What's the feeling about Panasonic/Leica??

Panasonic now? Hey, it's digital photography, why not. With panasonic electronics and Leica optics and experience, it seems to me like a sure bet.

It's a great looking camera and the lens makes the CP5000 shown below it look like a contact lens. By their press release, it sounds like they are boasting a new standard in DP (salt shaker anyone ;o).

Anyone with opinions or insight. Personally, I can't wait to see one in "early spring 2002"
Brent.

Pity about SD rather than CFII compatability.

Personally I'm more excited about the new M7 ... but that won't be digital.

brent said:

Panasonic now? Hey, it's digital photography, why not. With
panasonic electronics and Leica optics and experience, it seems to
me like a sure bet.
It's a great looking camera and the lens makes the CP5000 shown
below it look like a contact lens. By their press release, it
sounds like they are boasting a new standard in DP (salt shaker
anyone ;o).
Anyone with opinions or insight. Personally, I can't wait to see
one in "early spring 2002"
Brent.

Click to expand...

I want to like it, but I really don't like the results on the sample page:

http://www.panasonic.co.jp/products/dc/sample/index.html

I've seen these before a month or so ago, and I really don't like the way the camera has delt with sking tones. Look at the picture of the girls. Ability to handle contrast seems poor - all the girls faces have blown out areas. The blown out areas seem more purple - the skin tone is lost.

Overall saturation appears to be low. Now Phil's news article has come out it seem that the use of a CMY filter may be the reason for these strange colours, and possibly a smaller colour gamut (the Kodak CMY filter cameras had lower gamut).

The picture is also soft.

Nice idea, don't like the SD format, don't like the picture quality.

Andrew Booth said:

I've seen these before a month or so ago, and I really don't like
the way the camera has delt with sking tones. Look at the picture
of the girls. Ability to handle contrast seems poor - all the girls
faces have blown out areas. The blown out areas seem more purple -
the skin tone is lost.

Overall saturation appears to be low. Now Phil's news article has
come out it seem that the use of a CMY filter may be the reason for
these strange colours, and possibly a smaller colour gamut (the
Kodak CMY filter cameras had lower gamut).

The picture is also soft.

Nice idea, don't like the SD format, don't like the picture quality.

Click to expand...

Andrew,

You might take another look. I printed "the girls" out on a Canon S800 at 8X10 size and got good skin tones,over all color and sharpness. I have also printed some of the other people pictures and find good skin tones. Some of the samples had a white balance problem easily fixed.

--Bob Ross

I have a Leica Minilux Zoom point & shooter, it generates excellent pictures. I can't imagine Leica will screw up its reputation in the ever growing digital market.

However, to copy the success of Sony/Zeiss combination, there are lots of works need to be done by Panasonic side in images storaging/converting and firmware/software supporting.
--Daniel ChinA Light TravellerTaichung, Taiwan http://imageevent.com/danielchin

But making lenses for digital things is also very different from making them for film cameras. You must provide high resolution, in phase with the sensors you have. And the CCD does not move from its plane as film sometimes does. They are not more or less difficult: they are a different job, that's it. So the holy name of Leica still has to be proved in this field.
Fabio
(Leica lens user since 1973)

Fabio Amodeo said:

But making lenses for digital things is also very different from
making them for film cameras. You must provide high resolution, in
phase with the sensors you have. And the CCD does not move from its
plane as film sometimes does. They are not more or less difficult:
they are a different job, that's it. So the holy name of Leica
still has to be proved in this field.
Fabio

Click to expand...

I couldn't resist putting my 2 cents in here.

I have taken a number of pictures with the LUMIX, here in an Osaka photo store (email me if you would like to see some of them) with very intense flourescent lighting and the results were amazingly good.

I have not bought the camera yet, but am thinking very seriously about it. Please print out the full-sized pictures from Panasonic's site - the results should be very good. (Mine are all taken at lower resolution, so they may not look as good.)

The Summicron lens is excellent and very bright. It is obvious a LOT of light is getting to the CCD. Then, Panasonic's color compensation filter seems to do a very good job of removing glare, without doing any damage. One thing you notice very quickly is the very wide range of subtle color gradations. Of course, this is the first try for Panasonic and there will be some people who will feel that the slow zoom speed, or the awkward manual focus ring will prevent them from considering it. But IMHO it really is a step in the right direction for the future of digital cameras.(fast focus, data recording speed, data processing speed, superb lens, etc.)

Last, I was also put off by the tiny SD card, but the more I work with it, the more I like it. It is sooo fast and allows me to not even think about pausing between shots. Maybe more importantly, the prices for them here in Japan is quickly falling and is now almost the same as standard CF cards. I know many people (including myself) have a physical and emotional investment in their trusty CF Cards, but these SD cards are really a step in the right direction.

The LUMIX was also recently used for a demonstration article in a popular Japanese digital camera magazine - outdoors with a model. I'm wondering if I scanned a few of the pictures, it would show people the points I've been talking about? (Scanning novice here - any help/advice is appreciated)
--Mr. Osaka

Fabio said:

But making lenses for digital things is also very different from
making them for film cameras. You must provide high resolution, in
phase with the sensors you have. And the CCD does not move from its
plane as film sometimes does. They are not more or less difficult:
they are a different job, that's it. So the holy name of Leica
still has to be proved in this field.
Fabio
(Leica lens user since 1973)

Click to expand...

Jeffrey again. I've just put the LUMIX pictures on Panasonic's album site, at:

http://home1.picturestage.com/servlet/com.arcsoft.UtilMain?com=arcsoftUtil&jobtype=zeditstorage&c2simple_next=editmanage.html&page=0

ps this is the first time I've ever put pictures on-line. If they aren't accessable, let me know and I'll send them directly to you. Cheers.--Mr. Osaka

Jeffrey,

I agree with you that the LUMIX has a lot of potential: fast lens, fast processing speed, etc. Each brand's image have a different "flavor" depending on the software processing the images captured by the CCD. Fuji is said to have the best skin tone and color rendition; Olympus is towards the "cold" side; Nikon is allegedly having the most true-to-color images; and Canon has a balanced color scheme.

In time, if the LUMIX line is sucessful, hopefully we will have some evolution in image processing (or allow some more flexibililty for user's post processing manipulation). The fast lens and processing speed already put the LUMIX ahead of much of it's competitors.

Harry

Jeffrey Knapp said:

Fabio said:

But making lenses for digital things is also very different from
making them for film cameras. You must provide high resolution, in
phase with the sensors you have. And the CCD does not move from its
plane as film sometimes does. They are not more or less difficult:
they are a different job, that's it. So the holy name of Leica
still has to be proved in this field.
Fabio
(Leica lens user since 1973)

Click to expand...

Jeffrey again. I've just put the LUMIX pictures on Panasonic's
album site, at:

http://home1.picturestage.com/servlet/com.arcsoft.UtilMain?com=arcsoftUtil&jobtype=zeditstorage&c2simple_next=editmanage.html&page=0
ps this is the first time I've ever put pictures on-line. If they
aren't accessable, let me know and I'll send them directly to you.
Cheers.
--
Mr. Osaka

Click to expand...

--Harry

Jeffrey Knapp said:

The LUMIX was also recently used for a demonstration article in a
popular Japanese digital camera magazine - outdoors with a model.
I'm wondering if I scanned a few of the pictures, it would show
people the points I've been talking about? (Scanning novice here -
any help/advice is appreciated)

--
Mr. Osaka

Click to expand...

I have found the site you said. Besides the LUMIX, there are
sample pictures taken from EOS 1D and Olympus E20. LUMIX
is unbeatable within this price range, I'm very impressed.

LEICA DMC-LC5
http://home.impress.co.jp/magazine/digitalcamera/01_12/lc5/index.htm

EOS 1D
http://home.impress.co.jp/magazine/digitalcamera/01_12/eos1d/index.htm

Olympus E20
http://home.impress.co.jp/magazine/digitalcamera/01_12/e-20/index.htm
--fotoman

It seems like the images have been touched up in phoroshop. It is possible that the camera is processing the images to look this way. These are nice images and the lens seems sharp.

The 'girls' appear to have a magenta cast on the skin tones.
The 'purple flower' looks like it has been sharpened slightly.
The blue sky in the first shot looks like the noise has been removed.
The 'tree' shot has the sky blown out.

I would rate this a good shapshot camera, but not on a level approaching D-SLRs. I probably was not designed to, though. I have a Sony and while the images are sharp, I don't like the "processed" look about them.

I'm waiting for the PMA announcements before deciding on my next digicam.

harry said:

I agree with you that the LUMIX has a lot of potential: fast lens,
fast processing speed, etc. Each brand's image have a different
"flavor" depending on the software processing the images captured
by the CCD. Fuji is said to have the best skin tone and color
rendition; Olympus is towards the "cold" side; Nikon is allegedly
having the most true-to-color images; and Canon has a balanced
color scheme.

In time, if the LUMIX line is sucessful, hopefully we will have
some evolution in image processing (or allow some more flexibililty
for user's post processing manipulation). The fast lens and
processing speed already put the LUMIX ahead of much of it's
competitors.

Harry

Jeffrey Knapp said:

Fabio said:

But making lenses for digital things is also very different from
making them for film cameras. You must provide high resolution, in
phase with the sensors you have. And the CCD does not move from its
plane as film sometimes does. They are not more or less difficult:
they are a different job, that's it. So the holy name of Leica
still has to be proved in this field.
Fabio
(Leica lens user since 1973)

Click to expand...

Jeffrey again. I've just put the LUMIX pictures on Panasonic's
album site, at:

http://home1.picturestage.com/servlet/com.arcsoft.UtilMain?com=arcsoftUtil&jobtype=zeditstorage&c2simple_next=editmanage.html&page=0
ps this is the first time I've ever put pictures on-line. If they
aren't accessable, let me know and I'll send them directly to you.
Cheers.
--
Mr. Osaka

Click to expand...

--
Harry

Click to expand...

Victor Vivaudou said:

It seems like the images have been touched up in phoroshop. It is
possible that the camera is processing the images to look this way.
These are nice images and the lens seems sharp.

Click to expand...

I understand your reluctance to compare the LUMIX to a D-SLR and I wouldn't either. CCD size, lack of RAW format, etc. tell me too that this camera is most likely designed for point-and-shoot folks. Perhaps the speed improvements will help to convert more 35mm point and shooters to digital. As I see more and more pictures, the Leica lens seems to really make a difference.

Also, I finally figured out how picturestage.com works and to see the (unretouched) LUMIX pics that I took in the store, enter my email address for the login and then type "lumix" for the password.

Last, completely by accident my friend here at work met a guy who has a LUMIX and works (surprise, surprise) for Panasonic in their digital video dev. group. He'll be coming out to take pics with us soon and hopefully we can put up some outdoor comparison shots (w/cp950,canon Powershot G1,sony F505). I'll let you know when we do.--Mr. Osaka

brent said:

Panasonic now? Hey, it's digital photography, why not. With
panasonic electronics and Leica optics and experience, it seems to
me like a sure bet.
It's a great looking camera and the lens makes the CP5000 shown
below it look like a contact lens. By their press release, it
sounds like they are boasting a new standard in DP (salt shaker
anyone ;o).
Anyone with opinions or insight. Personally, I can't wait to see
one in "early spring 2002"
Brent.

Click to expand...

I am not too sure it is good. It is like mating bill clinton with hilliary rodham and you get a chelsea... well you can dress it up but can you take it home to mother...

Jeffrey Knapp said:

Victor Vivaudou said:

It seems like the images have been touched up in phoroshop. It is
possible that the camera is processing the images to look this way.
These are nice images and the lens seems sharp.

Click to expand...

I understand your reluctance to compare the LUMIX to a D-SLR and I
wouldn't either. CCD size, lack of RAW format, etc. tell me too
that this camera is most likely designed for point-and-shoot folks.
Perhaps the speed improvements will help to convert more 35mm point
and shooters to digital. As I see more and more pictures, the Leica
lens seems to really make a difference.
Also, I finally figured out how picturestage.com works and to see
the (unretouched) LUMIX pics that I took in the store, enter my
email address for the login and then type "lumix" for the password.
Last, completely by accident my friend here at work met a guy who
has a LUMIX and works (surprise, surprise) for Panasonic in their
digital video dev. group. He'll be coming out to take pics with us
soon and hopefully we can put up some outdoor comparison shots
(w/cp950,canon Powershot G1,sony F505). I'll let you know when we
do.
--
Mr. Osaka

Click to expand...

The Leica lens is probably the biggest selling point. It may bring the die-hard rangefinder fans to the digital realm. Zeiss gave alot of credibility to Sony. Leica should do the same for Panasonic.

If the LUMIX produces images like the G2 and allow the optical subtleties of the lens to be noticed, it will be the standard other cameras are compared to.

Jeffrey Knapp said:

Also, I finally figured out how picturestage.com works and to see
the (unretouched) LUMIX pics that I took in the store, enter my
email address for the login and then type "lumix" for the password.
--
Mr. Osaka

Click to expand...

The images have a lot of color saturation. This is not a bad thing, I'm used to Sony that has that. However, in bright sunlight the color highlights may blowout. The skintones were pleasing. The corner detail was very good. If you used auto white balance, that seems good also for that situation.

Victor Vivaudou said:

The images have a lot of color saturation. This is not a bad
thing, I'm used to Sony that has that. However, in bright sunlight
the color highlights may blowout. The skintones were pleasing. The
corner detail was very good. If you used auto white balance, that
seems good also for that situation.

Click to expand...

Victor, you have hit the nail on the head. In some of the pictures that I have seen, that seems to be the main problem. There is a great article in the Japanese "Impress" company's January digital camera magazine that "seems" to be using the LUMIX to demonstrate some ideas (not explicitly stated, so it could have been another camera) and that is the oneof the things you immediately notice. The beautiful color gradations suggest strongly that a Leica lens was involved, but I'll have to check on that.

Also, in the same issue, there are some pictures taken demonstrating the new conversion ring to allow you to use Leica and Contax lenses with Canon's D-30 and 1D. While the picutures are undeniably gorgeous, there are the same blown highlights.
I wonder if a polarizing filter would help?

ps I set the white balance using the back of a white card. Helped quite a bit.

Jeffrey(at home) Knapp said:

Victor, you have hit the nail on the head. In some of the pictures
that I have seen, that seems to be the main problem. There is a
great article in the Japanese "Impress" company's January digital
camera magazine that "seems" to be using the LUMIX to demonstrate
some ideas (not explicitly stated, so it could have been another
camera) and that is the oneof the things you immediately notice.
The beautiful color gradations suggest strongly that a Leica lens
was involved, but I'll have to check on that.
Also, in the same issue, there are some pictures taken
demonstrating the new conversion ring to allow you to use Leica and
Contax lenses with Canon's D-30 and 1D. While the picutures are
undeniably gorgeous, there are the same blown highlights.
I wonder if a polarizing filter would help?

ps I set the white balance using the back of a white card. Helped
quite a bit.

Click to expand...

The zeiss lens does give alot of saturation, but that is unlikely to blowout highlights. Rather I think that exposure could be controlled a bit more. Maybe tome down the sat. to take the edge off.

When Sony modified the F707 preproduction, thye pulled back the sat. about 7%. It still had vivid colors, but there was detail in the highlights.

If Lumix offers a RAW file, that would be great to tweak the image alot.