Professionals who offer to help Sigma and Foveon engineer non-photographers figure out why the camera is failing is not a bad thing. Some professionals are open to a Foveon sensor. Most are not based on existing problems. There are few things stopping Sigma and Foveon from working.
1. Most Sigma users don't understand other cameras. This is important. You seem to have convinced yourselves that Sigma is doing well. It is clear from these noise discussions that most of you have no clue what other cameras are doing. It sounds like a put down but it isn't intendend that way. You have no choice. Sigma uses an SA mount. That is one reason why their mount is a bad decision. Most Sigma users don't use the better cameras.
Users who don't understand other systems give Sigma wrong feedback. Sigma tries to listen. They continue to release dSLRs farther and farther off the mark. The SD14 is the result.
2. No C/N mount. A few good lenses but no great lenses. The very small real pixel pitch of the SD10 (5.3 microns) and SD14 (4.5 microns) equals high ISO 100 resolution. That means great lenses are required. The small pitch also means relatively poor noise characteristics. Fast lenses that remain sharp are crtical but not available. The SD14 cannot reach its potential in a Sigma mount.
Rick. f/2.8 and faster is critical. You think it is useless because Sigma dSLRs are useless in low light. Profitable photographers live a f/2.8 and wider. f/2.8 is fairly stopped down. Frankly. Ls and some non-Ls are very sharp at f/2.8 and need to get faster.
Professionals cannot afford to buy outside of their mount. Even if some might they would not add SA.
3. Very high noise. SD10 high ISO images are unusable from a professional persepective. Ergo the camera is unusable. The ISO 1600 house samples posted by Laurence Matson are were taken in broad daylight. IQ is a mess. They show extreme shadow noise. Unruly hue shifts. Poor sharpness. Dead color. Even ISO 200 is noisy. Professionals buying in volume need a camera that can take a great picture in very low light. Sigma cameras cannot. Specifications and samples suggest the smaller pixel pitch of the SD14 will result in the same or worse noise.
What? You say? No one says the SD10 is extremely noisy. Most tell us it is "ok". Well. We are being nice.
4. Lighting is more important than lenses. Consumers and amatures don't understand why. So it only makes it to reason #4. Sigma SA is incompatible with professional lighting systems. Until Sigma is compatible with C or N lighting it is a dead system.
5. Sigma. I think people were open to them succeeding. They missed their opportunity. The SD14 is less competitive than was the SD9. With that Sigma's opportunity to be a smart camera Brand is gone.
So what can be done? The answer is nothing until Sigma seeks competent advice. Even if they admit they are failing and change course it will take a long time. Sigma's course of action is this.
1. Forget about sensor IQ. No one who matters cares. A few amateurs think film is the most important part of a body. IQ has to be good but it still doesn't matter because the market is flooded with awsome quality. Better than you have at the moment. Forget your users misguided notion that film can build your Brand. Look where that got Kodak and Fuji. Build a body that would sell if everyone still used film.
For Foveon. Since you are stuck in the film business. Not a place I'd want to be.
1. Stop!
2. Seek a competent professional photographer's advice before proceding. Find ten wedding photographers who charge in the $10,000/event range and are booked for a minimum of three years. Above that price range is not a group open to you. Ask them what they need and want from film and sensors. Not all professionals shoot weddings but they are a good test for a film company like you. The direction you are headed is all wrong.
3. Here is the main thing you need to learn about digital IQ. Efficiency and effectiveness are not the same. IQ efficiency is meaningless to photographers. IQ effectiveness is everything. You need to produce a sensor that is effective even if at the direct expense of efficiency. That is why Bayer sensors are killing you.
The next two are not sensor design related.
4. Your greatest strength is faster workflow per quality. Not basic IQ. All digital professionals understand that processing time is the most expensive part of their business. It is by far the largest challenge of any digital system. You hold the key to great success but you don't see it.
5. Get out from under Sigma glass.
1. Most Sigma users don't understand other cameras. This is important. You seem to have convinced yourselves that Sigma is doing well. It is clear from these noise discussions that most of you have no clue what other cameras are doing. It sounds like a put down but it isn't intendend that way. You have no choice. Sigma uses an SA mount. That is one reason why their mount is a bad decision. Most Sigma users don't use the better cameras.
Users who don't understand other systems give Sigma wrong feedback. Sigma tries to listen. They continue to release dSLRs farther and farther off the mark. The SD14 is the result.
2. No C/N mount. A few good lenses but no great lenses. The very small real pixel pitch of the SD10 (5.3 microns) and SD14 (4.5 microns) equals high ISO 100 resolution. That means great lenses are required. The small pitch also means relatively poor noise characteristics. Fast lenses that remain sharp are crtical but not available. The SD14 cannot reach its potential in a Sigma mount.
Rick. f/2.8 and faster is critical. You think it is useless because Sigma dSLRs are useless in low light. Profitable photographers live a f/2.8 and wider. f/2.8 is fairly stopped down. Frankly. Ls and some non-Ls are very sharp at f/2.8 and need to get faster.
Professionals cannot afford to buy outside of their mount. Even if some might they would not add SA.
3. Very high noise. SD10 high ISO images are unusable from a professional persepective. Ergo the camera is unusable. The ISO 1600 house samples posted by Laurence Matson are were taken in broad daylight. IQ is a mess. They show extreme shadow noise. Unruly hue shifts. Poor sharpness. Dead color. Even ISO 200 is noisy. Professionals buying in volume need a camera that can take a great picture in very low light. Sigma cameras cannot. Specifications and samples suggest the smaller pixel pitch of the SD14 will result in the same or worse noise.
What? You say? No one says the SD10 is extremely noisy. Most tell us it is "ok". Well. We are being nice.
4. Lighting is more important than lenses. Consumers and amatures don't understand why. So it only makes it to reason #4. Sigma SA is incompatible with professional lighting systems. Until Sigma is compatible with C or N lighting it is a dead system.
5. Sigma. I think people were open to them succeeding. They missed their opportunity. The SD14 is less competitive than was the SD9. With that Sigma's opportunity to be a smart camera Brand is gone.
So what can be done? The answer is nothing until Sigma seeks competent advice. Even if they admit they are failing and change course it will take a long time. Sigma's course of action is this.
1. Forget about sensor IQ. No one who matters cares. A few amateurs think film is the most important part of a body. IQ has to be good but it still doesn't matter because the market is flooded with awsome quality. Better than you have at the moment. Forget your users misguided notion that film can build your Brand. Look where that got Kodak and Fuji. Build a body that would sell if everyone still used film.
For Foveon. Since you are stuck in the film business. Not a place I'd want to be.
1. Stop!
2. Seek a competent professional photographer's advice before proceding. Find ten wedding photographers who charge in the $10,000/event range and are booked for a minimum of three years. Above that price range is not a group open to you. Ask them what they need and want from film and sensors. Not all professionals shoot weddings but they are a good test for a film company like you. The direction you are headed is all wrong.
3. Here is the main thing you need to learn about digital IQ. Efficiency and effectiveness are not the same. IQ efficiency is meaningless to photographers. IQ effectiveness is everything. You need to produce a sensor that is effective even if at the direct expense of efficiency. That is why Bayer sensors are killing you.
The next two are not sensor design related.
4. Your greatest strength is faster workflow per quality. Not basic IQ. All digital professionals understand that processing time is the most expensive part of their business. It is by far the largest challenge of any digital system. You hold the key to great success but you don't see it.
5. Get out from under Sigma glass.
