3:2 Picture mode??

Todd Sbarro

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Can someone tell me exactly what this mode is used for?? My best guess is panoramic shots since the LCD frame seems to get cropped that way when it is selected..

If that's not the case, what's the best way to take panoramic shots with the CP5000?

Thanks!
Todd
 
It's not for panoramic. It's a throwback to 35mm proportions that the camera manufacturers seem to feel that we still think in. It only uses less pixels and limits your use of the images afterwards. I recommend using the full pixel dimensions and making creative cropping decisions afterwards. For panoramic, just crop out the area you want to use. There are no rules. You make them up as you go.

Larry Berman
Can someone tell me exactly what this mode is used for?? My best
guess is panoramic shots since the LCD frame seems to get cropped
that way when it is selected..
If that's not the case, what's the best way to take panoramic
shots with the CP5000?
--Larry Berman http://BermanGraphics.com
 
It's not for panoramic. It's a throwback to 35mm proportions that
the camera manufacturers seem to feel that we still think in. It
only uses less pixels and limits your use of the images afterwards.
I recommend using the full pixel dimensions and making creative
cropping decisions afterwards. For panoramic, just crop out the
area you want to use. There are no rules. You make them up as you
go.

Larry Berman
Larry, Todd,

Here's a preview of some relevant info from the upcoming eBook chapter about the CP5000.

The reason 35mm is 2:3 aspect is due to the idea that two 3:4 aspect images butting on their long sides makes a 4:6 aspect result. Which is 2:3. No mystery there, but how did that become the basis?

The earliest movie films were all over the place with aspect ratio, but Edison and Eastman settled into the specs of 35mm movie film with a 3:4 aspect image. The rest (and this) is history.

Movies and HD like to talk about aspect ratio in the format of "X:1" so 2:3 is 1.5:1 for them, which is closer to the "ideal" HD aspect of 1.777:1... Movies are generally 1.85:1 these days.

Mostly, 2:3 is wider and many find this more pleasing than the boxy 3:4. Even the most common prints are 4x6 inches which is a perfect fit for 2:3 aspect.

I was surprised to find that the 5000 packs a surprisingly large extra number of 2:3 images on a card compared to the large-size regular 3:4 frames.

For instance: The camera predicts that a full-size Fine compression image will fill the 32 meg card with 13 images. Actual images of a reasonably normal scene is 20. In 2:3 mode, the camera predicts only 14 images and that certainly is reasonable in comparison. But the reality is that you can stuff 27-29 of these slightly trimmed shots into your memory card!

Only about 11% of the frame is cropped away from normal to 2:3 size. But you get 35-45% more shots. (!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!)

Odder still: at Normal compression, you get 72% MORE images in 3:2 compared to shooting full-size frames. Basic compression delivers an even higher percentage.

Other cameras with the Full-Size/2:3 option do NOT behave like this. Whatever is going on inside the 5000, it amounts to a very large file-size saving. On the same exact scene, the 2:3 can show as being 1,060,968 bytes while the full-size shot takes up 1,514,637 bytes. That's so big a difference that the forensics department needs to be alerted.

When inspected closely in an attempt to reveal fine differences in compression, noise, compromises or performance differences that could account for the strong file size change, none could be found. Here's a center crop at 100% from each. I've dropped it at low compression here so you can inspect it channel by channel, detail by detail yourself.



The implications of this are pretty heavy. For whatever reason, the 5000 will capture 2:3 images at a terrific quality in about the same space as a 3 megapixel shot on a 995.

Let's hope they don't "fix" this in Firmware V1.7...

-iNova
Can someone tell me exactly what this mode is used for?? My best
guess is panoramic shots since the LCD frame seems to get cropped
that way when it is selected..
If that's not the case, what's the best way to take panoramic
shots with the CP5000?
--
Larry Berman
http://BermanGraphics.com
-- http://www.digitalsecrets.net
 
Peter,

Any idea when you'll finish up the eBook with the CP 5000 chapter? I'm holding off buying the book until you've included the 5000.

Thanks--CP 5000
 
If, in general, you like 4x6 prints from your pictures instead of 4.5x6 prints, which don't fit in any photo book that I know of, this would be an easier way of doing it rather than having to crop each picture to have it printed.

If, however, you want them enlarged, you need to deal with 5x7 or 8x10 or 11x14 which all have different aspect ratios. And none of them are 3x4 ratio either. So somewhere along the line you will end up doing work. The idea of the 2x3 ratio is that you don't need to do work with 4x6 prints.

Tony
Can someone tell me exactly what this mode is used for?? My best
guess is panoramic shots since the LCD frame seems to get cropped
that way when it is selected..

If that's not the case, what's the best way to take panoramic
shots with the CP5000?

Thanks!
Todd
 
If, however, you want them enlarged, you need to deal with 5x7 or
8x10 or 11x14 which all have different aspect ratios. And none of
them are 3x4 ratio either. So somewhere along the line you will end
up doing work. The idea of the 2x3 ratio is that you don't need to
do work with 4x6 prints.

Tony
Can someone tell me exactly what this mode is used for?? My best
guess is panoramic shots since the LCD frame seems to get cropped
that way when it is selected..

If that's not the case, what's the best way to take panoramic
shots with the CP5000?

Thanks!
Todd
The 3:2 mode is also what you need if you use the slide copier. It saves a lot of croping then.
Bob
 
One place NOT to use the 3:2 mode is with the fisheye lense.
Your perfectly composed circular image will be cropped!
The 3:2 mode is also what you need if you use the slide copier. It
saves a lot of croping then.
Bob
 
The 3:2 mode is also what you need if you use the slide copier. It
saves a lot of croping then.
Bob
Incorrecto! The 5000 floats the fisheye well inside the boundaries of the frame and does not actually cut into the fisheye image in 2:3!

Which means... With the 5000 in full wide, the image is not larger than it is on a 990 or 995. It occupies about the same amount of pixel area. Of course, you can zoom a tad into the circular image, if you wish...

A reduced but not cropped 2:3 fisheye looks like this:



-iNova
 
Thanks Peter...
I made that statement based on my experiences with the CP 990
The 3:2 mode is also what you need if you use the slide copier. It
saves a lot of croping then.
Bob
Incorrecto! The 5000 floats the fisheye well inside the boundaries
of the frame and does not actually cut into the fisheye image in
2:3!

Which means... With the 5000 in full wide, the image is not larger
than it is on a 990 or 995. It occupies about the same amount of
pixel area. Of course, you can zoom a tad into the circular image,
if you wish...

A reduced but not cropped 2:3 fisheye looks like this:



-iNova
 
Peter;

I believe in fact that the ratio was a result of the fact that most 35mm movies had an 18 x 24 mm image. When Barnack developed the Leica, he came to the conclusion that a better image quality could be obtained by using a "double frame" size image. The 24 x 36 mm image on 35 mm film in 35mm cameras soon became the standard. It was not calculated for any reason in particular, but was just twice the size of what was the pretty accepted movie standard of the day.

As an aside, the 4 x 6 ratio is perfect for full frame shots on the current crop of dye-sub printers such as the Sony DPP-SV55 and DPP-SV77 if you are printing from the pc card.....no cropping.

Len
The reason 35mm is 2:3 aspect is due to the idea that two 3:4
aspect images butting on their long sides makes a 4:6 aspect
result. Which is 2:3. No mystery there, but how did that become the
basis?

The earliest movie films were all over the place with aspect ratio,
but Edison and Eastman settled into the specs of 35mm movie film
with a 3:4 aspect image. The rest (and this) is history.
 
Hi Peter,

I've been following this thread while on the road.

I wonder if the compression takes into effect the part of the frame that has been masked out. The solid black would lower the file size.

Just a thought....
Larry Berman
I was surprised to find that the 5000 packs a surprisingly large
extra number of 2:3 images on a card compared to the large-size
regular 3:4 frames.

For instance: The camera predicts that a full-size Fine compression
image will fill the 32 meg card with 13 images. Actual images of a
reasonably normal scene is 20. In 2:3 mode, the camera predicts
only 14 images and that certainly is reasonable in comparison. But
the reality is that you can stuff 27-29 of these slightly trimmed
shots into your memory card!
Odder still: at Normal compression, you get 72% MORE images in 3:2
compared to shooting full-size frames. Basic compression delivers
an even higher percentage.
--Larry Berman http://BermanGraphics.com
 
Sorry,
That's lower the file size and raise the compression.
Larry
I've been following this thread while on the road.
I wonder if the compression takes into effect the part of the frame
that has been masked out. The solid black would lower the file size.

Just a thought....
Larry Berman
I was surprised to find that the 5000 packs a surprisingly large
extra number of 2:3 images on a card compared to the large-size
regular 3:4 frames.

For instance: The camera predicts that a full-size Fine compression
image will fill the 32 meg card with 13 images. Actual images of a
reasonably normal scene is 20. In 2:3 mode, the camera predicts
only 14 images and that certainly is reasonable in comparison. But
the reality is that you can stuff 27-29 of these slightly trimmed
shots into your memory card!
Odder still: at Normal compression, you get 72% MORE images in 3:2
compared to shooting full-size frames. Basic compression delivers
an even higher percentage.
--
Larry Berman
http://BermanGraphics.com
--Larry Berman http://BermanGraphics.com
 
Try ArcSoft Panorama Maker 2000 software for pano shots. You can even do a 360.
Can someone tell me exactly what this mode is used for?? My best
guess is panoramic shots since the LCD frame seems to get cropped
that way when it is selected..

If that's not the case, what's the best way to take panoramic
shots with the CP5000?

Thanks!
Todd
 
This is the best thread in a long time. Fascinating! I will have to buy iNova's book!
Can someone tell me exactly what this mode is used for?? My best
guess is panoramic shots since the LCD frame seems to get cropped
that way when it is selected..

If that's not the case, what's the best way to take panoramic
shots with the CP5000?

Thanks!
Todd
 
Sorry,
That's lower the file size and raise the compression.
Larry
Actually, the image saved is made only of the pixels showing. The 2:3 frame is 2560 x 1710 pixels says the manual on page 75. That's odd. JPEG needs blocks of 8X8 pixels for best efficiency. And 1710 is NOT divisable by 8. 1712 would have been divisable by 16. A clue?

Nope. The manual is wrong. The actual image is 1704 pixels tall. And that's 213 x 8. The Sony F707 does grab them at 1712 pixels tall, BTW.

-iNova
I've been following this thread while on the road.
I wonder if the compression takes into effect the part of the frame
that has been masked out. The solid black would lower the file size.

Just a thought....
Larry Berman
I was surprised to find that the 5000 packs a surprisingly large
extra number of 2:3 images on a card compared to the large-size
regular 3:4 frames.

For instance: The camera predicts that a full-size Fine compression
image will fill the 32 meg card with 13 images. Actual images of a
reasonably normal scene is 20. In 2:3 mode, the camera predicts
only 14 images and that certainly is reasonable in comparison. But
the reality is that you can stuff 27-29 of these slightly trimmed
shots into your memory card!
Odder still: at Normal compression, you get 72% MORE images in 3:2
compared to shooting full-size frames. Basic compression delivers
an even higher percentage.
--
Larry Berman
http://BermanGraphics.com
--
Larry Berman
http://BermanGraphics.com
 
Thanks Peter...
I made that statement based on my experiences with the CP 990
I had the 990 for a year before knowing that the Fisheye 1 setting actually zoomed the optic out a tad to get the full circle. Sigh.

Notice that they still don't have the fisheye image perfectly centered? Same on the 950/990/995 and now 5000. I guess the tolerances must be pretty fierce with such small imaging chips and optical systems. Howzat?

-iNova
The 3:2 mode is also what you need if you use the slide copier. It
saves a lot of croping then.
Bob
Incorrecto! The 5000 floats the fisheye well inside the boundaries
of the frame and does not actually cut into the fisheye image in
2:3!

Which means... With the 5000 in full wide, the image is not larger
than it is on a 990 or 995. It occupies about the same amount of
pixel area. Of course, you can zoom a tad into the circular image,
if you wish...

A reduced but not cropped 2:3 fisheye looks like this:



-iNova
 
Are you saying that this image is not centered because of the
lense? Or is it due to the fact that it was not taken in the center
of the room, or that perhaps that the camera was angled rather than
looking straight up?

If this example is indeed what you mean by the image not being
centered I would hate to think that it is because of the lense.

Ken.
Ken,
What Peter was talking about was the black frame around the image
See how there is more at the top then there is at the bottom and
also from left to right...

This is what is ment by not centered...It seems all 9xx models
are prone to this problem also.

By the way Peter Great Book...
Im on my third re-read and learning
more and more each time...

Aloha,
shapeSHIFTER
 

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