new to Alien bees setup

Hello to all who can help.....
Need to get into studio lighting and 99% going with the bees.
I know starting out I should look @ 1 or 2 light setup.
But I have some extra cash right now, so i will buy 4 Abs, and 4
photoflex sb's.... Need to buy them now while i have the cash, as not to
use it somewhere else.

The question is this.....I want the power to do almost anything, but will be using small space @ the start, 10 x 15 area or so, but if need comes to shoot in larger studio i want power. So if i get 4 ab 1600 , will i be able to dail them down and use in smaller spaces if need so, and what 4 photoflex sb should be good to get.
Thank you for any help
Peter

Dialing down the 1600s may be an issue, but you can easily solve it by getting a 2-stop neutral density filter for you studio lens.

In most of the lighting books that I've seen, 2 or 3 softboxes are typically the maximum that are used. One medium, one large, and a strip box should do the trick. Kickers and background lights often use other modifiers. You could get by with umbrellas or grids to fill out your modifier inventory.

Good luck.

Thank you.....anyone else with my setup help

You will have a lot of difficulty dialing the 1600's down. I have the B800 and many times wish I had the smaller B400. Save some money and get the B800. If you do not like them you can return them and get the B1600 if do the exchange within 30 day. All you would pay is the difference.

You don't want to be using ND filters. Gone are the days of slow film. ISO 100 is the normal minimum. And shooting at ISO 800 produces very good pictures. You can illuminate a lot with the B800 and ISO 800.

Save some money (get the B800's) and get some accessories. I highly recommend the wired remote.

--
RayT

I didn't buy 4 1600's but initially bought 4 800W Bees. I have yet to dial any of them all the way up for anything . In fact, for most of what I do, the 800s are way over-kill. Now I have no idea what you'll be doing with them but almost always my problem with my 800s is too much light. Recently I bought one 400W but that didn't help; since the power isn't linear the amount of light coming out of a 400 cranked all the way down is pretty much the same as an 800 cranked all the way down - or that's the case with mine, which I've tested with a light meter.

As mentioned above, one way around it is to simply buy a 2 stop ND filter if your lights are too bright. You'll lose a tiny bit of resolution but usually that's not an issue with portraits since most people don't want to count their nose hairs and skin pores. ;-)

I have learned one rather hard lesson: For me, simple is better. I get much better portraits (head shots I should say) using only 1 light and a reflector, or at the most, two lights. The more lights you add the better you have to be to control them. It's pretty much that simple.

Here's a portrait I did using 2 Bees, an 800 was pretty much directly behind me in a large soft-box, cranked all the way down. The 400 was off to camera right in a smaller softbox bumped up two stops: http://www.photo.net/photodb/photo?photo_id=5053172 In most cases that's all I need but again, you may have a lot more room in your studio and more ambitious lighting goals. Good luck!

beau...very nice shot....You guys are a great help.....
so maybe 1 400ab, 2 800 ab, 1 1600 ab

I have B400s, B800s, a B1600, and two White Lightning X1600s.

If you really think you will need 600 watt seconds, the White Lightning is significantly more efficient than the B1600. The primary difference is that the X1600 has a specific step-down mechanism to reach its lower end, rather than simply minimizing the capacitor load.

Color and exposure consistency of the White Lightning at minimum power is significantly better than the B1600 set at its minimum (and the White Lightning has a lower minimum, too). Moreover, if you need the power because you're putting it in a large softbox (as I do), then that extra 100-150 watts of modeling light also comes in very handy. Yeah, it's a hundred dollars more, but it's significantly better, if you MIGHT need the power.

IMO, the most versatile of the Alien Bees lights is the B800. It works well when dialed down, and pretty well handles anything smaller than large commercial sets. Beyond that, it's time to go White Lightning.

I think the B1600 option is really more for people who have B800s and just want an inexpensive way to upgrade them.

--
RDKirk
'TANSTAAFL: The only unbreakable rule in photography.'

So you think getting 4 x1600 will allow me to dial it way down to use

in smaller shooting area for port. and head shots, and have all the power i need to shoot in the larger studios settings, because the abs just don't let you dial it down as the wl 1600 are able too.

Re> so maybe 1 400ab, 2 800 ab, 1 1600 ab

This makes sense to me, sort of. It's overkill, but if you want to spend more money than you need to, now, this is the best bet.

For softboxes, one each large, medium and small is a good idea, plus a large umbrella and a small umbrella, and some grids will be handy.

The brand new Alien Bee electronic trigger seems like a good thing, so buy one.

If you're going to take pictures of people and not have every shot look the same, buy a decent flash meter. A Sekonic 308S is hard to beat.

Light stands, of course. If you don't want to buy the Alien Bee ones, Manfrotto / Bogen make fine products that last forever.

How are you going to hold backgrounds in place? That can use some of your budget. And if you are phtographing people, are they going to sit on something? More money there, either at an antique store or IKEA, or somewhere else.

Lots of beauty-shot people photographers like the three-panel reflector system that Lastolite makes that goes in front of the subject, below the camera, and bounces light back up.

And if you're ever going to leave home, a good bag or two or three is handy. Remember, a big bag attracts lots of equipment and gets so heavy you can't lift it. Wheels are your friend. Those hard sided cases that golfers use to ship their clubs are good for light stands.

It is very, very easy to overpower your flash system. Three heads running off a 500 w/s Dynalite power pack have served me well on one and two person portraits for years. 1000 w/s off one pack and 500 off the other have served me well, combined, for big subjects.

A tripod is a very useful studio accessory. As is a big full length mirror.

BAK

RDKirk said:

I have B400s, B800s, a B1600, and two White Lightning X1600s.

If you really think you will need 600 watt seconds, the White
Lightning is significantly more efficient than the B1600. The
primary difference is that the X1600 has a specific step-down
mechanism to reach its lower end, rather than simply minimizing the
capacitor load.

Color and exposure consistency of the White Lightning at minimum
power is significantly better than the B1600 set at its minimum
(and the White Lightning has a lower minimum, too). Moreover, if
you need the power because you're putting it in a large softbox (as
I do), then that extra 100-150 watts of modeling light also comes
in very handy. Yeah, it's a hundred dollars more, but it's
significantly better, if you MIGHT need the power.

IMO, the most versatile of the Alien Bees lights is the B800. It
works well when dialed down, and pretty well handles anything
smaller than large commercial sets. Beyond that, it's time to go
White Lightning.

I think the B1600 option is really more for people who have B800s
and just want an inexpensive way to upgrade them.

--
RDKirk
'TANSTAAFL: The only unbreakable rule in photography.'

Click to expand...

The WL 1600 and AB1600 have the same efficiency and dial accuracy. Regarding power levels, the WL1600 is switchable from 660WS at Full power to 165W. Therefore it is effectively an AB 1600 or AB400 depending on how you set the power switch. This gives the WL1600 a 1 to 1/128th range of prower adjustment for those who need to cover all power ranges. (This is a 7 f adjustment range - others choose to incorrectly call it 8f) The same for flash duration - at the 1/4 power setting, the flash duration is 1/4 also (similar to AB400).

Circuitry is very much the same between AB and WL, but WL offers metal housing, larger modeling lamp (250W) separate flash and model controls, longer warrantee and a few other features.

Regards,

Paul Buff

so i can use the x1600 and use less power for port. or head shots.

Peter Nicholas said:

so i can use the x1600 and use less power for port. or head shots.

Click to expand...

Yes. When set at 1/4 power the X1600 effectively becomes an AB400 and can be dialed down five more stops.

Paul Buff

Paul

Thank you and now i have a clearer idea where i'm going.
why is it that people say dont buy your softboxes because of the quality,
and you seem to be a very smart business man, because it looks as i'm buying
your lights, and you don't upgrade you softboxes to a better quality...
forget that i asked that question, you don't need to answer.
I have my own restaurant businesses, and i get tired of people asking
why i dont have this on the menu...

well, anyway, thank you for helping with getting an idea, and to all on this board.

Thanks
Peter

Peter Nicholas said:

Paul

Thank you and now i have a clearer idea where i'm going.
why is it that people say dont buy your softboxes because of the
quality,
and you seem to be a very smart business man, because it looks as
i'm buying
your lights, and you don't upgrade you softboxes to a better
quality...
forget that i asked that question, you don't need to answer.
I have my own restaurant businesses, and i get tired of people asking
why i dont have this on the menu...

well, anyway, thank you for helping with getting an idea, and to
all on this board.

Thanks > Peter

Click to expand...

Peter,

We are working with several vendors now to be able to offer some improved softboxes. It's a matter of time and design power. There are many sources of auxiliary hardware around. I am almost the sole design engineer in my company and have to spend the bulk of my time where it has the most impact - on the design of our primary product - the lights themselves.

In the meantime we sell tens of thousands of softboxes, stands, etc, all on total satisfaction basis and the vast majority of our customers are happy.
I owned a restaurant myself for a while so I feel your pain.

Regards,

Paul Buff

Paul,

In business its rear to deal with people like yourself, I'm amazed
and happy to deal with someone like yourself, and very glad to have
talked with you here. I was just telling my wife just how smart of a person
you are, and she asked how old you are, i told her i dont know!

So i checked the web site for your Bio, and i started reading, then i see Rancho Cucamunga....and i said WOW...now i know why i got along with you. I live in NYC now and in rest. business and 44 years old, I Lived in Ranch
Cucamunga from 1980 - 1987 , were you out there at that time ?
Drop me an e-mail.....small world

paulbuff said:

Circuitry is very much the same between AB and WL, but WL offers
metal housing, larger modeling lamp (250W) separate flash and model
controls, longer warrantee and a few other features.

Click to expand...

Curiousity and being too lazy to locate my manuals causes me to ask what is the highest wattage modeling light I can use on my B800s and B1600?

--
Charlie Self
http://www.charlieselfonline.com

--

'When the seagulls follow the trawler, it's because they think sardines will be thrown in
to the sea.' - Eric Cantona

http://robsonj.smugmug.com/

Peter Nicholas said:

Paul,

In business its rear to deal with people like yourself, I'm amazed
and happy to deal with someone like yourself, and very glad to have
talked with you here. I was just telling my wife just how smart of
a person
you are, and she asked how old you are, i told her i dont know!
So i checked the web site for your Bio, and i started reading, then
i see Rancho Cucamunga....and i said WOW...now i know why i got
along with you. I live in NYC now and in rest. business and 44
years old, I Lived in Ranch
Cucamunga from 1980 - 1987 , were you out there at that time ?
Drop me an e-mail.....small world

Click to expand...

Well, I was at Zappa'a house in 1987 - last time I saw him before the grim reaper got him.

I was in Cucamonga last fall to play in a Zappa/Pal remembrance concert. Some young guys in the area put it on - they are finishing up a Zappa documentary they've been doing for about three years now.

I sold Pal Studio to Zappa in 1964 and moved to Hollywood, then left So Cal in 1972 for Gnashvulle - been here since. Deb and I go to Venice Beach now and then to see the real world and feed the homeless.

After denying my age for most of my life I turned 70 this year and decided to admit it. Dyed my hair flaming red so people would think I'm 26.
Now all my secrets are out.

Peace, love and bright lights to ya'll,

Paul Buff

CharlieDIY said:

paulbuff said:

Circuitry is very much the same between AB and WL, but WL offers
metal housing, larger modeling lamp (250W) separate flash and model
controls, longer warrantee and a few other features.

Click to expand...

Curiousity and being too lazy to locate my manuals causes me to ask
what is the highest wattage modeling light I can use on my B800s
and B1600?

--
Charlie Self
http://www.charlieselfonline.com

Click to expand...

The highest we recommend is 150W. Some users put in 250W Quartz. They will work this way but you have to be careful if you run them at full brightness for long periods, particularly with grids or other heat trapping accessories. You are not very likely to have problems doing this, but could deteriorate the sockets over time. This is why our recommendation is 150W.

Paul Buff