Reading mode: Light Dark

Normal for Nikon?

Go to last post
B

Brad Waldera

Veteran Member
Messages
5,697
Reaction score
0
Location
US
I could be way off base and completely wrong, but I had a question come to mind.

I bought my D50 369 days ago, and was not really a regular on this site before that time. I did come here from time to time looking through posts to get information, before deciding to buy my D50.

I didn't notice it at that time, but lately it seems that Nikon is pushing a lot of cameras in a fairly short period of time. I see post after post from people mentioning numerous problems with the D80, and I remember BGLOD and the D200 banding issue. This isn't about cameras having issues, but rather the reasoning behind it. I was wondering if Nikon has been releasing cameras this frequently all along, or if maybe it's more of a recent trend that could be the cause of some of these issues. Are they trying to get products on the market too soon, resulting in errors being made and such?

As i mentioned, I've only been a regular to this forum for a year, and I most assuredly could be wrong. I just was curious to find out if Nikon usually put out products at this rate, or if they only recently have been. Thanks in advance.



--



Wanting my work to stand out because of my Photography skills, NOT because of my Computer skills.

http://www.betterphoto.com/gallery/free/gallery.asp?memberID=162336

http://www.dotphoto.com/go.asp?l=ddiver537&AID=3843065&Pres=Y

Song of the week- By The Way- Red Hot Chili Peppers
 
It's really not that many cameras in a short time. If you just look at the D-SLR line, the releases are as follows:
D1 - Oct 99
D1x - May 2001
D1H - Jul 01
D100 - Jun 02
D2H - Nov 03
D70 - Mar 04
D2X - Jan 05
D2Hs - Mar 05
D70s - Apr 05
D50 - Jun 05
D200 - Dec 05
D2Xs - Jul 06
D80 - Sep 06
D40 - Dec 06?

If anything, the pace has slowed down this year from 2005, when they released five cameras. (These are mostly availability dates, not release dates.)

Unlike the world of film cameras, which moved slowly and the technology didn't change much over time, digital cameras are more like computers and I don't think it's going to be unusual to eventually see replacement models every six months or so. You need to think of it as "continuous improvement". A new sensor comes out or a better LCD and you switch the assembly line to use those new parts, slap a different nameplate on the camera, print a different user's guide and you have a new camera. It doesn't necessarily mean that it's going to degrade quality.

I would take people who post online with problems with a grain of salt. Problems seem to get greatly exaggerated in these online forums. There's a whole range of shooters who never actually shoot anything real - they take pictures of brick walls and light bulbs and become obsessed about stuck pixels that no one else can perceive.

Nikon has had trouble keeping items in stock, but a retailer told me one of the reasons for that is because they are trying to keep the quality up, so they're purposely shipping fewer cameras then they'd like in order to make sure they work, so it's actually just the opposite of what you implied in your post.
 
Thanks Zoet. That explains a lot. As I mentioned, I really had nothing to go by, as I've only been here a year. I guess they are not flooding the market by any means. As far as the people posting here about problems, I do think that they make up the minority, but there seemed to be numerous issues with Nikon's latest release. I've seen people posting here about issues such as hot pixels, overexposure, shutter lock, and even a few complaining about not being able to close the little port door. I just wondered if the cause of any of those problems had anything to do with Nikon trying to rush the product to the marketplace. Obviously it does not. Thanks again.
--



Wanting my work to stand out because of my Photography skills, NOT because of my Computer skills.

http://www.betterphoto.com/gallery/free/gallery.asp?memberID=162336

http://www.dotphoto.com/go.asp?l=ddiver537&AID=3843065&Pres=Y

Song of the week- By The Way- Red Hot Chili Peppers
 
As another ardent D50 fan, I thought this might interest you.

I too have noticed all the so called problems and concerns with the D80 and I realized that no one was talking about D50 problems - old or new. So I went into the old DPReview threads back to the D50 release date and found threads of excitment and questions about it and what lens to get etc. but NONE about problems or defeiciences and certainly none of the discord the D80 had upon its release and the hot pixel talk etc since then.

Now there are a lot of threads but I was looking at May '05 to July '05 and then some after that. No problems then and none now. Its like I keep waitng for our D50 to pop up with some flaw like the D70 had with the "you know what" (just can't say it - it might jinx thngs) but nothing.

We indeed have an excellent camera and are very forutnate to be as trouble free as we are.
gk
--
'I'm not as smart today as I will be tomorrow.'
 
Hi Brad,

The pace is very fast right now as DSLRs are still pretty new and there is lots of room for improvement and production cost reduction. I expect them to hit a plateau of what can be done with image quality and then slow down to the pace of film cameras before digital.

Morris

--



http://qcpages.qc.cuny.edu/~morris/POD
 
Brad,

Nikon is definitely releasing more cameras than they were back in, say, 00-01, but that's partially because they're expanding their product lineup. Whereas they previously only had three models (D1x, D1h, D100), now we've got a full consumer-to-pro tier to deal with, and each refresh is staggered a bit so it seems like there's always something happening every 4-6 months. Including the "S" refreshes, I think it's safe to say we'll see new replacement models every 12-18 months or so.
 
garyking said:
We indeed have an excellent camera and are very forutnate to be as
trouble free as we are.
gk
--
Click to expand...
I have often thought the same thing as you while reading all the posts about BGLOD, banding, etc...

I am extremely happy with my D50 and have no intentions of upgrading any time soon.
Scott

--
http://scottr.smugmug.com/

'See profile for gear so as to not confuse search engine'
 
Brad Waldera said:
I bought my D50 369 days ago, and was not really a regular on this
site before that time. I did come here from time to time looking
Click to expand...
I'm more concerned that you are able to accurately recall how many days you have owned your camera........

I'm lucky if I can remember where I put my D50 last time I had it out!!

My guess is that digital technology is going through more of a growth spurt than film has gone through in a long, long time.
 
I bought it two days before Halloween last year, so it was easy to figure the number of days out. I may even be a day or two off. I've got close to 19,000 shutter releases on my D50, and as I've said many times on this site, when it breaks I'll go in and get another one. I simply don't need a single feature the D50 doesn't have.

I can print 20"x30" prints with 6 megapixels, I have perfect vision so I don't need a larger viewfinder or LCD, I don't want the ability to shoot in B&W because I can do that in PP, I don't need a backlit LCD as the Aperture and Shutter info is in the viewfinder, and I don't mind taking the extra 2 seconds to change settings in the menus instead of using the control wheel. Some people want those features, but I do not.

I'm glad to see others are happy with their D50's too, but the intention of my post wasn't to bash another camera, but rather just to inquire into a possible reason behind some of the flaws that seem to be popping up on some models. I've heard of some D50's having trouble too, but not too many. The D70s, D80, and D200 are all great cameras with more features than the D50. That's just a fact, but not everybody requires those features though either.

Have a great day everybody.



--



Wanting my work to stand out because of my Photography skills, NOT because of my Computer skills.

http://www.betterphoto.com/gallery/free/gallery.asp?memberID=162336

http://www.dotphoto.com/go.asp?l=ddiver537&AID=3843065&Pres=Y

Song of the week- By The Way- Red Hot Chili Peppers
 
This is just a classic photo Brad. I know you posted it before but it one that grows on you and gets better each time you see it.
gk
--
'I'm not as smart today as I will be tomorrow.'
 
Brad Waldera said:
Are they trying to get products
on the market too soon, resulting in errors being made and such?
Click to expand...
If you want my opinion, yes, they are. The following Nikon DSLRs have had what I would call significant release issues: D1x (menu reset), D2h (metering), D70 (BGLOD), D200 (banding). Some might add a few other bodies to that list, most notably the D2x (focusing).

The problem isn't design, I think. It's testing. All of the issues that have come up so far should have been caught in testing, IMHO. Many are specifically manufacturing QA/QC issues. To some degree, that's to be expected. Release cycles are shorter now than they were in the film days. And so is production volume--Nikon is producing far more DSLR bodies out the starting gate than they did in the film era.

But Nikon isn't alone in this. Every camera maker is having the same problem. Part of it is our own fault, as we're not very patient in waiting for the Next Great Thing. But I also think Nikon needs to broaden their initial testing to include more users, tighten their QA for parts being used the first-time, and to tighten their initial production QC.

--
Thom Hogan
author, Nikon Field Guide & Nikon Flash Guide
editor, Nikon DSLR Report
author, Complete Guides: D50, D70, D100, D200, D1 series, D2h, D2x, S2 Pro
http://www.bythom.com
 
I think it is to remain competitive on the low end/consumer market. Nikon has lost the pro market a while back and there is no way for it to regain it I think. They need to get most profits from the consumer market. So they need to push out fresh consumer products to stay on top of stiff competition.

D70 in my opinion was a failure for Nikon because mere-mortal/BestBuy people hated it. It had image quality issues and high rate of breakdown. I by the way have 2 of them myself, but I work on my photos instead of just point and clicking. BestBuy stores in my area were littered with open-box/returned D70 kits. It did however get Nikon sufficient leverage to get into the low-end market after they lost the high-end market to Canon. In that respect, D70 was a success.

I think Nikon's goal should be to reduce the thought process a photographer needs to go through when he or she clicks the shutter. Ultimately we want a DSLR camera that doesn't require us to flip through menus or controls to get things done. We want excellent exposure and white balance straight out of the box the first time without thinking about them. We want to compose and shoot. We want a camera that "just works and satisfies". With the D50 and the D80 we see an improvement in that direction, plus those cameras also give us manual control when we want it. D80 might be just that camera (I don't have it so I don't know).

Fuji S3 was a good step in the direction of a camera that "just works". Having one myself, it has spartan minimalist controls. I almost never use the menu. I just point and shoot without thinking about WB and exposure too much - and the picture just "magically" comes out pretty much as I want it. All I basically set is the image optimization to either simulate slide film, or behave normally. S3 gives me a sense of confidence I did't have about the D70. With S3 I know that I can shoot JPG and not worry too much about postprocessing. D70 required a bit more fiddling around to get images I wanted.

It seems that Canon has also been like that also starting with it's Digic II based cameras (XT and up). The new point and shoot Canons also offer amazing colors, that others should be benchmarked against in my opinion.

We will see what the D40 will bring. It might just be a camera for Nikon to bring on the ultimate in "magic" and automation to it's line. I would certainly like a camera like that. I only want to worry about aperture and shutter speed when shooting, nothing else really.

Kind Regards,
Przemek
Brad Waldera said:
I could be way off base and completely wrong, but I had a question
come to mind.

I bought my D50 369 days ago, and was not really a regular on this
site before that time. I did come here from time to time looking
through posts to get information, before deciding to buy my D50.

I didn't notice it at that time, but lately it seems that Nikon is
pushing a lot of cameras in a fairly short period of time. I see
post after post from people mentioning numerous problems with the
D80, and I remember BGLOD and the D200 banding issue. This isn't
about cameras having issues, but rather the reasoning behind it. I
was wondering if Nikon has been releasing cameras this frequently
all along, or if maybe it's more of a recent trend that could be
the cause of some of these issues. Are they trying to get products
on the market too soon, resulting in errors being made and such?

As i mentioned, I've only been a regular to this forum for a year,
and I most assuredly could be wrong. I just was curious to find out
if Nikon usually put out products at this rate, or if they only
recently have been. Thanks in advance.



--



Wanting my work to stand out because of my Photography skills, NOT
because of my Computer skills.

http://www.betterphoto.com/gallery/free/gallery.asp?memberID=162336

http://www.dotphoto.com/go.asp?l=ddiver537&AID=3843065&Pres=Y

Song of the week- By The Way- Red Hot Chili Peppers
Click to expand...
 
I seem to remember the "word on the street/forums" when the D50 was announced was mostly moaning and groaning that the D100 hadn t been improved and that Nikon was putting out a cheap, plasticky consumer camera with a shockingly small "tunnel" viewfinder only ONE imput dial and no light in the LCD and that it wasn t worthy of their Nikon lenses ! Why were Nikon designers making "worse/crippled" cameras ?

I think all the very happy owners might disagree a few years down the line...The pics on here speak for them selves. It s very capable.
So D40 nay sayers beware !

Also I ve seen on here about the advantage in the D80 s viewfinder not being needed if you have perfect eyesight . It s not really that, it s having a bigger "canvas" to work within. it s nicer to see the bigger brighter image I think it aids composition and as I spend a lot of my life looking thru viewfinders I want the biggest I can get.....It is your main interface with the camera it s a make or break for me.

If there were no advantage why do the higher end models have the biggest brightest viewfinders ?
Cos it helps .

http://www.flickr.com/photos/nickevans9/
 
I realise I left off the "punchline" the D50 ironically seems to have
less teething probs than a lot of the others yet opened to rather inauspicious
and low expectation launch.
It definitely seems to have the most "contented" owners !

Tho I love my D80 even if it is lacking in hot pixels ! I still think it s a great piece of kit.
I can t fault it.

Would like a screw in remote and poss bigger status LCD but they re minor niggles.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/nickevans9/
 
like a user said:
I realise I left off the "punchline" the D50 ironically seems to
have
less teething probs than a lot of the others yet opened to rather
inauspicious
and low expectation launch.
Click to expand...
Actually, the D50 had very little that was new and the D70 issues were very well known by the time the D50 went into production. Basically, the number of new things to test were low: 420-pixel matrix and SD circuitry, basically. That to me seems to argue to my point (likewise, the D70s was a very smooth intro, as were the D2hs and D2xs--all low design change cameras). It's been the "pioneer" bodies that have encountered problems.

--
Thom Hogan
author, Nikon Field Guide & Nikon Flash Guide
editor, Nikon DSLR Report
author, Complete Guides: D50, D70, D100, D200, D1 series, D2h, D2x, S2 Pro
http://www.bythom.com
 
instamatic said:
I think Nikon's goal should be to reduce the thought process a
photographer needs to go through when he or she clicks the shutter.
Click to expand...
I would disagree. Indeed, one of the things that "made" Nikon was that they produced cameras that could be controlled thoroughly by photographers. A great photograph happens one of two ways: (1) absolute serendipity (the "no brainer"), or (2) hundreds of careful decisions made correctly (the "full brainer"). What photographers need is a camera that doesn't get in the way of the decisionmaking.

Indeed, that's one of the things that makes Nikon users loyal to Nikon and keeps them from switching even faster to Canons. You shouldn't, for example, have to take your eye from the viewfinder to make any important decision (that includes ISO, which is why it should be a viewfinder visible value). Nikon's design has long been button-and-dial: hold the right button, twirl the right dial, and while still looking through the viewfinder you can make your setting. There's a very subtle consistency to the way this is handled on the Nikon bodies, right down to the direction the dials go and the rings on the lenses go. On the pro cameras, that applies to most everything you'd set from shot to shot (aperture, shutter speed, exposure mode, metering method, ISO, white balance, image quality, etc.). On the consumer cameras, they tend to remove some of that (how much you want to bet that things like metering method, bracketing, etc., are ALL menu-driven in the D40?).
instamatic said:
Ultimately we want a DSLR camera that doesn't require us to flip
through menus or controls to get things done.
Click to expand...
I'd phrase it differently. My old partner Alan Cooper wrote an entire UI design book on the idea of "immediacy" of control. Basically, you should be able to directly manipulate things, not indirectly manipulate them or have to navigate a hierarchy to manipulate them. Give me one button, the Direction pad, and the back LCD and I can give you a "novice" UI that does just that without menus and would be much better than what Nikon is doing. The Samsung X/Y unlabeled button interface is kind of interesting in that respect, too, but I don't like that many buttons myself--too many possible failure points, and one of which brings the whole thing down.
instamatic said:
We want excellent
exposure and white balance straight out of the box the first time
without thinking about them.
Click to expand...
Again I'd phrase it differently. We want the ability to directly and quickly override camera-made decisions. Camera decisions just simply aren't going to be the right decision 100% of the time. I'm perfectly happy with a camera that gets it right 80% of the time and gives me immediate and direct control to fix the 20%, whatever the problem might be.
instamatic said:
We want to compose and shoot. We
want a camera that "just works and satisfies".
Click to expand...
There certainly is a class of users who wants the Magic Camera. Whether it has to be "right" 95 or 99 or 99.9% of the time is arguable. But historically, that's not been Nikon's forte, and it's not the right current or future strength of the brand, IMHO.
instamatic said:
Fuji S3 was a good step in the direction of a camera that "just
works". Having one myself, it has spartan minimalist controls.
Click to expand...
Actually, the button/LCD bar on the Fujifilm DSLRs is close to the kind of direct override I'm talking about, and I've always liked that on the S3.
instamatic said:
I just point and shoot without thinking
about WB and exposure too much - and the picture just "magically"
comes out pretty much as I want it.
Click to expand...
Exposure, maybe, but the S3 isn't the greatest at auto white balance in my experience. And it has far too limited ability to control what it does when it's wrong.
instamatic said:
It seems that Canon has also been like that also starting with it's
Digic II based cameras (XT and up). The new point and shoot Canons
also offer amazing colors, that others should be benchmarked
against in my opinion.
Click to expand...
It's funny people keep saying that. In my experience, the D50/D80 keep color saturation into the high ISO values that the Canon consumer models quickly lose. The test numbers I get substantiate that.

Finally, one last comment: if all the camera makers pursue and attain low end DSLRs that just "get it right," what then distinguishes them from one another? Price, basically. What happens is similar to what we have currently at Best Buy in the digicam section: a dozen me-too cameras that all compete on marketing and price for the most part. That's a brutal business, and not at all ultimately a high-quality business. I personally would hate to see Nikon become a lowest common denominator producer. They already backed away from distinctive Coolpixes, are DSLRs next?

--
Thom Hogan
author, Nikon Field Guide & Nikon Flash Guide
editor, Nikon DSLR Report
author, Complete Guides: D50, D70, D100, D200, D1 series, D2h, D2x, S2 Pro
http://www.bythom.com
 
I don't remember too many complaints about it that were really "defects".
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Keyboard shortcuts

f
Forum
m
My threads
Mobile site
About
Editorial content
Cameras & Lenses
Community
All content, design, and layout are Copyright © 1998–2025 Digital Photography Review All Rights Reserved.
Reproduction in whole or part in any form or medium without specific written permission is prohibited.
When you use DPReview links to buy products, the site may earn a commission.
©GPS Media - Guides, Products, Services.
Back
Top