I really like B&H, but....

I am not religious, but taking offense at the way the B&H owner runs his business borders on intolerance. Please notice there is no religion-related anything on their website,so it is not as if the guy was trying to convert the masses. Even if he wanted to do that, well, why not? Everyone is free to read or not, to follow or not.

It is their business and they do what they want with it. If it does not suit a potential customer that person is free to go to other quality business, there is choice.

For me, B&H has been a reliable, competant and competitive supplier. Sales people on the phone are the most knowledgeble I know in the business, the web site is a masterpiece and the product selection covers pretty much everything a photographer might need.

I'm a happy customer.

Juli Valley said:

I guess I need a cup of coffee.
--
Juli
http://www.pbase.com/julivalley/galleries
Canon FiveDee, Canon 2oD, Canon Gee3, and Canon S7o, Fuji Eff30.

Click to expand...

Coffee good.

They take the same days off each year, and warn ahead of time for those like me that don't remembr. They are honest and work hard; they deserve holidays like all of us. Today I saw them straighten out a $1700 headache for me easier then you can get extra sauce at McD's. They save me time, and sanity. Happy holidays.

Another thread in here, complaning that he successfully place the order with B&H, but it was not process.. b/c of the holidays..

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1032&message=20476805

and you here are complaining that you just want to place the order, but understand it won't be process...

geez.. what B&H to do

Spelling mistakes notwithstanding, Atheist is a term that shouldn't even exist. Should we have a term negating any unevidenced, logically unverifiable belief system? The ones who subscribe to such beliefs should have their names and they do. I do not see myself as a un-astrologer or a non-numerologist. And I certainly don't consider myself an an atheist. I just don't think there is even a reason, in this day and age, with all our millenia-old accumulated scientific knowledge and the dubious history (still much of it in the making) of religion, to believe such things anymore.

I agree with you wholeheartedly on pretty much everything else you said. But some of us really take an issue with the word atheist. It is something religious people would call us, as they assume there is a god in the first place. Some of us don't make such rushed assumptions.

Forrest said:

Forrest41926 said:

I respect their devotion to their faith.

Click to expand...

I do, too, and I think, the fact that I'm an Athiest supporting
them in their expression of faith, says quite a lot. Not that I'm
against religion ... but I'm the last person you'd expect to be for
it.

The fact is B&H is about the most reputable, moral place you could
buy photography equipment from. Maybe that has something to do
with the fact that they really believe in their religion, maybe it
doesn't.

But being faithful followers of their religion is more important to
them than money, and in my personal experience, being good, honest
people means more to them than money or making a sale. I have
complete trust and confidence in them.

I don't care so much why this is, but I have a feeling them dealing
honestly with me is a symptom of the same thing that has them
closed for Saturday. When there are so many internet scam shops,
I'm GLAD to find someone who's lead by their moral compass instead
of the bottom line.

Plus, we have freedom of faith in America, and a shopkeep also has
freedom to run his shop as he sees fit. I support them in both.

Click to expand...

Would you prefer agnostic?

I can perfectly understand that a religious person could find my condition of being non religious a pityful one. I don't agree, but that does not mean I'm right.

So, athiest has that meaning, literally 'without a god'. I am not offended to be called that way.

--
Juli
http://www.pbase.com/julivalley/galleries
Canon FiveDee, Canon 2oD, Canon Gee3, and Canon S7o, Fuji Eff30.

StephaneB said:

Would you prefer agnostic?

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Agnostics believe that there is ultimately no way to know if there is a god or a superman creator. That is a pretty sensible thought, actually, but I am not one of those. I am between an agnostic and what religious folk call atheist, if you will. I think that question needn't even be asked unless there is evidence or some logic that dictates or even implies there is actually a creator.

There may have been a reason in the Middle Ages and before. "What is that bright light that hides at night? Must be a God". We did away with all that by scientific inquiry, even before formal science got started, and by now, the evidence actually points to a very unintelligent design, if there is even a design to begin with, to the biological and cosmological evolution.

StephaneB said:

I can perfectly understand that a religious person could find my
condition of being non religious a pityful one. I don't agree, but
that does not mean I'm right.

Click to expand...

Relativism is all the rage it seems, even for people to whom it shouldn't be. "What is right?", right? Well, not really. There actually is logical, rational thought, and illogical, irrational thought. In this issue, there is no gray area. There is no mildly logical, or mildly rational. In this case, whoever can actually justifiy their beliefs with hard evidence or logical thought, is actually, factually right. And if one is right...

StephaneB said:

So, athiest has that meaning, literally 'without a god'. I am not
offended to be called that way.

Click to expand...

I am not offended either, only that I think it is rather presumptuous to invent a term assuming that everybody believes in your core beliefs ("there is a god in the first place") and then part from it. And worst of all, this is a term for people who actually don't subscribe to that. Imagine if astrologers went on the large-scale media and stated that everybody who don't belief in astrology should describe themselves as un-astrologers. How silly would that be? The same kind of non-offensive, but presumptuous silly, exactly.

Ordering online is really easy and tempting. I've got stuff I've never used.
--
Juli
http://www.pbase.com/julivalley/galleries
Canon FiveDee, Canon 2oD, Canon Gee3, and Canon S7o, Fuji Eff30.

saynomore said:

I am not offended either, only that I think it is rather
presumptuous to invent a term assuming that everybody believes in
your core beliefs ("there is a god in the first place") and then
part from it. And worst of all, this is a term for people who
actually don't subscribe to that. Imagine if astrologers went on
the large-scale media and stated that everybody who don't belief in
astrology should describe themselves as un-astrologers. How silly
would that be? The same kind of non-offensive, but presumptuous
silly, exactly.

Click to expand...

I get your point. Interesting. I have no answer, your reasoning is sound

I won't elaborate anymore. Although interesting, we are getting further and further away from photography

semorg said:

PicOne said:

So 7-day/24-hour stores by default offer better customer service
than those stores that don't? Interesting POV.

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I am not sure how and where you are constructing the above argument
from. Although you might be working for BH and in that case I can
see why you would try to change the argument.

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from your statement: "the fact is you can associate offering extended hours to greater customer service. That's it. "

semorg said:

Anyways, I am comparing a store vs itself. Meaning apples to
apples. The point is simple. Having extended hours vs. not having
one provides greater customer service.

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Well then.. you've missed the point that if B&H were open during their holidays, then that would mean that they had a change in ownership.. then all bets would be off as to what the customer service would be like.

You can't have it both ways.. you either like B&H's customer service that they have when they're open (which I feel stems from competent enough leadership/ownership); or you want the ownership to change hands to a party that does have the same religious beliefs.. with whatever commensurate changes in customer-relationship policies might (or might not) occur.

...including MY OWN! "Millennia", not "millenia".

saynomore said:

I agree with you wholeheartedly on pretty much everything else you
said. But some of us really take an issue with the word atheist. It
is something religious people would call us, as they assume there
is a god in the first place. Some of us don't make such rushed
assumptions.

Forrest said:

saynomore said:

I respect their devotion to their faith.

Click to expand...

I do, too, and I think, the fact that I'm an Athiest supporting
them in their expression of faith, says quite a lot. Not that I'm
against religion ... but I'm the last person you'd expect to be for
it.

The fact is B&H is about the most reputable, moral place you could
buy photography equipment from. Maybe that has something to do
with the fact that they really believe in their religion, maybe it
doesn't.

But being faithful followers of their religion is more important to
them than money, and in my personal experience, being good, honest
people means more to them than money or making a sale. I have
complete trust and confidence in them.

I don't care so much why this is, but I have a feeling them dealing
honestly with me is a symptom of the same thing that has them
closed for Saturday. When there are so many internet scam shops,
I'm GLAD to find someone who's lead by their moral compass instead
of the bottom line.

Plus, we have freedom of faith in America, and a shopkeep also has
freedom to run his shop as he sees fit. I support them in both.

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

Yes, very happy. First class in my opinion. There is a restocking fee but to me this virtually guarantees non-recycled returns. :> )

Good prices, quick delivery, fair treatment.
I buy most of my purchases from them.
--
Fred
60mm:
http://picasaweb.google.com/fwampler/Flowers1600Res
10-22:
http://picasaweb.google.com/fwampler/RoanFavorites

you're right.. paying a 20% premium is so out of my class.. i bought mine from dell thank you very much jimmy.. I see you're back bad mouthing me again, for no reason again... why.. I thought I put you in your place on the costco forum.. you never did reply.. i wont be here long jimmy don't worry.. this board is pathetic.. it's like a dying prosumer argument forum.. i'm not going to take on every conservative elder in the photo world..

--
Savage.

nt = no text

--
Pbase:
http://www.pbase.com/robotzer0

Comments are welcomed.

derfrelpmaw said:

Yes, very happy. First class in my opinion. There is a restocking
fee but to me this virtually guarantees non-recycled returns. :> )

Good prices, quick delivery, fair treatment.
I buy most of my purchases from them.

Click to expand...

Great...thanks for sharing!

derfrelpmaw said:

--
Fred
60mm:
http://picasaweb.google.com/fwampler/Flowers1600Res
10-22:
http://picasaweb.google.com/fwampler/RoanFavorites

Click to expand...

--
must watch: http://www.climatecrisis.net/
My Latest Gallery: From Peru to Chile: http://www.pbase.com/salim/peruchile2005

Forrest said:

Forrest41926 said:

It seems like they are becoming much less customer focused.
Success is not always the best teacher, and when it comes to
customer interface issues like the times when they are actually
accepting orders on their website - they seem to be much more
focused much more on their own convenience and holidays than they
are on what is ideal for their customers.

Click to expand...

Well it's not like B&H invented Yom Kippur or the concept of a
Sabbath; they just obey them. Occasionally that's been
inconvenient for me, too, but I do something radical: I wait for
them to reopen, and then I place my order.

The thing is, when I've dealt with them over the phone, no one has
ever lectured me in Yiddish about how I should find faith. I give
them the same respect; I don't expect them to abandon theirs just
for my money.

Being religious and being moral are two different things, and B&H
happens to be both. I happen to like the fact that the store puts
something above money. I ordered a macro lens once, and they sent
me two; returning one of them wasn't a hassle in the least. I'm
confident that if I ever have any trouble, they'll go miles out of
their way to make it right for me. Over the years, they've earned
my respect.

You should be happy to be doing business with somebody who doesn't
want your money enough to slit your throat for it. Sure, there are
plenty of other retailers that are open Saturday, and some of them
are honest folks, too. But the internet is filed with snakes in
the grass, when B&H are good honest folks, with good prices.

Click to expand...

I couldn't have said it better, and I really tried. They are good people that are great to deal with. No one has tried to convert me; if not for their vacation schedule, who would know? How refreshing.

I learned of them word of mouth:"Do yourself a favor, use B&H." That was three years ago. It was good advice. They have always been straight shooters with me. They stand by what they sell. It's a pleasure to use and recommend them.

Geoman said:

Robert 55 said:

Geoman said:

I HAVE a REAL QUESTION, what do people who follow the same faith
the owners of BH PHOTO do when they HAVE to work on a holiday or
weekend..

For example, could they be a wedding photographer? a Doctor, etc.

Someone who has to be on-call all the time.. esp a doctor.

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Click to expand...

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Hello,

I am not Orthodox but I am Jewish and do live in an Orthodox neighborhood and know and work with many Orthodox Jews.

Many Orthodox Jews plan their livelihood around their religious lives. As such, they avoid occupations that would require them to work on the Sabbath (sundown Friday to sundown Saturday). Also, if you are Orthodox you can not conduct commerce in any fashion, which includes allowing others to work in your business on ton the Sabbath or other holidays. Harder to do when you are in a community without very many who observe your faith, pretty easy to do if you are.

Also, many Jewish sects (not just the orthodox) do not get married on the Sabbath. Saturday night (after sundown) weddings are completely within proscription and quite common.

Even among the Orthodox, exception is made for emergencies (delivering a baby is an emergency, selling them a camera is not). Though most Orthodox doctors I know are not on call during the Sabbath.

this is a prime example of antisemitism...

smearedblue said:

it was a joke, relax. if anything it was compliment. my accountant
is jewish. they know their business
--

Savage.

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you prove how low your IQ is on a post by post basis

--
Harris

PBase/DPReview/NTF supporter
Egret Stalker #4, WSSA #29

http://www.pbase.com/backdoctor

I respect their religious beliefs and they rock. They are one of the only places I order from. I can order something and have it in three days and I live in California and this is just their normal shipping, now that is service.

When they are closed I just come back later and order, it really is not that difficult a concept to understand.

--
BeckyC
http://www.pbase.com/rjcollins

I literally just walked in the store yesterday. I've ordered from them in the past, but just moved to NYC. All I can say is WOW. I felt like I was in Candyland. I wanted to buy everything.