AA Ni-MH Batteries vs. Nikons Li-ion ones

I've discoverd why one should buy the MB-D200 battery pack for the D200, cause the camera is quite heavy on power. But thats OK, the MB 200 is a good look and very functional.

Anyway, should I buy another EN-EL3e for my MB D200 or what do you think of AA 2500 Mah Ni-MH batteries ? Of course I'm only asking those of you who have actually used them in your MB D200 pack.

I use these excellent AA Ni-MH batteries in my spare Metz and they last so long that I can never remember when I last re-charged em.

check out this thread
http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1021&message=20094895

I use AA 2700 NiMH batteries on a MB-D200 and love it.

Pro:
1. $15 of batteries vs. $80.
2. AA Available all over the world.
3. Can use alkalines in a pinch.
4. Adds "stability" to D200.
5. AA will never be obsolete.
The older Nikon battery is already obsolete on D200.
6. AA battery will improve over time. Nikon batteries will not as quickly
and will likely be discontinued at some time.

Con:
1. Adds weight and bulk to D200.
2. MBD200 slightly loose on D200.

Benefits of both AA and 2-Nikon batteries (over one alone).
1. Battery lasts darned near forever.

Lithium works much better in the cold.

I don't have a D200, but when I get one I will get another EN-EL3e AND have a set of AA NiMh as backup because you never know when you'll need it.

Then again I'm trigger happy than the average person... hehe ... 0.02 cents.

--
D70s - 17-55mm f/2.8, 50mm f/1.4, 18-70mm kit, 70-200mm f/2.8 VR, SB-800
http://www.transgressive.ca

I suspect STRONGLY that if you have two Nikon batteries (or
6 NiMH AA) in the D200, you won't need to change batteries
on any given day.

I suppose, however, if you have a lead finger AND shoot only
RAW, it might be possible. Anyone have any experience with this?

I believe that if the D200 with MB-D200 can not be used, it won't be because of a dead battery. Likely, you will need to go to a backup body.

i'm using six 2500mah rechargeable AAs in my MB-D200 and they work well. HOWEVER! one major advantage the EN-EL3e's have over AAs in the grip is that you can get a fairly accurate reading from the battery meter on the top LCD and in the menu-driven battery meter. when i'm using AAs, the battery meter on the top LCD goes from five bars to four bars and then directly to 'completely out! can't take another shot! change me NOW.' the menu-driven battery meter doesn't work at all with AAs.

i have 4gig cards and shoot raw+sm fn jpeg

for me i get down to the last bar on the batt meter when i start to fill up a card in general. so i have two batts and 2 cards.

if i am shooting something where i do a lot of thinking and contemplating, the batt goes much waster because of meter and screen use but i dont do 4gig in one session in that fashion either.

when i am shooting quickly, i can use up a batt and card in an hour.

i have some worries about battery life as my D200 is entering its first winter.

--
D70s - 17-55mm f/2.8, 50mm f/1.4, 18-70mm kit, 70-200mm f/2.8 VR, SB-800
http://www.transgressive.ca

Paul Broome said:

I've discoverd why one should buy the MB-D200 battery pack for the
D200, cause the camera is quite heavy on power. But thats OK, the
MB 200 is a good look and very functional.

Click to expand...

Personally, I prefer not having a battery pack. This may be because I use the D200 as a "light and comfortable" alternative to my D2X, so my reason most likely doesn't apply to you. But even at its worst, a D200 needs its battery changed about every 400 shots, and that's better than 10 rolls of film. With a decent battery meter, you're never really "caught by surprise" with a dead battery: swaps at "idle" times in the shoot are easy to plan.

Paul Broome said:

Anyway, should I buy another EN-EL3e for my MB D200 or what do you
think of AA 2500 Mah Ni-MH batteries ? Of course I'm only asking
those of you who have actually used them in your MB D200 pack.

Click to expand...

Well, I gave up on them with my MB-D100 battery pack on my D100, for a number of reasons...

Paul Broome said:

I use these excellent AA Ni-MH batteries in my spare Metz and they
last so long that I can never remember when I last re-charged em.

Click to expand...

OK, here's several good reasons for the Li-Ion

1) As exe pointed out, Lithium is much better than NiMH in the cold.

2) As Conway Yee forgot to point out, your camera comes with a Li-Ion charger, and a good NiMH charger like a LaCrosse costs about $60. (even if you're already carrying NiMH for a flash, because that leaves you 10 batteries to charge, three "loads" for a charger that does 4 cells at a time).

3) As 21farms pointed out, the D200 battery power remaining meter is only accurate when using Li-Ion.

4) Mismatched NiMH batteries can go into a failure mode called "reversal", which destroys the weakest cell in a set of 4 or 6 connected in series. So, if you plan on keeping the NiMH cells for a couple of years, you have to mark them in sets of 6 for the D200, sets of 4 for the flash, and never mix batteries from two different matched sets. A Lacrosse charger can mitigate this, if you use the "refresh" feature periodically, but that can take a full fay for each set of 4 2500 NiMH batteries. There are two cells in series in a Li-Ion pack, which is a lot more reliable than six cells in series. The cells start their lives matched, and stay together permanently in one pack, so you never accidentally mismatch them.

5) One Li-Ion pack with the snap-on cover is smaller, and much more convenient than 6 NiMH in an 8 cell AA holster (I've only seen AA holders in 2, 4, and 8 cells, no 6 cell).

6) A set of 6 AA 2500mA-H are 18.8 W-H, assuming perfect matching and a perfect charge, like from a LaCrosse charger. Two Li-Ion are 20.4 W-H, so they give you more power in the MB-D200 (but less weight) so you're ahead of the game.

--
Normally, a signature this small can't open its own jumpgate.

Ciao! Joe

http://www.swissarmyfork.com

Joseph S. Wisniewski said:

OK, here's several good reasons for the Li-Ion

1) As exe pointed out, Lithium is much better than NiMH in the cold.

2) your camera comes with a Li-Ion charger,

3) D200 battery meter is only accurate when using Li-Ion.

4) Mismatched NiMH batteries can go into a failure mode called
"reversal",

5) One Li-Ion pack with the snap-on cover is smaller, and much more
convenient than 6 NiMH in an 8 cell AA holster

6) Two Li-Ion give you more power in the MB-D200

Click to expand...

7) Unless you manage to get your hands on the new "long shelf life" Sanyos (are they even on the market yet?), Li-Ion has a much better shelf life than NiMH. So, if you don't use your camera for two weeks, you won't be surprised by dead batteries. (The 2700 Ma-H Sanyos do that in my flashes).

--
Normally, a signature this small can't open its own jumpgate.

Ciao! Joe

http://www.swissarmyfork.com

Ritz Camera and Circuit City carry the Eneloop (low self-discharge) cells. "The Source" carries them in Canada (though the price of $45 CDN for 8 is pretty high).

Greg

MH-C204W Charger (120-240v built-in) is what I purchased.....along with 8- 2700mah batteries plus the small 25w Inverter for automobile use.....

http://www.thomasdistributing.com/maha-powerex-mh-c204w-nimh-battery-charger-buy.php3

Greg Erker said:

Ritz Camera and Circuit City carry the Eneloop (low self-discharge)
cells.

Click to expand...

Thanks. That's the name I was trying to remember.

Greg Erker said:

"The Source" carries them in Canada (though the price of $45
CDN for 8 is pretty high).

Click to expand...

Especially considering that the "regular" Sanyo batteries are 2700mA-H and the eneloop are 1900 mA-H. At that level, the 6 eneloop only have 37% more power than a single EN-EL3e lithium, but about three times the weight.

--
Normally, a signature this small can't open its own jumpgate.

Ciao! Joe

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BeachnCruz said:

MH-C204W Charger (120-240v built-in) is what I purchased.....along
with 8- 2700mah batteries plus the small 25w Inverter for
automobile use.....

Click to expand...

I commented on your recommendation for the 204 in another thread.

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1021&message=20518969

In any application where the batteries get hard treatment (flashes especially, but cameras are still pretty hard) two channel chargers like the Maha 204 cause any inequalities between cells to be amplified, the batteries get more and more mismatched, the weakest cell getting weaker and weaker. And, since they're connected in series, the weakest link makes the whole set perform badly.

Get a 4 channel Maha like the 401, you won't be sorry. Or the new 801, or a La Crosse.

--
Normally, a signature this small can't open its own jumpgate.

Ciao! Joe

http://www.swissarmyfork.com

Yup. Making them low self-discharge must conflict with making the highest capacity.

What that means is that the 2700 mAH Sanyo's have more remaining energy in them for roughly the first 25 days (if you believe the rule-of-thumb 1% per day self-discharge rate for regular Nimh cells). For more infrequent charging the Eneloop cells are better.

Greg

Greg Erker said:

Yup. Making them low self-discharge must conflict with making the
highest capacity.

What that means is that the 2700 mAH Sanyo's have more remaining
energy in them for roughly the first 25 days (if you believe the
rule-of-thumb 1% per day self-discharge rate for regular Nimh
cells). For more infrequent charging the Eneloop cells are better.

Click to expand...

The Sanyo 2700 discharges a lot faster than 1% day. In 30 days, it's close to dead.

--
Normally, a signature this small can't open its own jumpgate.

Ciao! Joe

http://www.swissarmyfork.com

Really? Wow! So the Eneloop should be ahead (more remaining charge) after 1 week. Certainly by 2 weeks.

Greg

I specifically asked Thomas Distributing today on the phone to explain the difference between the Maha C204X and the Maha 401FS. They basically explained that the two chargers are comparable and that they were not aware of any battery problems caused by the C204X. I could not get any specifics out of them and in reading their website posted information both chargers sound excellent. I do like the thought of the completely independant charging of each individual battery with the Maha 401FS. I would be interested to know where you acquired your official information about the Maha C204X causing battery problems. Choosing the C204X was a result of reading the Thomas Distributing posted information and viewing their charger comparison chart. If your information is accurate than I would consider asking Thomas Distributing to exchange the C204X for the 401FS. The price differential would only be $9.00 . The Maha Powerex 2700mah Batteries seem to be very well rated....The Maha 401FS won awards in 2002, but that was 4 years ago....

Here is a link to a 2004 review of the Maha C204W Charger.....

http://www.imaging-resource.com/ACCS/C204W/C204WA.HTM

Maha/Powerex Charger Models ...Comparison chart.....

http://www.thomas-distributing.com/mh-compare-maha-nimh-aa-aaa-battery-chargers.htm