Dissatisfied wedding client. Opinions please...

Could not have siad it better myself Derek

That's a lot of pictures, she has too much choice and got bored vewing them, then decided she wasn't pleased. I reckon if they were wittled down touched up here and there and re-presented she might be happy.

The pictures of her will need some serious attention to make her happy

Her complexion is similar to that of a pickled walnut, so you'll need some gaussian blur for sure, as much as you got.

--



http://www.antonyward.com

Who paid yo? Would be my first quaestion. Any issues the MOB has should be addressed to the B and G. If your contract is with them then those are the only people you need to worry about. What if everyone at the wedding had your number or didnt like how they were represented or appeared in the pictures. 40 clients, I dont think so. As for the number you posted, I think its fine. Like someone else said, let them sort through and pick. I would only throw out what I consider to be bad pictures technically and even those you can work with a little pp.

I am not a pro but people need to be aware that there are different styles of wedding photography. Some old school pro's only take the posed shots, no candids. I have found varying tastes among B and G's. Some like the photo journalist stlye. Most people today do. It tells more of the story of the day. I cant imagine having to try and round up 3 or 4 different families for posed shots and try and remember who's who. If people are so concerned about getting particular shots then they need to make an effort that day. Not a week or 2 later with only complaints.

How do the Band G feel you did?

Good luck with the whole thing. Dont get discouraged,this will happen eventually to everyone.

The MOB might have only gone up to page six, as there's no page 7, 8, 9 displayed when on page 6, just a right arrow. So she might have seen only your assistant's shots and it could be a simple misunderstanding due to a combination of her technical ignorance and the web design.

7424: I would say that "in her day", she was an attractive woman. The problem is that the image of self remains in one's mind even though it's less than accurate at present. A dermatologist would immediately say, "too much sun". The dress IMO does not suit her - how can I put it - there is not enough dress, and this is not a warm happy colour.

I would not want to have to take this picture - the subject just isn't going to work. And to make matters worse (if that's possible) she definitely looks upset about something and it shows - big time.

This is not the photog's fault - but it is his problem, and there is no solution. I would suggest that as soon as she saw this pic, the game was over.

There are times in life when it's neither fun nor fair - this was one.
--
Glenn NK
Victoria, BC

So much to buy - not enough time and money - too much GAS.

I am by no means an expert, but I've looked over a lot of your images and I have just a few comments.

First off, you have done an exceptional job with exposure, and available lighting. Your images appear tack sharp, and you have quite a few very beautifully composed formal images, particularly of the bride, and bride/groom together. All this is to be expected, after all you are a professional photographer.

However, there are quite a few images that I find questionable.

To start off with - image #7517. I do not mean to be rude in any way shape or form, but was this shot absolutely necessary?

It is an extremely unflattering shot in the fact that the child looks completely miserable, the woman's bra strap is showing and her dress looks like it's about to fall off her shoulder.

Candid shot? Absolutely! Necessary to capture the moment and show to the Mother of the Bride? Not really. It's not an image I would imagine any MOB or wedding couple would want for their wedding album.

Next - image #7520. I fully realize that you will most likely do all you can to correct any flaws in color, etc... prior to printing out any images that are orderd for printing, but when posting these images for the family to view, maybe you could take a few moments to fix that horrible, horrible color balance at least. The woman and child, in this particular image, look jaundiced.

Images 2179-2180. I realize that a large number of your images were candids. Perfectly understandable. But in these two images, and these are only two of many that are like this, you obviously got the groom and this young boy to pose for you. Would it have been too much to ask that gentleman in the background to step aside so half his face wouldn't be in the image? Personally, and especially in image #2180, the man's half-face in the back ground just ruins the shot. In #2179 it really isn't any better as the man's face is right behind the young boy's head which completely distracts from your primary subjects.

I see that you finally shot an image of just the groom and young boy in image #2181. Prehpas the first two (2179-2180) could have been left out of your web album as they are really superfluous.

I'm going to categorize this next comment as being - All Images of Inanimate Obejcts. Namey, all the various images of bouquets, food plates, place setting cards, etc... Not a single one of them is interesting. They are all rather bland and lack luster. Most are either too closely cropped, or just too plain boring to have even bothered capturing (namely the place setting cards). I think this is one area where you could have really WOWED the MOB by being truly creative, and let's face it, you don't have to worry about a bouquet of flowers up and running off to chat with other guests. You could have really taken some time to get some beautiful shots, even if only a few, for posterity. But none of these particular images captured the imagination, none of them said 'WOW', at least not to me. I think better use of DOF would have helped here, some more blur to the bg, or other areas of the images could have helped with this Inanimate category.

Images #2300-2302. Kid pictures at these types of events are always welcome. But, from the POV I'm seeing in these particular images, you were looking down on these children when you shot these images. Would it have hurt to get down on the floor, to their level, for a better perspective, and to allow better coverage for your flash? I'm guessing you used a flash in these as the top half of the images looks slightly darker than the bottom half. If you're going to spend your valuable time, and the wedding parties' valuable money, snapping pictures of the kids horsing around on the floor, it couldn't hurt to make the images a little more interesting. How many times have I had it pointed out to me that when taking pictures of my dogs, that I should get down on the ground to their level for a better perspective, and better captures.

Enough of all this though. Personally, I think you did a very good job. However, when displaying these images for the family to view and choose which ones they want to order, it's all about presentation. I agree with many that have responded to your post, that you should have cut down on the number of shots you posted on your web site for viewing.

Trust me, I know your motivation for wanting to give the family as many shots to choose from as possible. Recently, my family hired a photog to take our family portraits, and one of the images of my grandparents turned out to be a very candid image that I just fell in love with. The photographer hated it (and so did my grandfather - he said it didn't look like him), but I absolutely loved it and I orderd an enlarged copy of it. I have it framed now and am so glad the photog didn't discard the image before I could view it first. So yes, I understand your desire to give the family as many choices as possible. But, when viewing all your wedding images from this particular set, I can fully see why the MOB complained of too many 'candid' shots. For most people, 'candids' can quite often look like 'snapshots' no matter how great the technical aspects of the shots may be. Candids are obviously a part of any wedding shoot, but most people, and to a degree, rightfully so, expect their wedding shots to be of 'portrait quality', at least the majority of the shots anyway. Certainly you have many shots in this set that are 'portrait quality' or even better, but I think cutting down on the 'candids' may have helped you avoid the reaction that you received from the MOB.

Good luck with her, and some really good work!

Bryan
--
Oak & Acorn

I'd have to agree with the other posters. I did notice a couple were there were three or four very similar images. What I've seen done before is to pick the best of the images, and present these on the first few pages. Then, go ahead and put some (but not all) of the culls that may be preferrable to them on the following pages. That way, they'll be likely to find what they want fairly quickly.

As for momzilla, all I can say is that, for the groom's sake, I hope the daughter stays out of the sun. I honestly don't think she realizes how she looks. I'd just photoshop out the wrinkles, email it to her, and ask her if that' s any better.

If you have another pic of the woman, or can crop in on her a bit in one, you may want to edit out the wrinkles (tough job, even for ps) and present it as an alternate selection. That way she can be "right" about the marks. I know she's not, but, until she is, she's not going to shut up.

I saw marks on some of the photos when they did not load completely or correctly. That might be what the MOB was referring too.

--
Jesse A.
-------Ultra-Amature Time Capture Snatcher--------
My stock photo portfolio
http://www.dreamstime.com/resp155987
and other photos http://jascher.smugmug.com/

I can see her point of view, way to many shots, no order i wouldnt want a grilled window or a concrete ball behind in my photos.

Plus i noticed someone mention its the mothers job to gather everyone for the photos seeing she did the hiring???? I dont think so, you pay someone to do that...the photographer.

Although the photos were well exposed i can see exactly what see meant.

newsshooterjim said:

If you have another pic of the woman, or can crop in on her a bit
in one, you may want to edit out the wrinkles (tough job, even for
ps) and present it as an alternate selection. That way she can be
"right" about the marks. I know she's not, but, until she is,
she's not going to shut up.

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If there is only one piucture of her, she has every right to complain. Maybe not about the series as a whole but surely on the lack of a pic of her

--
janneman
http://www.pbase.com/jl2

You spoke very well and I couldnt have said it better.

Jon Laye said:

However, I am totally dissatisifed and disappointed with the photos.

You requested sheets to be completed and faxed back to you. I
completely filled out these forms, plus added exactly what photos I
wanted and who should be in. These requests were not honored.

There were too many candid photo shots. Way too many candid shots.
I like posed photo of people.

There were not enought posed photographs taken. Especially of my
family. There is not one photo of the Bride and Groom, Parents of
Bride and sister??? I requested bride with Aunt - not one. I can
go on and on. Everything was written on the sheets I faxed.
However, they were not given too much attention.

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The client has every right to be upset "IF" you indeed worked out a shot list before the wedding and you failed to get the shots ... unless they directly told you not to get the shots on the wedding day (in which case you should have gotten the change in writting).

That might sound over the top, but I've avoided many potential problems by making sure my clients know what shots I'm going to get and making sure I deliver those shots whenever possible.

Part of meeting with the client before the wedding involves making sure BOTH the client and the photographer set reasonable expectations (including whether most shots will be candid or posed).

I hate to play devil's advocate, but I have to agree that there weren't many posed shots (particularly group shots ... and if those group shots are what you consider "posed" then you need to work on your poses).

If the mother was the one who hired you then you should have expected that she would want some nice posed group shots of various family members at the wedding ... which makes the shot list all the more important.

Jon Laye said:

No formal shots of anyone in front of the waterfalls. The beauty
of having an outside ceremony at the Addison is the fountains,
banyan trees, etc. At the beginning all photos were taken in one
spot - just as you walk in. Definitely no change of scenery.

Shots of Jill and Tony were taken in front of a window with black
bars on it as background. Why? There is so much landscaping out
side -why not use it. Instead, shots in front of an ulgy windows.

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Backgrounds are always important. I've learned that I must ALWAYS get verbal confirmation from clients that they like the backgrounds I'm posing them in front of. Making the client feel like the backgrounds are their choice (even when they aren't) helps you avoid this type of complaint. This is a once in a lifetime moment so clients expect the photographer to pick the best backgrounds available ... make the client believe that's the case.

Jon Laye said:

Poor lighting, so many photos had poor lighting.

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Personal opinion. I don't see many light/exposure related issues in these photos.

Jon Laye said:

One photo shot was of a chubby hand with a flower? What was that
all about?

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Again, personal opinon. She is upset that the results don't meet her expectations so she is just looking for things to pick at. This is yet another example of why it's important to set the clients' expectations before the wedding day.

Jon Laye said:

Some of the photos showed marks on faces that should not be there.
Exampled, photo #7424 - of myself - marks on my face. Why? Can
this be covered up?

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Most people expect images with ZERO physical flaws if they hire a photographer who shoots digital. I know, that's stupid, but that's the way it is. The average client expects every pimple, wart, and wrinkle to vanish from digital photos and they expect you to make them look 20 pounds lighter. I make it clear that extreme retouching like that comes at a price ... so clients know what to expect.

Jon Laye said:

How can this all be correected?? After all is over you only have
photos to remember the wedding by. However, we do not have
photographs that we expected.

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Once again ... it's all about "expectations." The client even said so! It's always horrible when we find ourselves in these situations as wedding photographers, but you need to do your best to keep your client happy.

I suspect that if you had worked harder before the wedding to set clear expectations for both you and the client then you wouldn't find yourself in this situation. The shots are actually pretty good. Some are clearly better than others but that can be said for every wedding that every wedding photographer has photographed. The problem isn't the shots themselves but the fact that you and the client were NOT on the same page and you failed to deliver in the client's eyes.

My old photojournalism professor in college used to say, "Perception is more real than reality." Despite the fact that there are some excellent photos here the client's perception is that you've dropped the ball. That is the only reality you need to be conncerned about.
--
http://www.jjjphotography.com

GCam said:

If I were you, I would beg Phil to remove this thread. It reflects
terribly on you and other pros who have waded in with their
opinions, especially with their descriptions of your client. You
have held up a client to ridicule and embarrassment. Totally
unprofessional. Sometimes it is better to suffer in slence and
deal with the circumstances as best you can.

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100% right!
Who would want to become a client if he sees client treated this way?

Sascha

I agree. On the second wedding I shot there was a picture of the bride's mother, nicely sharp, perfectly exposed, but with her mouth hanging open like a fresh-caught tuna. Needless to say, that one never got shown to anyone but me.

The overall advice here is that you should have culled out the weaker shots. I'm sure the 500 images could be presented as 250-300 "best shots" but even then, the bride's mother wouldn't be happy. Did she indeed fax you a list that she specifically wanted, and did you take that list and check them off? Or did you tell her beforehand that you would not take shots from the list? I'm curious about that.

Brian C. Idocks said:

I agree, she "expected" to look better than real life. You've done
weddings before, isn't that what they all want? I probably would
have left that one out by the way, she looks miserable. Other than
that, I think you did a fine job, pretty consistent, and in general
pleasing, well-lit memories. Perhaps this MOB is just looking for
something for nothing, or she's just a difficult person. Some
people cannot be pleased. I feel for you on this one!

Good Luck!

Brian
--
I want to be able to charge $1,000 for my signature on a print.
Not to actually charge that much, just to be able to do it.

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Hey you did a lot better job and my last Wedding. No Flash in Church. Dim, ok very Dim. No clear windows. Could not move. Wanted me in back of church. I got in front. White and Black the B&G.

Then no one wanted to stay dressed to get photo;s after.

Had 10 min in park (bring sunny day).

Thanks God for
DRI
http://www.fredmiranda.com/DRI/index.html

When the bride wants pics of certain people they must have someone to coordinate this. Make sure they have someone to work with you. You don't know them. On such a large wedding someone has to do the grip and grins, someone candid.

On your PICS. They are Wonderful! Lose the Old Lady with Wrinkles

DM

Something OT.

I am no pro in photgraphy but something tickled my mind. Isn't the OP digging himself a big hole because of publishing the website with the password to access the photos of this event - how does a model release come into this picture? When he gave me the option to see the photos and even order them online - isn't he making money then and in this case they would need to sign the model release. As it seems the MOB is not happy about her photo at all and she will be even unhappier if she finds out that the whole world can see the photos - even me in South Africa per example. And the website has a sign registry button, where I can drop a coment as well.

Or am I wrong?

Just my 2 cents.

Regards

Fredy

Bottom line-nothing else matters--very difficult it is to change perception ex post facto. So best to start on the right foot and stay on it, cause once it starts going downhill, there just is not enough you can do to stop it. Just my experience in professional relationships.

Being defensive, apologetic, appeasing or even agressive with some people and situs works.

Unfortunately with many others, nothing works, and once the perception is there, nothing will ever change except the situation may get worse, the more you try to correct it.

In any event, do NOT put anything in writing. Period. INDEED, YOU SHOULD NOT BE POSTING ANYTHING ON ANY FORUM, because you may find yourself sued and being forced to disclose your postings and that may only add fuel to the fire.

Communicate in person (not on the phone, but eye to eye) with them and have a witness to back you up if things later turn into a lawsuit or worse. Plus a group meeting with family present is more likely to keep things cool and possibly productive. Talking tough over the phone is easy--doing it in person is much harder--hence the email sent to you, rather than Mom paying you a personal visit.

Oddly, the complaint I have heard the most about weddings is not enough candid shots of everyone having fun, and not the absence of the formal shots.

In any event this thread is a perfect reminder to me that I am so much better off having never done a paid wedding assignment and why I am so glad to stay away from such things--my hat is off to those who do it and keep the clients happy!!!! (or atleast to those who keep them from burning down their studio with them in it--see that email aint so bad after all--things could be worse-----)

as near as I can tell, you intentionally dodged addressing her issue about not having her list fulfilled, which was her first complaint. That makes it appear as if you blew her list off. Since I don't have the list, I can't tell how much of it was filled or not filled nor did I have time to read all the posts here to see if that specific issue got addressed. The short version of your response is - "we took great pics but never got around to your list".

If this goes anywhere legal, she's already told you the first thing she'll pull out after the contract.

I'm not judging your photography skills although the photos look generally excellent, only a glaring hole in the communication.

RG

Fymoh said:

Something OT.

I am no pro in photgraphy but something tickled my mind. Isn't the
OP digging himself a big hole because of publishing the website
with the password to access the photos of this event - how does a
model release come into this picture? When he gave me the option to
see the photos and even order them online - isn't he making money
then and in this case they would need to sign the model release. As
it seems the MOB is not happy about her photo at all and she will
be even unhappier if she finds out that the whole world can see the
photos - even me in South Africa per example. And the website has a
sign registry button, where I can drop a coment as well.

Or am I wrong?

Just my 2 cents.

Regards

Fredy

Click to expand...

I had thought of that too, but didn't really want to upset the OP further, as he seems to already be in a pickle.

Glad you mentioned it, but surely he's already thought of it.

I've noticed that the OP hasn't commented or responded to any of the other posts to his thread in quite some time. I think he may have been made even more upset by everything people have been telling him?

Hope things worked out for all involved. Would be nice to hear back from him.

Bryan
--
Oak & Acorn