Cost of *big guns*?

I checked with Canon Sweden before buying and they told me lenses are covered by a world-wide warranty (and that they would honour that and repair lenses if need be). You should check locally to make sure what the rules are where you live. My 500/4 also came from B&H with an international warranty card so I should be OK either way.

Camera bodies are on the other hand covered by a "continental warranty", i.e. my 1D Mark II that I bought from the US is not covered here, though I think it would be fine in Canada. I took a chance and I have luckily not had to have any warranty repairs done.

Darran said:

Hi, you've purchased from B&H. There are reasons I don't want to
use them, but if I had none of those problems with them, what sort
of warranty do the goods come with?

My Canon warranty cards for my lenses clearly have "European
Warranty" written on them and state "service must be performed by
one of the distributors which is affiliated to the Canon European
warranty or by a Canon authorized repair facility".

That looks OK for worldwide to me (Canon authorised repair facility
is in no way qualified in that clause). Does the US warranty have a
similarly global service statement written on it?
--
Darran

Click to expand...

--

• Anders @ http://www.andersostberg.com *

Canon sets a price suggestion. Most retailers follow suit.
The more they can stock on hand, the less they pay in receipt.
The margin of money that each makes is thin, anywhere from 5%-30%

In the age of the web, prices have come down very far since the middle man cannot hike it without standing out as a sore thumb.

Also, Most Manufactures save money by calling stores their distributors, cutting the middle man out in most cases except for the smaller markets, where a centralized (family) buys the bulk and redistribute as needed... I know that film in the US was run like that from talking to the family.

Manufacturers have huge overhead with the amount of money spent on R/D and tooling. New technologies come out all the time and unless they are truly going to lose market, there is little implementation of change. In the free world, it is the smaller upstarts that have fresh capitol that began making (digital) lenses, which forced the big guys to start working on the new designs in their R/D departments. Since Kodak makes monotone chips and Foveon makes the (new color capture chip), Manufacturers build around their design.
http://www.dpreview.com/news/0009/00091102foveon16mp.asp
http://www.foveon.com/files/Sigma_DP1.pdf

At the news release, some get sent back to the drawing board to fight for what can be termed; public (bickering) opinion over who is better in the market.
Manufacturers just build a body around the technology...

The consumer pays the price of all this and the little up-marketing to keep it fair in price wars with other manufacturers. This is where Minolta got out of the game, Perhaps Sinar as well...

--
I love photography
http://www.jpringlephoto.com

Darran said:

Look at petrol prices in the EU vs
the US... It's clear the oil companies expect us to subsidise the
US love of the stuff.

Click to expand...

It's your TAXES, genius. Tax revenue as a % of GDP is much higher in the EU than in the US. The EU is far more protectionist than the US. Plus, your rigid labor laws cause unemployment and your high taxes limit productivity. The EU is a case study in a failed socialist economic model. That's why things are inefficient.

--
Wildlife galleries
http://www.pbase.com/zeiler/

The American dream has its problems too...

Anyway, why don't we leave politics out of this, it only leads to hard words that convinces or converts no-one and eventually a deleted thread.

brianz said:

brianz112832 said:

Look at petrol prices in the EU vs
the US... It's clear the oil companies expect us to subsidise the
US love of the stuff.

Click to expand...

It's your TAXES, genius. Tax revenue as a % of GDP is much higher
in the EU than in the US. The EU is far more protectionist than
the US. Plus, your rigid labor laws cause unemployment and your
high taxes limit productivity. The EU is a case study in a failed
socialist economic model. That's why things are inefficient.

--
Wildlife galleries
http://www.pbase.com/zeiler/

Click to expand...

--

• Anders @ http://www.andersostberg.com *

Interesting explanation.

What is up-marketing?

This sentence ... 'this is where Minolta got out of the game ...', can you be more explicit?

Thanks.

--
-jts
http://www.pbase.com/jtsmall
Canon, Nikon and Olympus
equipment in profile

'From the first moment I handled my lens with a tender ardour.' Julia Margaret Cameron

Genius? Only comparitively I fear...
--
Darran

ComparAtively.
--
Darran

The meridian for the big three (SONY/ CANON/ KODAK) and others to play fair establishing an overhead limit for consumer dollars.

Sony purchased Minolta's camera division.
http://www.engadget.com/2006/03/31/farewell-konica-minolta-hello-sony/

Leica purchased Sinar.
http://www.imaging-resource.com/NEWS/1159333503.html

Glass is made of sand, pretty cheap.
You pay for the invented product...
--
I love photography
http://www.jpringlephoto.com

Thanks for your inputs, I haven't meant to start trade war between minor 400 mln people European market and major 290 mln people American one. I am constantly amazed how European (Australian, etc) consumers are being robbed not only by their politicians but mainly by Canon in comparison with American / Canadian consumers. Maybe it's time to bombard Canon Europe with requests concerning explanation of their price policy. They could have set prices on new lenses (EF 24-105/4.0 IS, EF-S 17-55/2.8 IS) on comparable level so why not to do the same with other, older lenses?

brianz said:

brianz112832 said:

Look at petrol prices in the EU vs
the US... It's clear the oil companies expect us to subsidise the
US love of the stuff.

Click to expand...

It's your TAXES, genius. Tax revenue as a % of GDP is much higher
in the EU than in the US. The EU is far more protectionist than
the US. Plus, your rigid labor laws cause unemployment and your
high taxes limit productivity. The EU is a case study in a failed
socialist economic model. That's why things are inefficient.

--
Wildlife galleries
http://www.pbase.com/zeiler/

Click to expand...

Ha Ha, you should be a comedian.

Really which branch of the Republicans do you work for.

Don't forget to tell them too how the US saved their @rse in the war either.

Sheesh

Let's face it, Canon is in the business to make money. A firm can maximize its profit by making the optimum quantity of its products based on the demand-price relationship and, of course, the marginal cost. Whenever price discrimination (used as a neutral term here) is feasible, it can also improve profits. It shouldn't surprise anyone that the demand-price curves are different between the U.S. and another country due to a variety of differences, such as income, tarriffs, etc. Canon's economists must have done their homework to come up with such a pricing policy.

Personally I think the Europeans enjoy shorter work hours, more vacation time, and greater social benefits (educational and medical). And if they don't like the higher prices of camera equipments, they can considering immigrating to the US of A. I see a lot of shaking heads.
--
WmLiu - NJ, USA
http://www.flickr.com/photos/wmliu

It's because of politics that Europeans pay more. As invasive and criminal as the US government is, European governments are even worse, regulating far more of their prole's lives than the "Evil Empire" west of the Atlantic. The US does more bombing, but EU does a heck of a lot more taxing. That money has to come from somewhere, and since in order to survive, companies have to pass these taxes on to their customers in the prices they charge, Europeans have to pay more for the things they buy.

A non-political answer to the question wouldn't answer the question.

I moved from San Diego to Sweden 18 years ago, and every morning I have to pinch myself to make sure it's not a dream. Southern California and the US are great, but the are so many fantastic things about Europe, the history, architecture and culture, less stress, no traffic, 5 weeks of vacation per year + 2 weeks of holidays, free health care, and my favourite benefit a beautiful Swedish wife! I have no problems with higher prices and taxes, I couldn't afford my current lifestyle in the US...



--
http://www.pbase.com/kingfisher/

If I buy L-grade optics in Norway, I would normally be entitled to having it fixed if it breaks over the next 5 years (i.e. if it fails due to quality, not abuse ). That is a bit more than the 1-year Canon warranty - and I would be prepared to pay a bit more (must cost canon quite a bit more too...)

denisb said:

I think, Canon know that Europeen will paid for local services and
will buy local, and know now that Canada people doesn't care. Your
country it's not a jail, you can do what you want with the money
you earn. Canon think that your country is a jail, and you are
forced to buy locally.

Click to expand...

OK I lived five years in the States before I moved back to my native Norway in 2003, so I have some insight from both worlds.

Prices in the US are shown without Sales Tax, which is not the same as VAT, but to the end user it makes no difference. In the US, this varies from state to state and from county to county, even, but is commonlcy around 7-8%. If you buy something in one state and have it shipped to a state where the retailer has no facitily, you pay no sales tax. So, add Sweden's 25% VAT to your SEK 38000 and you are already at SEK 47500.

A US employer will in most cases pay health insurance and a few other benefits. In any case that's NOTHING compared to the whopping 33% payroll tax every Swedish employer has to pay the government on all salaries and benefits to employees. In the end of the day, the customers will have to pick up that tab.

I am not that familiar with the salary structures in Sweden, but in Norway a low-income job means $35-40K/year, whereas in the US you find full time workers getting paid $15K. Now add that cost of labor to the whole equation, plus the 33% and then factor in how the Swedish distributor moves WAY lower volumes too feed its market of nine million people and consequently deals with higher wholesale prices and needs to take a bigger cut than Canon USA.

Finally, one comment on Brianz's theory on taxes and GPD/efficiency. Let med deflate that effectively by informing him that I live in the highest taxed country in Europe, which at the same time sports a higher per capita GDP than the US.

It is generally the middlemen who drive up the price of goods. Canon Australia runs as a separate entity and has to buy the gear from Canon Japan. They add a hefty markup to cover profits, overheads, warranty repairs, etc, etc. Although not the case with Canon, often there is another wholesaler in between which will add its 20+%. Of course the retailer has to make a profit as well and the government wants its GST.

Some time ago I looked at the cost of pharmaceutical production. In this case a particular drug was sold by the manufacturer to the wholesaler for $7.60. By the time it reached the consumer the cost was over $30. The manufacturer made the least amount of margin and the retailer the largest amount.
--

Also in UK (suspect same in most of Europe) planning permission to build property (either commercial or domestic) is relatively very difficult to get v. US (we are a very crowded island which doesn't help but government limits hugely where we can build) and property taxes for businesses are much more in UK than US so the cost of running a shop is far more and the retailer has to cover those costs with their sales.

Although Westerrn Europe has larger population than US don't forget it's very fragmented with c. 20 countries accounting for the 400 m population with c. 20 languages, 20 legal systems, 20 tax systems whereas US is mostly 1 language, and there are differences in law and tax across the states but not generally as big differences as in Europe.

Whether the high tax European model, where tertiary education and medical costs are largely paid for by the tax payers, is better than the low tax US model where you pay for those things yourself is open to debate (have experience of both and neither's perfect).

However don't think the continental European model is sustainable given the increasingly open, cheaper and less regulated markets around the world so fat pensions, salaries, huge job protection and long holidays unlikely to continue long term, especially with ageing populatiions - look at the many millions unemployed in France and Germany for over 10 years now - can only get worse probably. Politicians don't care - they award themselves bigger and bigger pensions/salaries/expenses paid for by you and me - and there's more and more of them in UK (parliaments for Wales, Scotland, N Ireland plus lots of v. expensive members of and commissioners in European parliament, none of which existed 30+ years ago for us) with as many MP's in Westminster as ever - do we need this much - do we get any real say so????? We could all afford Canon FF DLSRs or better if we weren't paying for all this and wouldn't be wasting our time here trying to stretch our meagre resources!

Bottom line, any company is going to take of the Money.

If the Money is in the EU, then guess where Canon is going to make sure it's products are priced so they sell, and sell well.

EU may actually outnumber the US but the US probably buys the greater numbers of Canon products, so the US gets the better prices.

--
Dave Patterson
---------------------
Midwestshutterbug.com
----------------------------------
'When the light and composition are strong, nobody
notices things like resolution or pincushion distortion'
Gary Friedman

B&H generally sells both a USA warranty and and what they call an Import Model. Buy the import model adn it should be international warranty, just like what you buy locally.

--
Dave Patterson
---------------------
Midwestshutterbug.com
----------------------------------
'When the light and composition are strong, nobody
notices things like resolution or pincushion distortion'
Gary Friedman

...higher business costs, import fees, and a whole bunch of other stuff, it should be no surprise. In the USA and other countries, the stuff comes in with very little 'baggage' in terms of extra fees.