Learning curve - D30 to 1D

I have to get a digital SLR to in order to meet the work flow requirements of a new assignment. I have never used a digital camera, SLR or otherwise, but based on the heavy demands of the client, I suspect only a 1D will ultimately meet my needs. However, since I know nothing about the operation of a digital camera, I'm thinking of getting a D30 to learn with. (I've probably got about 2 months before the work gets silly.)

So, my question to the lucky few who are currently using the 1D is this. How much of what I learn using the D30 is transferable to the 1D, both in terms of basic digital photography (setting white points, establishing color profiles, etc.) and in managing the work flow (dumping files from the camera to a computer, editing of images, yadda, yadda, yadda)?

Ultimately I will have to have two cameras, and the D30 (from all I have learned lurking here the last two months) will certainly meet my image quality requirements as a back up. Given that I can probably get my hands on one immediately I'm hoping that I can learn with it while I'm waiting to find a 1D. Or, are they so different that I should put on a full court press to find a 1D immediately? This has nothing to do with shooting sports or photojournalism, so the slower frame rate and low light focusing problems of the D30 are not an issue.

I love the excitement of embracing this new and maturing technology, but I am terrified of living with the possibility of catastrophic failure. Boy, I hate that I am so late to the dance.

FYI, I just received the promotional material Canon has been sending out promoting the 1D, and noticed most of the promo shots in the brochure were shot with an ISO of 100. What's up with that? I thought that was not a Canon recommended ISO for best image quality on the 1D(?).

John Fisher
-- http://www.johnfisher.com

John Fisher said:

this. How much of what I learn using the D30 is transferable to the
1D, both in terms of basic digital photography (setting white
points, establishing color profiles, etc.) and in managing the work
flow (dumping files from the camera to a computer, editing of
images, yadda, yadda, yadda)?

Click to expand...

Most of it will carry over quite well. There are small details which are different like the tons of custom and personal functions in the 1D and a difference in the way the digital user interface works between the D30 and 1D but it's no big deal. Otherwise, nearly all the basic concepts are the same.

Christian Behr said:

Ultimately I will have to have two cameras, and the D30 (from all I
have learned lurking here the last two months) will certainly meet
my image quality requirements as a back up. Given that I can
probably get my hands on one immediately I'm hoping that I can
learn with it while I'm waiting to find a 1D. Or, are they so
different that I should put on a full court press to find a 1D
immediately? This has nothing to do with shooting sports or
photojournalism, so the slower frame rate and low light focusing
problems of the D30 are not an issue.

Click to expand...

Which raises the question, why not just get the D30 and skip the 1D altogether?

I think unless you need 8fps or a waterproof camera the 1D is overkill. Not to mention you can get two D30s for the price of one 1D.

I would also take a look at the rumors flying about on the D30 replacement. Who can say for sure with rumors, but it's quite possible that a better camera than the D30 will be available soon for not much more money.

Christian Behr said:

FYI, I just received the promotional material Canon has been
sending out promoting the 1D, and noticed most of the promo shots
in the brochure were shot with an ISO of 100. What's up with that?
I thought that was not a Canon recommended ISO for best image
quality on the 1D(?).

Click to expand...

I haven't seen any banding in ISO 100 images (and that's the ONLY speed where I haven't seen banding). No doubt Canon's sample images are either ISO 100 or shot high-key for a good reason. ;-O

I got my 1D for two days. Yes, I need time to adjust even though I am using the 1V for film. However, D30 and 1D are two different world like a pistol and a machine gun. 1D is heavier and well built. Supposingly, I can kill the enemy easily due to its terrible speed. Although I got a 1V, I have never tried to shoot at the full speed (I mean has film loaded) and will not know the accuracy and speed of its AF. Now I know why it is the Canon top camera. I have no regret to get mine although I spend a lot of my bullets(ie money).

Al Goldis said:

John Fisher said:

this. How much of what I learn using the D30 is transferable to the
1D, both in terms of basic digital photography (setting white
points, establishing color profiles, etc.) and in managing the work
flow (dumping files from the camera to a computer, editing of
images, yadda, yadda, yadda)?

Click to expand...

Most of it will carry over quite well. There are small details
which are different like the tons of custom and personal functions
in the 1D and a difference in the way the digital user interface
works between the D30 and 1D but it's no big deal. Otherwise,
nearly all the basic concepts are the same.

Al Goldis said:

Ultimately I will have to have two cameras, and the D30 (from all I
have learned lurking here the last two months) will certainly meet
my image quality requirements as a back up. Given that I can
probably get my hands on one immediately I'm hoping that I can
learn with it while I'm waiting to find a 1D. Or, are they so
different that I should put on a full court press to find a 1D
immediately? This has nothing to do with shooting sports or
photojournalism, so the slower frame rate and low light focusing
problems of the D30 are not an issue.

Click to expand...

Which raises the question, why not just get the D30 and skip the 1D
altogether?

I think unless you need 8fps or a waterproof camera the 1D is
overkill. Not to mention you can get two D30s for the price of one
1D.

I would also take a look at the rumors flying about on the D30
replacement. Who can say for sure with rumors, but it's quite
possible that a better camera than the D30 will be available soon
for not much more money.

Al Goldis said:

FYI, I just received the promotional material Canon has been
sending out promoting the 1D, and noticed most of the promo shots
in the brochure were shot with an ISO of 100. What's up with that?
I thought that was not a Canon recommended ISO for best image
quality on the 1D(?).

Click to expand...

I haven't seen any banding in ISO 100 images (and that's the ONLY
speed where I haven't seen banding). No doubt Canon's sample
images are either ISO 100 or shot high-key for a good reason. ;-O

Click to expand...

Al Goldis said:

Which raises the question, why not just get the D30 and skip the 1D
altogether?

Click to expand...

Good question, one answer is build quality. On occasion I shoot the equivilant of a lot (a lot!) of rolls of film per month, and I question the stamina of the D30. In a pinch, I have no problem believing the D30 can perform reliably as a back up, but I rely on a 1v as a primary instead of an Elan film camera for the same reasons. Second is the metering/focus system issues. I work very fast, and I have come to rely on those incamera funtions over the last two years (and that took some doing!)

Al Goldis said:

I would also take a look at the rumors flying about on the D30
replacement. Who can say for sure with rumors, but it's quite
possible that a better camera than the D30 will be available soon
for not much more money.

Click to expand...

Yeah, no one has followed these discussions with more attention than I have. But the simple fact is that the new camera is not available, and will probably not be available as a production camera for many months. If history is a guide with Canon, the new camera will be terrific, but I simply do not have the time to wait. If Canon brings to the table a camera which has the same relationship to the 1D as the EOS 3 had to the EOS 1n/1v series (and I suspect they will) it would probably meet my needs.

Al Goldis said:

I haven't seen any banding in ISO 100 images (and that's the ONLY
speed where I haven't seen banding). No doubt Canon's sample
images are either ISO 100 or shot high-key for a good reason. ;-O

Click to expand...

Meaning no disrespect to those who have evaluated the 1D, from what I have seen the "banding issue" seems a little over blown. It looks like the equivilant of the the old discussions of digital music cd's lacking the "warmth" of analog records (yes, I am that old, I own records! LOL). But hey, ya gotta talk about something, or you might as well close the Nikon forums down for good. One thing is for sure, given all the new digital slr's that are coming out, I'm glad I don't have a lot of stock in film processing labs!

Thanks for the input, Al, now to find that Canoga Cameras phone number.......
--John FisherMiami, Florida http://www.johnfisher.com

John Fisher said:

Al Goldis said:

Which raises the question, why not just get the D30 and skip the 1D
altogether?

Click to expand...

Good question, one answer is build quality. On occasion I shoot the
equivilant of a lot (a lot!) of rolls of film per month, and I
question the stamina of the D30. In a pinch, I have no problem
believing the D30 can perform reliably as a back up, but I rely on
a 1v as a primary instead of an Elan film camera for the same
reasons. Second is the metering/focus system issues. I work very
fast, and I have come to rely on those incamera funtions over the
last two years (and that took some doing!)

Christian Behr said:

I would also take a look at the rumors flying about on the D30
replacement. Who can say for sure with rumors, but it's quite
possible that a better camera than the D30 will be available soon
for not much more money.

Click to expand...

Yeah, no one has followed these discussions with more attention
than I have. But the simple fact is that the new camera is not
available, and will probably not be available as a production
camera for many months. If history is a guide with Canon, the new
camera will be terrific, but I simply do not have the time to wait.
If Canon brings to the table a camera which has the same
relationship to the 1D as the EOS 3 had to the EOS 1n/1v series
(and I suspect they will) it would probably meet my needs.

Christian Behr said:

I haven't seen any banding in ISO 100 images (and that's the ONLY
speed where I haven't seen banding). No doubt Canon's sample
images are either ISO 100 or shot high-key for a good reason. ;-O

Click to expand...

Meaning no disrespect to those who have evaluated the 1D, from what
I have seen the "banding issue" seems a little over blown. It looks
like the equivilant of the the old discussions of digital music
cd's lacking the "warmth" of analog records (yes, I am that old, I
own records! LOL). But hey, ya gotta talk about something, or you
might as well close the Nikon forums down for good. One thing is
for sure, given all the new digital slr's that are coming out, I'm
glad I don't have a lot of stock in film processing labs!

Thanks for the input, Al, now to find that Canoga Cameras phone
number.......

--
John FisherMiami, Florida http://www.johnfisher.com

Click to expand...

The 1d is a great camera. I've had mine for almost a month now and it's still amazing me. By the way "Vinyl still sounds better!" But I like digital photography better than film!

My backup-body system is for sale. Includes full original US camera kit, BG, extra battery, 340GB MicroDrive, and 2 aftermarket straps. E-mail me if you're interested.
--I love my D30s!

John Fisher said:

Al Goldis said:

Which raises the question, why not just get the D30 and skip the 1D
altogether?

Click to expand...

Good question, one answer is build quality. On occasion I shoot the
equivilant of a lot (a lot!) of rolls of film per month, and I
question the stamina of the D30. In a pinch, I have no problem
believing the D30 can perform reliably as a back up, but I rely on
a 1v as a primary instead of an Elan film camera for the same
reasons. Second is the metering/focus system issues. I work very
fast, and I have come to rely on those incamera funtions over the
last two years (and that took some doing!)

Click to expand...

Good reasons!

However, I think you will be pleasantly surprised by the D30's stamina. There are a lot of people who work them very hard and they take it well. I'm sure they don't hold up to knocking around as well as the 1D though.

Christian Behr said:

Meaning no disrespect to those who have evaluated the 1D, from what
I have seen the "banding issue" seems a little over blown. It looks
like the equivilant of the the old discussions of digital music
cd's lacking the "warmth" of analog records (yes, I am that old, I

Click to expand...

I happen to disagree but we're all entitled to our opinions.

If you want to use the CD analogy, I would liken it to an intermittent pop or clicking noise. Some distortion (photographic noise) is to be expected, but it blends in and is subtle. The pops and clicks just seem out of place.

John Fisher said:

Al Goldis said:

Which raises the question, why not just get the D30 and skip the 1D
altogether?

Click to expand...

Good question, one answer is build quality. On occasion I shoot the
equivilant of a lot (a lot!) of rolls of film per month, and I
question the stamina of the D30. In a pinch, I have no problem
believing the D30 can perform reliably as a back up, but I rely on
a 1v as a primary instead of an Elan film camera for the same
reasons. Second is the metering/focus system issues. I work very
fast, and I have come to rely on those incamera funtions over the
last two years (and that took some doing!)

Click to expand...

The D30 is fine for what it is...however two technical items need to be discussed:
1)autofocus - speed and light levels
2)color balance -

1)With the auto focus you mentioned Elan7 Eos 1v and so-on. One of the major differences in the EOS series cameras is the number of focus elements which are active 'at lower light levels'. All the Canons can manage auto focus in daylight with the various lenses but when you get into the lower light and/or lowlight with the camera turned to vertical; there are some major differences... I'm sure the D30 is a lower performer in this area than a EOS-1D. Ie. there are NO lowlight pixels active on a vertical oriented shot and only One lowlight pixel active with horizontal on the cheaper (Rebel 2000, Elan, (D30?).

2)Color balance may be interesting between the two (d30 and 1D) as there is two years difference in the color technology... there are also two different imagers involved cmos vs CCD, and differences with the download interpretation of colors. The human eye is very sensitive to minor changes of color rendition... I forsee a lot of work trying to conform two entirely different color systems to look alike if they were used on the same shots. One might generate a workflow where one camera did the color and the other did BW or hi-speed lowlight, etc..

Christian Behr said:

Christian Behr said:

I would also take a look at the rumors flying about on the D30
replacement. Who can say for sure with rumors, but it's quite
possible that a better camera than the D30 will be available soon
for not much more money.

Click to expand...

Yeah, no one has followed these discussions with more attention
than I have. But the simple fact is that the new camera is not
available, and will probably not be available as a production
camera for many months. If history is a guide with Canon, the new
camera will be terrific, but I simply do not have the time to wait.
If Canon brings to the table a camera which has the same
relationship to the 1D as the EOS 3 had to the EOS 1n/1v series
(and I suspect they will) it would probably meet my needs.

Christian Behr said:

I haven't seen any banding in ISO 100 images (and that's the ONLY
speed where I haven't seen banding). No doubt Canon's sample
images are either ISO 100 or shot high-key for a good reason. ;-O

Click to expand...

Meaning no disrespect to those who have evaluated the 1D, from what
I have seen the "banding issue" seems a little over blown. It looks
like the equivilant of the the old discussions of digital music
cd's lacking the "warmth" of analog records (yes, I am that old, I
own records! LOL). But hey, ya gotta talk about something, or you
might as well close the Nikon forums down for good. One thing is
for sure, given all the new digital slr's that are coming out, I'm
glad I don't have a lot of stock in film processing labs!

Thanks for the input, Al, now to find that Canoga Cameras phone
number.......

--
John FisherMiami, Florida http://www.johnfisher.com

Click to expand...

Stuart20831 said:

2)Color balance may be interesting between the two (d30 and 1D) as
there is two years difference in the color technology... there are
also two different imagers involved cmos vs CCD, and differences
with the download interpretation of colors. The human eye is very
sensitive to minor changes of color rendition... I forsee a lot of
work trying to conform two entirely different color systems to look
alike if they were used on the same shots. One might generate a
workflow where one camera did the color and the other did BW or
hi-speed lowlight, etc..

Click to expand...

Yeah, this is an area where I anticipate some problems. My intention is to use one camera for all of the work (hence the interest in the more robust 1D), while the D30 will act as a fail safe.

I've reread Phil's review of the D30 and to be honest I'm now pretty excited about getting started with one. I shot professionally for a long time with an F1n (switching to the EOS system only two years ago), so I guess some of the metering and auto focus issues are not as frightening to me (particularly since I noticed the D30 also has a diopter adjustment!).

Canon makes some points in their new promotional material about the convergence of other technologies (very high speed computer processors, cd writers, inexpensive hugh hard drives, terrific ink jet printers, etc.) which has provided an attractive environment for the developement of professional digital cameras. We indeed live in interesting (and exciting) times. I know more than one professional in my area who tried digital, went away from it not because of the camera capabilities, but because of work flow problems. Many of these guys are rethinking their decision, a fertile ground for any new digital SLR's Canon wants to introduce.--John FisherMiami, Florida http://www.johnfisher.com