, and have not looked at a lot of 10 mp images except for some of the Nikon ones posted here, and most folks seem to think that the compairson should not be done with downsized images, but some think images should be upsized so both images are identical.

To my eye macro is where Sigma images seem to show the most detail. Here are two links to original images, both created with the same Sigma 150 macro. One was created using a Canon 1d2 body and a modified Sigma 1.4 TC allowing me to mount a SA lens on a Canon body. The other was created using a Sigma SD10 and a Sigma 1.4 TC. I have two Sigma EF500 Super flash uints and both images were shot manual and TTL.

You can cheat and look at the EXIF if you want or just guess which image is from which hardware. I am sure the correct answer will be posted somewhere so I suggest you click on the links and test yourself first if you dont want the suprise spoiled.

http://www.pbase.com/tommy2guns/image/68104658/original

http://www.pbase.com/tommy2guns/image/69666373/original
 
Well the images opened up at completely different sizes (the CFA image wasn't downsized to match) and the subjects are quite different. So that isn't much of a test.

I do find it intersting that I can't recall anyone doing a double blind test on SD10/CFA images where care is taken to have the cameras create virtually identical images. Such a test might actually settle some of the disagreements - though I wouldn't count on it.

--
Jay Turberville
http://www.jayandwanda.com
 
mgates said:
IQ was better than it was given credit. All 10MP dSLRs look like
slides at 3MP. SD10 ISO 100 IQ was first for the price.
Click to expand...
I Disagree.
mgates said:
Did you keep your Sigma lenses? Would you buy the whole system
again? More people would try Sigma if the system wasn't so
expensive after recapture. A 10MP C or N is cheaper to buy and
own. Sigma could fix most of that with a better mount.
Click to expand...
Sigma are no more expensive than canon or nikon, in fact their lenses are generally cheaper, however I only had the two kit lenses which sold with the camera.

I like the foveon chip, it has some problems with noise but at 100ISO its the cleanest I have seen and has the richest colours.

Canon win hands down at high iso which I found priceless when shooting a large model aircraft show with my Bigma, handheld at 1000ISO. Unfortunately the SD10 wouldn't have given the results in a situation like that.

If the SD14 handles well and from what I've seen of some sample images the noise issue is getting better so there is a future for it, just hope they keep on going.

I'm not into brand loyalty, it's about image quality and handling, and of course if you've invested all your money in one brand then you'd be a bit daft to suddenly switch without a bl* dy good reason.

Just my opinions, I think there's some great gear out there which in most part can all produce great images it just needs a creative mind in control.

--
Cheers

Mart. :o)
 
Hi Jay,

Those were just two images I had on my pbase site that may have just reenforced my preexisting ideas about the quality of the two sensors.

Your points are well taken and I would like to you to review my ideas for a new test and see if you have any suggestions to improve it.

Normally when I get a new lens I take a picture of a dollar bill and examine the IQ of that image. From your previous post it seems like you are suggesting using that as a subject would be an improvement. I guess I should place the dollar bill at different distances for the test so the same image appears in the FOV. You also seem to suggest I should upsize the Sigma image so it is the same size as the Canon image. There is also the possibility of downsizing the Canon image.

How would you conduct such a test?
 
Jay Turberville said:
I do find it intersting that I can't recall anyone doing a double
blind test on SD10/CFA images where care is taken to have the
cameras create virtually identical images.
Click to expand...
I did a "single blind" test between SD9, 300D, and D7i images several years ago with 8.5 x11 prints. I had real-world images taken at the same time with similar lenses and settings from a fall color trip. Among the people I showed the prints to, there were no strong preferences. Someone picked the print from each camera as the "best". This was not a truly scientific comparison - the sample size was not very large (about 10 people).

There are just too many variables: lenses, lighting, shooting technique, processing technique, printing etc. along with variations in taste among observers (are they more sensitive to differences in color? noise? sharpness? detail?).
Jay Turberville said:
Such a test might actually settle some of the disagreements
  • though I wouldn't count on it.
Click to expand...
In 4 years, nothing has been shown to "settle some of the disagreements".

--
Erik
 
mf_blues said:
mgates said:
More people would try Sigma if the system wasn't so
expensive after recapture.
Click to expand...
Sigma are no more expensive than canon or nikon,
Click to expand...
I think the point is because of supply and demand, the resale value of SA mount lenses is lower than even exact same Sigma lens in Canon or Nikon mount.

For example, a 100-300 APO EX SA mount lens sold recently on ebay for $310. A Nikon mount version sold for $611. Both were described to in in excellent condition by sellers with respectable feedback. While it's hard to generalize on e-bay pricing, this trend has been noted before. So, if you try an SD9/10 and several lenses and decide that you don't like it, you will be likely to recover less of the initial purchase price.

--
Erik
 
Tom Rowland said:
Normally when I get a new lens I take a picture of a dollar bill
and examine the IQ of that image. From your previous post it seems
like you are suggesting using that as a subject would be an
improvement.
Click to expand...
Maybe an improvement, but when comparing sensors, I think that paper currency is too much like a resolution chart - mostly dark print on light paper.
Tom Rowland said:
I guess I should place the dollar bill at different
distances for the test so the same image appears in the FOV. You
also seem to suggest I should upsize the Sigma image so it is the
same size as the Canon image. There is also the possibility of
downsizing the Canon image.
Click to expand...
I don't know what the best method is. I lean toward downsizing the CFA image though. But it might be better to include both methods.

Rather than use the bill, I'd take a number of pictures of different subjects and then try to see which was best. It was easier to do my test because I could reasonably just use crops and because the nature of the comparison gave me virtually identical images. In the case of an SD10 vs. CFA, that would be harder to pull of because sharp viewers might be able to key off of key characteristics rather than image quality. It was one of the things that always confounded comparisons between LPs and CDs. The LPs always had more noise so the comparison was never blind
Tom Rowland said:
How would you conduct such a test?
Click to expand...
Ideally it would be a test of prints. But online, I'd use 100% crops in side-by-side comparisons like I did for my comparison of the E-300 at 5Mp and at 8Mp.

Those images can be found here and are labeled setXcrop.jpg The participant sample size ended up at 14 and most people had a hard time telling the difference. But there are differences and two people were able to identify the images 100% correctly. This little test pretty well confirms that an 8Mp E-300 image is at least 3Mp larger than it needs to be to contain essentially the same detail.

http://www.jayandwanda.com/dpreview/sq2/

--
Jay Turberville
http://www.jayandwanda.com
 
i sold my SD10 and switched to 5D,
now about to sell the 5D and switch to SD14 if its colors improve.
I just cannot get colors right on the SD10, the pinkish red is troublesome.

regarding Canon 5D, its jpeg mode sucks, it is soft and not sharp, only raw mode works better.
sharpvision said:
I was just enquiring someone who was selling their SD10 and what
camera they got now and they said they brought a Canon 5D.

I am just curious how many other people have gone this route.

Sharp.
Click to expand...
 
mf_blues said:
mgates said:
IQ was better than it was given credit. All 10MP dSLRs look like
slides at 3MP. SD10 ISO 100 IQ was first for the price.
Click to expand...
I Disagree.
mf_blues said:
Did you keep your Sigma lenses? Would you buy the whole system
again? More people would try Sigma if the system wasn't so
expensive after recapture. A 10MP C or N is cheaper to buy and
own. Sigma could fix most of that with a better mount.
Click to expand...
Sigma are no more expensive than canon or nikon, in fact their
lenses are generally cheaper, however I only had the two kit lenses
which sold with the camera.
Click to expand...
Cost of ownership is different than price. Sigma cost of ownership means buying an entire system in addition to the body. Then selling all of that at a greater percentage loss.
mf_blues said:
I like the foveon chip, it has some problems with noise but at
100ISO its the cleanest I have seen and has the richest colours.

Canon win hands down at high iso which I found priceless when
shooting a large model aircraft show with my Bigma, handheld at
1000ISO. Unfortunately the SD10 wouldn't have given the results in
a situation like that.

If the SD14 handles well and from what I've seen of some sample
images the noise issue is getting better so there is a future for
it, just hope they keep on going.

I'm not into brand loyalty, it's about image quality and handling,
and of course if you've invested all your money in one brand then
you'd be a bit daft to suddenly switch without a bl* dy good reason.
Click to expand...
Thanks to Sigma SA there is an issue of brand loyalty.
mf_blues said:
Just my opinions, I think there's some great gear out there which
in most part can all produce great images it just needs a creative
mind in control.
Click to expand...
That is why they should use an established mount. Most creative minds have no access.
 
Erik Magnuson said:
mf_blues said:
mgates said:
More people would try Sigma if the system wasn't so
expensive after recapture.
Click to expand...
Sigma are no more expensive than canon or nikon,
Click to expand...
I think the point is because of supply and demand, the resale value
of SA mount lenses is lower than even exact same Sigma lens in
Canon or Nikon mount.
Click to expand...
Yes. And the need to buy everything not just a body. Sigma forces you to buy more and lose more on every item. And haul double. Why do they think professionals don't haul both C and N systems? Doubling systems is never going to happen. Never.
Member said:
For example, a 100-300 APO EX SA mount lens sold recently on ebay
for $310. A Nikon mount version sold for $611. Both were described
to in in excellent condition by sellers with respectable feedback.
While it's hard to generalize on e-bay pricing, this trend has been
noted before. So, if you try an SD9/10 and several lenses and
decide that you don't like it, you will be likely to recover less
of the initial purchase price.
Click to expand...
Sigma system cost is too high. I could add a 1Ds body for less than an SD14. Plus I usually get cash rebates that lower my bottom line.
 
mgates wrote:
Why
mgates said:
do they think professionals don't haul both C and N systems?
Doubling systems is never going to happen. Never.
Click to expand...
Gee I know pros who have different systems, take along what's applicable for the job at hand.
mgates said:
Sigma system cost is too high. I could add a 1Ds body for less
than an SD14. Plus I usually get cash rebates that lower my bottom
line.
Click to expand...
Seriously mgates, if you don't like the Sigma system, why hang out here and post obsessively?
Best regards, Sandy
[email protected]
http://www.pbase.com/sandyfleischman
 
Still have my 5D and missed out on a sd9 by 17 pence.

Then some Romanian scammer tried to convince me the sale had fallen through and it was mine if I just sent him the money and all my personal info...

Bought a D50 instead and had it converted to lifepixel IR - neat.

But it does mean I won't be joining your club afterall, sadly.
sharpvision said:
I was just enquiring someone who was selling their SD10 and what
camera they got now and they said they brought a Canon 5D.

I am just curious how many other people have gone this route.

Sharp.
Click to expand...
--
Galleries and website: http://www.whisperingcat.co.uk/mainindex.htm
 
This thread reminds me of the the two mothers watching their sons march in a parade - One mother says " look my Johnny is the only one marching in time ".

A good photographer can take a beautiful image with any of the 6 or 7 systems now available. I'm very interested in the new sigmas but more in the dp1 because I wouldn't need to be tempted to invest in two systems , and I'm in the market for a small camera. I own a canon and would guess that other than IQ and ISO , the biggest difference in canon would be it's speed. It seems most good sigma images I've seen have been setups. That's where it shines . Whether it's macro or landscape or studio. If I ran a studio , or was a landscapist , I'd definitely want a sigma in arsenal. And that's true also for the 5D. However I think if you shoot mostly street photos , where speed is the essential quality , 'cause if you're slow you miss the worm , then it's hard to beat a 20/30d with a good L lens - even over a 5d . And another factor in street shooting must be cost. Because if you shoot in any other part of the world other than the US/Canada, wEurope ,Japan , or Australia, then when you're with your equipment , you're vulnerable to theft. I just wished canon would come out with a 18-200 IS. And I hope the dp1 is fast , faster than a canon g7 , for example, although I might buy both.
 
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