Is the local shop overcharging or is everyone else undercharging?

Hello,

I am looking to buy a 30D, and probably take advantage of the fall rebate stuff. I went to my local shop to make sure the rebate would work with a purchase there and see if I could pre-haggle on the price. Right now they have the body for a price of $1400. They say that will also come with $50 towards the purchase of a case. The shop also said that for $100 more they would give me a warranty that would cover a 1 time repair (the example they gave me was dropping the camera) over 3 years.

I brought up the subject of the better deals at beach camera and bhphotovideo.com to them. They claimed that anyone with cheaper deals than them are grey market and should not be trusted as far as warranties go. Now, I know that online sites will have better deals, and one reason I want to buy it here is that it is nice having local service for your camera. Yet, when beach camera has the 30d for 1273 with a memory card and all of the accessories is there a reason to stay with a local shop? In everyone else's experience have you needed the local shop to maintain the 30d?

As much as I am for the brick and mortar store and having someone to go to to drop off my camera if it needs warranty work, I am not sure if I can justify the difference in price. So I guess the question I am asking boils down to brick and mortar or go for the online?

Thanks

B&H is as reputable as they come.

--
Please don't let these beautiful animals die - they need help now!
http://www.wildlife-sanctuary.org

Even if you can't donate, please help spread the word.

First of all they are lying to you when they tell you that the online merchants are grey market -- they aren't. Not the reputable ones anyway. They are just trying to save the sale and personally I wouldn't buy from someone who lied to me to get my business. If I had a local camera shop and someone posed that question to me, I would be open and honest with them, telling them that those places buy in volumes I could never dream of and that is why they can sell cheaper. I would then go on to tell you the value of buying locally in case you need an exchange, service, post sales assistance, etc.

If you want to buy locally I would find a shop that won't lie to you about why they can't touch online prices. It's not their fault and there is definite value to buying locally.

--
Todd Walker...Canon TenD, Canon GThree, Canon EssDee500, Sony H2

http://www.toddwalker.net
http://www.pbase.com/twalker294
http://www.twphotography.net

I gave up on brick and mortar along time ago. I couldn't pay 20% for bad service and incompetent sales staff. I once had a salesman talk me out of a $700 purchase because he didn't want to pack up the studio lights. Some people think they should support their local economy but I say to heck with them if they can't be competitive.

--
James

Website-
http://home.comcast.net/~jhcampbell7905/

Rage, rage against the dying of the light.

B&H is a fantastic, reputable dealer. I often buy from them, and returned many items with no hassle. Your local shop is probably on its way out - as most are.

Yup, as has been said, B&H is as reputable as they come. If you buy USA warranty gear from them, it will be absolutely new, complete, and with US warranty card.

At least on lenses, B&H does do "grey" market, meaning that it's imported without a USA warranty. They clearly mark which version is which in their online store, however, and there's little chance for confusion. There's also nothing wrong with buying grey market - it's just a gamble on whether you think the savings is worth the risk of needing warranty service. At least with B&H, they make up for the lack of a Canon warranty by providing their own 1 year warranty. I've never had to use it, so I have no idea how good it is. From reputable dealers, the warranty should be the only difference (and maybe the default language a camera is set up for - I had to figure out how to get my D30 out of German years ago...). I buy about half and half, and so far it's paid off, but it's a personal decision based on your tolerance for risk.

I think the only reason to "need" the local shop for maintenance is if it's dead out of the box you can return it more easily. Otherwise it sounds like the kind of place that would give you a hard time if you came back in a couple of weeks thinking there was a problem. Other than DOA, they'll just send it out for service, which is what you'd have to do anyway if you bought online.

They tell you not to trust the online warranties, but that one they're trying to sell you for $100 sounds suspect too. It's not a Mack warranty, that's for sure. Run from that "deal".

I like the idea of having a reputable local shop within 20 minutes of my house, so I do buy there when I can. I don't think I would pay more than $100 over B&H, especially when I also have to pay 5% tax.

Mark

Todd Walker wrote:
If I

Todd Walker said:

had a local camera shop and someone posed that question to me, I
would be open and honest with them, telling them that those places
buy in volumes I could never dream of and that is why they can sell
cheaper. I would then go on to tell you the value of buying locally
in case you need an exchange, service, post sales assistance, etc.

If you want to buy locally I would find a shop that won't lie to
you about why they can't touch online prices. It's not their fault
and there is definite value to buying locally.

Click to expand...

I don't want to sound rude but if you were behide the counter and it was your only income and it ment suporting your family i bet you or other poeple in the same position would put down the online stores aswell.

I have been in the same position working for a major US camera chain and even when i know i buy from B&H & Adorama all the time, I regularly put them down when trying to make a sale because i have a family to support and kids to feed.
I no longer work for them but that is how it is when you are behind the counter.

Fox123 said:

Fox123 said:

had a local camera shop and someone posed that question to me, I
would be open and honest with them, telling them that those places
buy in volumes I could never dream of and that is why they can sell
cheaper. I would then go on to tell you the value of buying locally
in case you need an exchange, service, post sales assistance, etc.

If you want to buy locally I would find a shop that won't lie to
you about why they can't touch online prices. It's not their fault
and there is definite value to buying locally.

Click to expand...

I don't want to sound rude but if you were behide the counter and
it was your only income and it ment suporting your family i bet you
or other poeple in the same position would put down the online
stores aswell.
I have been in the same position working for a major US camera
chain and even when i know i buy from B&H & Adorama all the time, I
regularly put them down when trying to make a sale because i have a
family to support and kids to feed.
I no longer work for them but that is how it is when you are behind
the counter.

Click to expand...

so you deliberately lie to your customers?..nice.

Fox123 said:

Fox123 said:

had a local camera shop and someone posed that question to me, I
would be open and honest with them, telling them that those places
buy in volumes I could never dream of and that is why they can sell
cheaper. I would then go on to tell you the value of buying locally
in case you need an exchange, service, post sales assistance, etc.

If you want to buy locally I would find a shop that won't lie to
you about why they can't touch online prices. It's not their fault
and there is definite value to buying locally.

Click to expand...

I don't want to sound rude but if you were behide the counter and
it was your only income and it ment suporting your family i bet you
or other poeple in the same position would put down the online
stores aswell.
I have been in the same position working for a major US camera
chain and even when i know i buy from B&H & Adorama all the time, I
regularly put them down when trying to make a sale because i have a
family to support and kids to feed.
I no longer work for them but that is how it is when you are behind
the counter.

Click to expand...

As most of us learn early-on, somewhere between the ages of five and ten I imagine, lying always comes to a bad end, especially lying to someone with whom you want to have a relationship--no less so in business.

The problem, as we painfully learn, is that telling one lie invariably requires telling another, and another, etc., etc., and only the truth digs us out of the hole we've dug for ourselves.

Fox123 said:

I don't want to sound rude but if you were behide the counter and
it was your only income and it ment suporting your family i bet you
or other poeple in the same position would put down the online
stores aswell.

Click to expand...

No I wouldn't lie to customers. I have integrity. I worked as a sales person for a couple of years and I never once lied to any of my customers. That's what kept them coming back. With your attitude, no wonder the brick and mortars are going the way of the dodo.

Fox123 said:

I have been in the same position working for a major US camera
chain and even when i know i buy from B&H & Adorama all the time, I
regularly put them down when trying to make a sale because i have a
family to support and kids to feed.

Click to expand...

Then you are part of the problem.

Fox123 said:

I no longer work for them but that is how it is when you are behind
the counter.

Click to expand...

Not for everyone...hopefully.

--
Todd Walker...Canon TenD, Canon GThree, Canon EssDee500, Sony H2

http://www.toddwalker.net
http://www.pbase.com/twalker294
http://www.twphotography.net

Thanks for the responses,

I wouldn't say these guys are the only gig in town, but they are certainly one of the biggest. It was nice having them give lense recommendations and all of that when I was in the shop, but now that you guys have said they lied, who knows if they were giving me real advice or just selling me on their glass of choice.

Like I said in my original post, I am thinking I should jump on the double rebate that you get with the 30D and a lens. I told the camera shop that I was getting into automotive photography, and hope to take whatever camera I get to the mountains when I head up to ski. They gave me their recommendations on mid range lenses and let me know that the camera isnt weather sealed at all. So knowing that, and that I have been charged with taking some family photos for the holidays, is there anything off of the rebate list that would fit my needs?

I am sure I could also search for this, but have people consistantly had bad luck with the rebate program? Maybe I should skip it and not base my purchases on it at all.

Because they do not sell the volume that websites can. I was looking today for a TC-80N3 cable release, trying to find it locally since it is a 2 year reward at work for me. Only one camera store would even order it, at list price $200 and needed a 50% in-store down payment before even ordering it. Well I submitted my request to buy from B&H for $133.

The 30D's list price is $1400 so they are no overcharging you. If they charge you OVER list price and do not tell you, they are violating US Federal law.

Extra batteries will help in the cold weather, you can keep them warm with your body heat. Also, you can use a 30D outdoors even in snow, a little bit won't hurt the camera.

Hellashot said:

The 30D's list price is $1400 so they are no overcharging you. If
they charge you OVER list price and do not tell you, they are
violating US Federal law.

Click to expand...

What federal law would that be? A vendor can charge any price he wants for any item. If he can sell it at that price, so be it. MSRP stands for Manufacturer's SUGGESTED Retail Price. It's not a mandate of any kind -- just a suggestion.

Car dealers do it all the time. If a particular model comes out that will be available in limited numbers with high demand, they jack the price because they can. The upcoming Ford Mustang GT500 will be a perfect example. It will list for around $45,000 but there's no way in hell you'll be able to touch one for that price. It's called capitalism.

--
Todd Walker...Canon TenD, Canon GThree, Canon EssDee500, Sony H2

http://www.toddwalker.net
http://www.pbase.com/twalker294
http://www.twphotography.net

Your question reminded me of an experience I had several months ago with a local camera shop, one of a small chain of stores in my neck of the woods.

I had recently moved into the neighborhood and wanted to establish a relationship with a local camera store--for all the usual reasons. So I went in one afternoon and asked if they had a particular lens I was looking to buy, which I needed in a hurry for a trip I was about to take. The young salesman said they had the lens in stock, so I told him that I didn't have my credit cards with me, but I would return in the morning to buy the lens. He said that was fine.

The next morning I returned to buy the lens and the young man told me it had been sold. The manager called the other stores in the chair, but none of them had the lens in stock.

I told the manager I was disappointed that his salesman had failed to ask me for a deposit or made any mention that it was possible he wouldn't hold the lens for me, thus causing me a waste a lot of time that day trying to find a store that had the lens in stock.

The manager apologized--here's the bottom line--but since then, and it may not be reasonable on my part, I haven't had any confidence that I could trust the sales staff of that store to look out for my interests. So I've moved on to doing business with another store, one that's located a few miles away but has an excellent reputation for customer service.

One of the main reasons for buying from a local store would be that you have confidence in the store and its staff. You'd feel that you could ask them questions and get honest and accurate answers.

That sort of one-on-one help is what you'd get from a good local store that you would not expect the on-line mercants to be able to provide.

But since this store (or at least one of the people there) has either lied to you about B&H and other on-line stores, or they're amazingly ignorant (I tend to believe they lied), the store has now lost your confidence. Thus, there is little reason to shop there.

I'd be willing to pay a bit more to buy at a local store if I felt that the people there were honest and knowledgable.

But the fact is that most small stores have no way to buy in the volumes that the on-line merchants can, and their overhead is enormously higher. Thus, they cannot compete in price.

Despite what has been suggested by another poster in this thread, I know that I, as a customer, would be impressed with the candor of a salesman who just came right out and said:

"We can't meet the prices of these on-line stores because we have higher overhead and lower sales volume. So what you're getting when you buy from us is simply that we are here to help you, one-on-one with questions you have or small problems that we might be able to diagnose or resolve. So we hope you'll buy from us for the service help we can offer, but we certainly understand that you can find lower prices on-line."

That would impress me because if they told me what they told you, I'd know they were lying and that'd be an instant turn-off. I suspect that a lot of people would feel the same as I do. So that salesman is risking losing more sales and future business for the store than he might ever realize. People are not stupid. They can get on-line and ask. This salesman's lies are almost certain to be discovered by just about anyone he tells them to, so whether he knows it or not, I'll bet a lot of people never come back. And thus, he's lost that sale and all future business from virtually everyone he lies to like that.

B&H sells both "USA" and "Import" versions of many items. The USA versions are imported through official Canon USA channels and cost slightly more than the "Import" versions which are purchased outside those channels. The "import" goods are the same, but do not carry the USA warranty. Instead, they come with an equivalent warranty provided by B&H.

This is explained very explicitly on B&H's site and they are very up-front about it all, showing clearly the "USA" and "Import" products right together on the same page for comparison.

It's nice to have the option. I've bought some of each and had zero problems with any of it.

If you have a local store where the people are friendly, helpful, and honest, and they have the gear you want, I see no problem with paying slightly higher prices to pay for the extra level of help you might get - and you're supporting a local business too. But if the store is going to lie to you, then I'd pass. How could you trust any other advice you got there?

--
Jim H.

Todd Walker said:

those places buy in volumes I could never dream of and that is
why they can sell cheaper.

Click to expand...

No it isn't. Not even close to being the main reason. Volume price breaks in quasi-commodity markets (cameras, computer parts, electronics generally) are very small. We are talking a couple of cents in the dollar as a huge break, ranging down to fractions of a cent in the dollar as more normal.

The place on-line merchants save is labour: they don't have to pay someone to stand around in a shop and be nice to tyre-kickers all day. And the person they do pay to answer the phone can be on a much lower wage (who expects expertise from a call centre weenie?) and is able to deal with a much larger number of calls per day (because you can terminate a pointles phone onversation much faster than you can get rid of a time waster face to face).

Fox123 said:

Fox123 said:

had a local camera shop and someone posed that question to me, I
would be open and honest with them, telling them that those places
buy in volumes I could never dream of and that is why they can sell
cheaper. I would then go on to tell you the value of buying locally
in case you need an exchange, service, post sales assistance, etc.

If you want to buy locally I would find a shop that won't lie to
you about why they can't touch online prices. It's not their fault
and there is definite value to buying locally.

Click to expand...

I don't want to sound rude but if you were behide the counter and
it was your only income and it ment suporting your family i bet you
or other poeple in the same position would put down the online
stores aswell.
I have been in the same position working for a major US camera
chain and even when i know i buy from B&H & Adorama all the time, I
regularly put them down when trying to make a sale because i have a
family to support and kids to feed.
I no longer work for them but that is how it is when you are behind
the counter.

Click to expand...

I wouldn't set foot in your store again, and if I saw you working somewhere else I'd be sure to point out to the manager that you lie to make a sale. Dishonesty is NOT the best policy.

Some consumers may be gullible enough to believe your c*ap, but I would hope most aren't. Certainly nobody here would buy it. Are you a politician?

iMac said:

B&H is as reputable as they come.

Click to expand...

Thank you.

--
Henry Posner
B&H Photo-Video, Inc.