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f2.8 vs f4IS...

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TimeSpaceMotion said:
Pros and Cons?
Click to expand...
Pros for f2.8:
1 stop faster shutter speed
1 stop more DOF control
Get to use the f2.8 AF points
Can go up to a 2xTC (or 2 1.4s) before losing autofocus

Pros for f4IS:
IS is a very useful feature on long lenses
Lighter and smaller

I'm sticking by my story that I won't be purchasing any lenses over 35mm without IS. IS is that useful to me. I have the f2.8IS, by the way.

--
Lee Jay
(see profile for equipment)
 
--
Lee Jay
(see profile for equipment)
 
Talking about 24-70/2.8 (non IS) versus 24-105/4 IS

or

70-200/2.8 (non IS) versus 70-200/4 IS

In the last case I would suggest 70-200/2.8 IS

Did I say anything wrong?
 
I would go with the real stop of light, over a couple stops of handheld light. Remember, you can lower the shutter speed with IS, but you can't lower the speed of he action surroudnig the camera.

In the end, it depends on what you want to photograph.
--
'There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics.'
Benjamin Disraeli (1804-1881)
 
Lee Jay did a good summary below. With this said, I would look at what you are going to photograph...

People (or other moving items where you don't want blur) -- f/2.8 -- You will prefer the shutter speed over IS

Static Objects -- f/4L IS -- You can handhold shorter shutter speeds, have a lighter and more portable lens

IMO, the 70-200 f/2.8L IS is the perfect compromise! :)

BTW: I have the f/4L and the f/2.8L IS.
ljfinger said:
TimeSpaceMotion said:
Pros and Cons?
Click to expand...
Pros for f2.8:
1 stop faster shutter speed
1 stop more DOF control
Get to use the f2.8 AF points
Can go up to a 2xTC (or 2 1.4s) before losing autofocus

Pros for f4IS:
IS is a very useful feature on long lenses
Lighter and smaller

I'm sticking by my story that I won't be purchasing any lenses over
35mm without IS. IS is that useful to me. I have the f2.8IS, by
the way.

--
Lee Jay
(see profile for equipment)
Click to expand...
--
Brian
 
I think IS is worth it, even if it's only needed for 15% of your shots. However, if you need the shutter speed for capturing action indoors, no IS system will compensate for that; the f2.8 or faster is needed get a faster shutter speed.

That said, I've found that IS on the 70-200 and larger lenses to be quite useful for low light for capturing stills, like at a wedding or candid moment on stage. I even use IS on my 300/f2.8 and 400/f2.8 lenses for candids at gymnastics and swimming events as well as for panning shots. IS is great to have on a travel lens, like the 24-105/f4-IS.
 
How many more times do we have to put up with the same old question appearing on this forum, honestly, try doing a "Search" for this and you'll find God knows how many threads all asking the same thing. DON'T BE SO LAZY!

It feels like groundhog day as there's a new thread asking the same type of thing nearly every blo@dy day. Similarly annoying ones entitled, "24-105 vs. 17-55" "Which lens is sharpest" etc. etc. etc. Surely to goodness people, after this question has been asked soooo many times, why do you continue to answer. Granted some of you might not have answered before but you must surely all be aware of the number of times this has been asked.

Can we not all do ourselves a favour, refer the person to numerous posts by doing a simple search and let's free this forum of all the pointless clutter so that genuine points/questions can be addressed without the need to plough through all this repetition!
Rant over. No offense intended.
 
BTP said:
Lee Jay did a good summary below. With this said, I would look at
what you are going to photograph...
Click to expand...
Thanks.
BTP said:
People (or other moving items where you don't want blur) -- f/2.8
-- You will prefer the shutter speed over IS
Static Objects -- f/4L IS -- You can handhold shorter shutter
speeds, have a lighter and more portable lens
Click to expand...
This isn't always true. I'll give you an example.

Let's say the light requires ISO 800 1/80th at f4 or 1/160th at f2.8. Now, let's say you're shooting with a 1.6 crop body at 200mm. The 1/f rule says you'll need at least 1/320th. On the f2.8 lens, you'll need to go up to ISO 1600 just to freeze handshake while on the f4 IS lens, you can stay at ISO 800. If the subject motion can be frozen at 1/80th (as is often the case with people who are posing or just hanging aroung - not playing indoor soccer), the f4 lens with IS will win.

I have taken many people shots at 1/15th. In this case, IS will win over the 1 stop of light. In fact, anytime you can freeze subject motion at 1/2 of the 1/f rule or slower (1/160th at 200mm on a 1.6 crop camera, for example), the IS lens will win.

I especially find this important when using TCs. It's common to be able to freeze some pretty good motion at 1/200th. But at 400mm on 1.6 crop, I need more like 1/1000th to freeze my own motion without IS. With IS, 1/200th is easy at 400mm.

--
Lee Jay
(see profile for equipment)
 
ljfinger said:
BTP said:
Lee Jay did a good summary below. With this said, I would look at
what you are going to photograph...
Click to expand...
Thanks.
Lee Jay said:
People (or other moving items where you don't want blur) -- f/2.8
-- You will prefer the shutter speed over IS
Static Objects -- f/4L IS -- You can handhold shorter shutter
speeds, have a lighter and more portable lens
Click to expand...
This isn't always true. I'll give you an example.

Let's say the light requires ISO 800 1/80th at f4 or 1/160th at
f2.8. Now, let's say you're shooting with a 1.6 crop body at
200mm. The 1/f rule says you'll need at least 1/320th. On the
f2.8 lens, you'll need to go up to ISO 1600 just to freeze
handshake while on the f4 IS lens, you can stay at ISO 800. If the
subject motion can be frozen at 1/80th (as is often the case with
people who are posing or just hanging aroung - not playing indoor
soccer), the f4 lens with IS will win.

I have taken many people shots at 1/15th. In this case, IS will
win over the 1 stop of light. In fact, anytime you can freeze
subject motion at 1/2 of the 1/f rule or slower (1/160th at 200mm
on a 1.6 crop camera, for example), the IS lens will win.

I especially find this important when using TCs. It's common to be
able to freeze some pretty good motion at 1/200th. But at 400mm on
1.6 crop, I need more like 1/1000th to freeze my own motion without
IS. With IS, 1/200th is easy at 400mm.

--
Lee Jay
(see profile for equipment)
Click to expand...
Ok, I will buy your example to an extent although 1/80 is frequently too slow for many, if not most, people shots. People just like to move a little too much. Also, in real life, most people won't be shooting at 200mm on a 1.6 crop camera for a posed picture. This is normally a candid or action shot. You are finding the extreme example not the norm. Even in your example, you won't necessarily have the sharper picture of the person. You will have one with less noise though. For most things in life, there are exceptions to the rule. Thanks for providing this one. I will restate my first statement though, but I will slightly modify it, and say "most of the time".

--
Brian
 
BTP said:
Ok, I will buy your example to an extent although 1/80 is
frequently too slow for many, if not most, people shots. People
just like to move a little too much. Also, in real life, most
people won't be shooting at 200mm on a 1.6 crop camera for a posed
picture. This is normally a candid or action shot. You are finding
the extreme example not the norm. Even in your example, you won't
necessarily have the sharper picture of the person. You will have
one with less noise though. For most things in life, there are
exceptions to the rule. Thanks for providing this one. I will
restate my first statement though, but I will slightly modify it,
and say "most of the time".
Click to expand...
It's not an extreme example for me. For example, I was shooting a bride and groom saying their vows at 1/15th. Standing up there, they weren't moving too much. But I was at the back or side of the room shooting at 200mm on the 20D.

I often shoot candids of people at 1/15th to 1/80th and I often use 200-280mm to do so.

--
Lee Jay
(see profile for equipment)
 
ljfinger said:
BTP said:
Ok, I will buy your example to an extent although 1/80 is
frequently too slow for many, if not most, people shots. People
just like to move a little too much. Also, in real life, most
people won't be shooting at 200mm on a 1.6 crop camera for a posed
picture. This is normally a candid or action shot. You are finding
the extreme example not the norm. Even in your example, you won't
necessarily have the sharper picture of the person. You will have
one with less noise though. For most things in life, there are
exceptions to the rule. Thanks for providing this one. I will
restate my first statement though, but I will slightly modify it,
and say "most of the time".
Click to expand...
It's not an extreme example for me. For example, I was shooting a
bride and groom saying their vows at 1/15th. Standing up there,
they weren't moving too much. But I was at the back or side of the
room shooting at 200mm on the 20D.

I often shoot candids of people at 1/15th to 1/80th and I often use
200-280mm to do so.

--
Lee Jay
(see profile for equipment)
Click to expand...
I try to stay away from those pictures since you will frequently have motion blur. This is one of the cases that I prefer to crank up the ISO a little if needed for a better shutter speed.
--
Brian
 
Luna9 said:
I'm not sure if that's what you meant, but using a 2.8 lens does
activate the "high precision" AF point. Good reason for 2.8 right
there.
Click to expand...
Sound's good, but I haven't noticed any difference in focus accuracy or reliability between my 70-200/2.8L IS and the 24-105L or the 70-200+1.4. So I'm not really sure that "pro" works out in practice.

--
Lee Jay
(see profile for equipment)
 
BTP said:
I try to stay away from those pictures since you will frequently
have motion blur. This is one of the cases that I prefer to crank
up the ISO a little if needed for a better shutter speed.
Click to expand...
Me too, but a lot of times I'm already at 1600 or 3200.

I won't allow shutter speeds that low of people if I could crank up the ISO to prevent it.

--
Lee Jay
(see profile for equipment)
 
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