5D flash macro setup help

Hello,

This is my very first post here so please go easy on me!

Im pretty much a total newbie to the world of photography, but since I got my 5D in the last year i've been happily and inexorably drawn into its wierd, wonderful and a lot of the times confusing web..

Anyway, one thing i would like to really like to improve is my macro technique. In particular, I find myself out and about travelling, and Im drawn towards flowers and bees and insects. Its not really practical for me to use a tripod, and generally i need to use flash to ensure that the subject appears static. However, i am more than clueless about flash! I've tried a bit with the onboard using my Tamron 90mm 2.8 macro lens with mixed results (though Ive seen some good examples in this forum), but I would like to extract better results.

I own a 3600HS and reckon this could help, but Im not sure how best to use it. (i dont want to shell out for a ringflash or anything which requires too much manual setup!). I thought about using it wirelessly in a flash bracket and using it alongside the onboard. I don't particularly want to hold the flash in one hand and the camera in the other!

Does anyone have experience with this? Ive seen brackets on sale on eBay but im not sure which one would be best - should it allow the flash to be positioned close to the subject? Additionally, would some kind of diffuser help (again, something im not too clued up on)?

If anyone has any advice or can share their macro setup using similar equipment to mine that would be great!

many thanks
jim

I've used a 3600HS wirelessly with my KM 50mm 1:2.8 lens. Works no problems at all. I just used it hand-held...camera in right hand...flash in left. The flash I held so it was basically touching the top of the end of lens so that everything in the pic would be illuminated.

Another option is to use an OC-1100 and OS-1100 which means the on-board flash doesn't have to be in an off position.

I've now progressed to 3 x 5600HS which I use wirelessly with macro, with one flash in the position described above and the other two providing some back light or filling in other shadow areas.

Using the 3600 with a diffuser is probably reasonably OK. I have used a Sigma EF500 DG Super on camera with diffuser with yhe Sigma 180mm macro. It is OK but similar to the on board flash.

One alternative might be two small slave flashes on a bracket and triggered by the on camera flash. They need to have a pre-flash setting but most of the newer ones have this. The EF500 and 3600 flashes are very heavy for this type of use, particularly two of them.

Daylight is still preferable for insects even if you need to use higher ISO.

--
dhaslam
http://www.pbase.com/dhaslam/galleries

I'm in about the same position as you. A little more experience shooting but only semi seriously (as a recreation) for a year or so. I know you stated you don't want to mess with a ring flash and manual settings. I felt the same way but after spending $82.00 for a cheap macro ring flash I'm glad I did. I'm also using a Tamron 90mm macro and coupled with the macro ringflash it makes a very nice combo. Usually setting the shutter to 125 and f11-18 or so yields good results. I was intimidated at first but after a few practice shots it's really pretty easy. I'm no pro but this cheap ringflash and Tamron lens yield some pretty decent results. I shoot mostly handheld and using the 3600 worked but I usually need two hands to hold the camera steady and sometimes subjects just don't want to stay still long enough to set up a stand for the flash. The flash I bought is shown here http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ih=020&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWN%3AIT&viewitem=&item=300021476796&rd=1&rd=1

and below are a few samples taken with the cheap flash. The exif states a flash didn't fire. I'm not sure why it states that when using this flash. These are just some snap shots taken in the yard but it will give you an idea of the possibilities with the ringflash Tamron combo in the right hands (not mine .









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Read about Tristate Cameras return policy at

http://www.davidsprague.com/ if your even remotely considering a purchase from them!

But more seriously, a ring-flash would be the obvious solution, and a good one, too.

There's also the twin-flash version, which may be more cumbersome, but also allows for more control. With the two flash heads mounted directly on the adapter-ring you get about the same effect as with a ring flash, but in manual the you can adjust the amount of light from either flash head, and with extenders and diffusers you can soften the light.

Thanks very much for the advice, Davids

I've spent so so so much on my kit to date, but you're tempting me with the ring flash! i do most of my photography on the move, so i don't really want to go down too much the specialist twin flash route (though Im sure that would lead to even better results).

Ideally I'd like to push my current equipment (plus maybe a bracket/diffuser if i can work out which ones could possibly help) to see what results I could get. The only thing with the brackets i see on eBay is that they keep the flash directly over the camera, where im thinking that I'd want to have the flash right next to the lens, as David C mentions..

David, what is the brand of the "cheap" ring flash you purchased, and where did you purchase it? Thanks in advance for the info.

If you follow the link to the ebay site you will get all the info - it is marked as 'Phoenix'.

I have just ordered one - just too tempting!
-- David

Model number is RL-59 -M
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-- David

I use many types of flash and brackets for macro work, ring flash, twin, single etc, all of which are manual units. Strangely, the Centon ring flash was designated for the Dynax 7 but on the 7D the camera gave no indication of it being fitted and only fired full power. It worked fine automatically on my A1. On the Alpha 100, again it seems to work ok. Go figure!!

However, brackets. I have soooo many, some purchased, most home made. The one I now use most though is this one http://www.manfrotto.com/Jahia/site/manfrotto/cache/off/pid/2808?livid=103~104&idx=109 which is adjustable in height, moves 360deg sideways and 360deg forward. You can put this anywhere you like and is good for general flash photography as well by taking the gun (strobe) away from the lens. For macro I use it with a Novoflex mini ball head/flash shoe and angles are almost infinitable http://www.novoflex.com/english/html/co_esz6.php

This set up also works fine with a panel flash like the MagneFlash 57 digital for soft but directional lighting if you wish or almost ringflash flatness when directly overhead http://www.beckhamdigital.co.uk/productcart/pc/viewPrd.asp?idcategory=56&idproduct=42

With the Alpha though you would have to find/purchase the camera shoe to x-sync adapter or set all flash to manual and use a flash trigger between the Novoflex head and gun (strobe). Not needed on the 7D.
Hope this helps.
Denis.
--
DenisG.
http://www.denisg.co.uk/gallery/
First get a pic, if it's still there, compose one!

http://www.steves-digicams.com/2003_reviews/zenon_magneflash57.html

Approx £90 in UK but I believe it can be found cheaper stateside. Build quality leaves a little to be desired, but it works ;-)

Denis.
--
DenisG.
http://www.denisg.co.uk/gallery/
First get a pic, if it's still there, compose one!

Klipsen said:

But more seriously, a ring-flash would be the obvious solution, and
a good one, too.
There's also the twin-flash version, which may be more cumbersome,
but also allows for more control. With the two flash heads mounted
directly on the adapter-ring you get about the same effect as with
a ring flash, but in manual the you can adjust the amount of light
from either flash head, and with extenders and diffusers you can
soften the light.

Click to expand...

A great deal of my macro work is at night, no chance of using natural light. Even daytime it's often in shade and too dark to stop down and shoot living animals. And it's often animal photography for me. Over 50 years I've done macro just about every way possible as far as lighting. My current system is far the easiest.

For many years I've used the Minolta ringflash, in fact my first one was the one for manual focus Minoltas. It's actually one of the reasons why I'm still using Minolta gear. The current model, the 1200 works with the same controller as the 2400 twin macro flash when working with the 7D (& 5D or A100). This is a well controlled lighting system that allows macro to be very portable, handheld, and about as easy as focus and shoot. In fact most of my effort in macro is getting the focus and DOF where I want it, I don't have to worry about the lighting much.

The twin macro is not the same as the ring flash as far as usage or effect. It's twin head mounting system is not too good for very close macro, not designed to set the flash all that close. But you can position the two flashheads in quite a variety of ways. That coupled with being able to control the flash intensity of each head independently gives you quite a range of choices at somewhat greater distances. Compared to the ringflash, this is a slower setup to use, primarily because of the choices and all the pieces to assemble. The Minolta ringflash is actually 4 flashes around a ring, with focus lights in between. You can turn the individual flashes on independently, but cannot vary their relative output.

If you want to use regular flash, the weaker flash are better, or at least ones you can adjust their power. Traditionally macro flash was done with two flash on a special bracket and I've done that. Such brackets are still available if you hunt, they are not the same thing as brackets designed to just position a single flash farther away from the camera. The Minolta/Sony twin macro flash is a direct descendent of such ideas. It's much lighter and easier to use.

For snapshot style macro or close macro I recommend the ringlight, it makes lighting for macro so easy. The package is still relatively small and breaks down into the ring and controller for packing. I've carted the older Minolta RD-175 with this and the 100mm Minolta macro through miles of brush and swamps at night primarily photographing frogs. Many of those forays would have been really hard with the traditional twin flash setup. And the new Minolta/Sony macro twinflash is made of fairly light plastic, would not be hard to break if snagged on brush. I have carted the 2400 macro twinflash through brush mounted on my 100mm on the 7D, just have to be more careful. If I want to cover ground I'll use the ringflash.

I get into macro as far as using special micro bellows lenses and magnifications up to 25X. For that sort of work a third party flash that's firing full strength and not really controlled by the camera won't cut it. It's definitely worth it for ease of work to get a macro flash setup that's fully integrated with the camera. For the 7D, 5D, or Sony A100 that's the 1200 or 2400 setups and the macro flash controller that works with both. Any earlier Minolta macro flash won't do it, though you can use the ring flash from the earlier 1200 series units with the current controller.

Yes, I know they are not cheap, but they are worth it if you do a lot of macro.

Walt

Here's a link that may be of some help for you regarding ring flashes.

http://www.cs.mtu.edu/~shene/DigiCam/User-Guide/EXT-FLASH/RING/RING.html

guyindasky said:

Here's a link that may be of some help for you regarding ring flashes.

http://www.cs.mtu.edu/~shene/DigiCam/User-Guide/EXT-FLASH/RING/RING.html

Click to expand...

Note this page is about using a ring flash (probably a Nikon one) with the Nikon Coolpix. The flash and the camera are both different than the choices for Minolta/Sony DSLR.

Ring flashes are not all created equal, each model has different characteristics, may operate quite different. Minolta's ringflash is one of the most elaborate, Minolta has been known for a long time for having good macro support. Some other ringflashes you might get to work will be much simpler. And, of course if the flash you choose does not integrate into the camera's flash exposure control system you will not have as capable a unit. You need to evaluate the full range of macro you are interested in before deciding if the simple systems will be good enough.

For me the use of preflash TTL control is less desirable than the older OTF control of previous Minolta ringflashes. This makes the flash less capable and a few situations it does not work well, particularily working with micro bellows lenses at high magnification. Usable even there, but not as reliable. I'll be really happy when the OTF control returns in some future digital, or something equivalent.

Walt

Thats great Denis. I'll look into these when I get the chance.

Thanks for the detailed reply Walt, thats really useful info. I love this forum!