RAW conversion vs. PP sharpening

Cirruz

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Hi there,

I noticed that a lot of people apply sharpening in PP, for example, with Photoshop Unsharpen Mask, and don't do it during the RAW convertion process... Is there any objective reazon for doing this? I tried the two technincs and the RAW sharpening gives me much more satisfatory results! So, why using USM?!?

Thanks a lot in advance,

Cirruz
 
I don't use dpp's sharpening because it's ugly to me. It produces halo's and noise speckles. I'll try to explain with some examples.

This detail (cropped) original is processed using dpp, without sharpening applied, for your pixelpeep convenience I've enlarged it (using pxel replication/box/fast resize) 200%, basically a 200% crop. You can see it's very soft, it's taken with tamron 70-300:



DPP sharpening applied, maximum sharpening. Note the (artificial) halo under the branche and the noise with smooth patches in between typical for sharpening with a threshold:



photoshop usm applied. Settings: 400, 0.9, 0. There's a halo noticeable as well, and the noise is more uniform, easier to get rid of in noise ninja or neat image:



photoshop sharpening action I made to filter out the halo. Note that sharpening seems a lot less detailed. That shows how much artificial detail is introduced. I could have increased sharpening, or even use 2 passes. One 200, 0.9, 0 and one 200, 1.6, 0 I usually do with this lens at 300mm. It's still noisy, but I'll get to that after this:



To clean up the noise, I run an action to make a mask that brings back unsharpened parts of the original where there's very little detail like bokeh and smooth surfaces. I can make adjustments, or threshold using levels on the mask. Note a little bit of noise around the edges, it looks a bit like jpg noise:



Final image. After that I use noise ninja to clean the rest of the noise out without loosing detail too much because I have taken care of that in the previous steps. It's really smooth and can be too clinical but I like it though, I'll leave it this way. The difference won't show up on small prints but in larger print or on screen, especially with high contrast tft panels the difference is noticeable:



The final full photo looks like this:



If the sharpening in dpp is more than good enough for you, that's great. It's a personal taste. If you want to print photo's large (30x40cm or 13x18" and up) noise will be a lot more noticeable (as well as other defects).
Hi there,

I noticed that a lot of people apply sharpening in PP, for example,
with Photoshop Unsharpen Mask, and don't do it during the RAW
convertion process... Is there any objective reazon for doing this?
I tried the two technincs and the RAW sharpening gives me much more
satisfatory results! So, why using USM?!?

Thanks a lot in advance,

Cirruz
 
Hi imqqmi, thanks for your valuable response. I can easilly see the differences, and they are HUGE! But I'm working with Capture One... Do you, by any change, know if Capture One has the same problem as DPP?

Cirruz
 
I'm sorry, no I've never tried it. If it uses the same plain old USM, I think it's pretty much the same. DPP uses a fixed usm by the looks of it. The slider adjusts between about 50 to 500% with a fixed threshold of about 3-5 I guess. Radius above 1.0 probably. You can try it yourself, apply maximum sharpening and zoom in to 200%. Look for the noise patterns and halo. See if there are artifacts you don't like.
Hi imqqmi, thanks for your valuable response. I can easilly see the
differences, and they are HUGE! But I'm working with Capture One...
Do you, by any change, know if Capture One has the same problem as
DPP?

Cirruz
 
I don't apply any sharpening in Capture One. I set the default to "Standard" and leave sharpening at 0. Capture One pulls FAR more detail from RAW then DPP or Photoshop ACR.
 
I don't apply any sharpening in Capture One. I set the default to
"Standard" and leave sharpening at 0. Capture One pulls FAR more
detail from RAW then DPP or Photoshop ACR.
Detail extraction is one of C1's biggest benefits, along with low noise.
I have many ISO 400 conversions that look clean and smooth, without
any further need for NR.

Rob

--
'Don't sneak up on it - surround it'
 
I'll give it a try, thanks for the info. I've been hearing good things about C1.
I don't apply any sharpening in Capture One. I set the default to
"Standard" and leave sharpening at 0. Capture One pulls FAR more
detail from RAW then DPP or Photoshop ACR.
Detail extraction is one of C1's biggest benefits, along with low
noise.
I have many ISO 400 conversions that look clean and smooth, without
any further need for NR.

Rob

--
'Don't sneak up on it - surround it'
 
Often, some sharpening need to be applied locally (in certain parts of the photo only), and I do this in CS2. In my RAW converters, all sharpening are global.

Romy
Hi there,

I noticed that a lot of people apply sharpening in PP, for example,
with Photoshop Unsharpen Mask, and don't do it during the RAW
convertion process... Is there any objective reazon for doing this?
I tried the two technincs and the RAW sharpening gives me much more
satisfatory results! So, why using USM?!?

Thanks a lot in advance,

Cirruz
--



http://www.pbase.com/liquidstone
(Over 200 species captured, and counting)
 
I don't apply any sharpening in Capture One. I set the default to
"Standard" and leave sharpening at 0. Capture One pulls FAR more
detail from RAW then DPP or Photoshop ACR.
Detail extraction is one of C1's biggest benefits, along with low
noise.
I have many ISO 400 conversions that look clean and smooth, without
any further need for NR.

Rob

--
'Don't sneak up on it - surround it'
Highly recommended from the 2 weeks trial I had it for. LE version is only 99US$ but it does (activation key) come bundled with Sandisk Extreme cards. Now, nothing is written on the outside of the packaging so make sure you are able to return it based on it not contained within. Huge promotional mismanagement IMO

between Phase1 and Sandisk. I have deleted the 14 day trial now and use something else entirely but came very close to buying it myself. Bible wasn't too bad and Acr is a shocker for raw concersion (with PSE3 anyway). Most offer trials so ultimately decide for yourself. Good luck.
Cheers Suby
 
I've been playing with C1 pro trial. Here are my findings so far: CA seems to be better in C1, thats a big plus. Detail extraction, I'm not sure I get more detail (as in sharpness) but it definitively has a better tonal curve than DPP. Detail in highlights seems better. One thing I found out by pixelpeeping both DPP and C1 output, the de-moziacing method looks different and C1 gives more (I'm not sure how to explain it) discontinuous lines. Sometimes pixels don't seem to blend properly. It's like a dither pattern, especially noticeable in the corners of the photo. Here is an example. You can see the reddish branch down right under the words C1 and DPP, with dpp its smooth and continuous, with C1 it's broken up. Ignore the color difference:



I doubt it will be obvious at smaller prints but very large prints might be less forgiving. Maybe I'm too pixel perfect ;)

Thumbnail preview takes a while with a large folder of photo's. I definitely keep on trying C1 out for a while.
I don't apply any sharpening in Capture One. I set the default to
"Standard" and leave sharpening at 0. Capture One pulls FAR more
detail from RAW then DPP or Photoshop ACR.
Detail extraction is one of C1's biggest benefits, along with low
noise.
I have many ISO 400 conversions that look clean and smooth, without
any further need for NR.

Rob

--
'Don't sneak up on it - surround it'
 

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