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Comparing s6500 with Panasonic fz50

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Hin Man said:
Path #1
  • fuji f30/f20
  • 3 to 6 months
  • Pentax K100D + lens kit
Path #2
  • fuji s6000fd/s6500
  • one year later
  • Pentax K10D + lens kit (or K100D subject to price drop and reviews)
Click to expand...
Having had digital compact E550, currently using dSLR-like S5600 and considering real dSLR was much in the same boat. Was, because I have made up my mind already.

Have you had dSLR(-like) before? If not AND if you're really certain about going dSLR route anyway, then I suggest you get one dSLR-like as cheap as you can, shoot few thousand pics with it, carry it everywhere with you as often as you can AND then make up your mind wich dSLR you really need. Trust me, if you come straight from compact body may not appreciate or notice things which are important for "real" body. For example - how big can the body be in order to fit in your favourite bag? If all you have had is compact, you're just guessing. I, having carried my S5600 around for some time, only now can estimate which dSLR I would like to have. How big/small it has to be, which body would be comfortable for me, etc. For example, I now can say that Canon 350D handle is way too small and uncomfortable for me so I can rule that cam straight out. I wouldn't have known if I hadn't been using S5600. I also know now whether I would actually bother to carry dSLR with me when just strolling around in the city or not (yes, I would, but I couldn't have known it before).

So my advice is to get cheap dSLR-like, use if for a while and then go for real dSLR, depending on your budget. You may skip the ergonomics lessons, get another compact and then go straight to dSLR but I personally value greatly the time I spend with my S5600, even knowing that I'll be "upgrading" to dSLR at some point. If you're getting dSLR for sure then you might want to save the money for that and opt for cheaper transitional camera. You'll be paying left and right for lenses, flashes, filters and whatnot after you get dSLR, so you might just want to consider that too.
 
Great counsel. Good insights, particularly in the area of "feel," ergonomics, or whatever you want to call it. A matter of allmighty importance in any tool, whether it's in the kitchen, in the shop, or in the field.
aabram said:
Having had digital compact E550, currently using dSLR-like S5600
and considering real dSLR was much in the same boat. Was, because I
have made up my mind already.

Have you had dSLR(-like) before? If not AND if you're really
certain about going dSLR route anyway, then I suggest you get one
dSLR-like as cheap as you can, shoot few thousand pics with it,
carry it everywhere with you as often as you can AND then make up
your mind wich dSLR you really need. Trust me, if you come straight
from compact body may not appreciate or notice things which are
important for "real" body. For example - how big can the body be in
order to fit in your favourite bag? If all you have had is compact,
you're just guessing. I, having carried my S5600 around for some
time, only now can estimate which dSLR I would like to have. How
big/small it has to be, which body would be comfortable for me,
etc. For example, I now can say that Canon 350D handle is way too
small and uncomfortable for me so I can rule that cam straight out.
I wouldn't have known if I hadn't been using S5600. I also know now
whether I would actually bother to carry dSLR with me when just
strolling around in the city or not (yes, I would, but I couldn't
have known it before).

So my advice is to get cheap dSLR-like, use if for a while and then
go for real dSLR, depending on your budget. You may skip the
ergonomics lessons, get another compact and then go straight to
dSLR but I personally value greatly the time I spend with my S5600,
even knowing that I'll be "upgrading" to dSLR at some point. If
you're getting dSLR for sure then you might want to save the money
for that and opt for cheaper transitional camera. You'll be paying
left and right for lenses, flashes, filters and whatnot after you
get dSLR, so you might just want to consider that too.
Click to expand...
--
Tim
 
aabram said:
aabram said:
Path #1
  • fuji f30/f20
  • 3 to 6 months
  • Pentax K100D + lens kit
Path #2
  • fuji s6000fd/s6500
  • one year later
  • Pentax K10D + lens kit (or K100D subject to price drop and reviews)
Click to expand...
Having had digital compact E550, currently using dSLR-like S5600
and considering real dSLR was much in the same boat. Was, because I
have made up my mind already.

Have you had dSLR(-like) before? If not AND if you're really
certain about going dSLR route anyway, then I suggest you get one
dSLR-like as cheap as you can, shoot few thousand pics with it,
carry it everywhere with you as often as you can AND then make up
your mind wich dSLR you really need. Trust me, if you come straight
from compact body may not appreciate or notice things which are
important for "real" body. For example - how big can the body be in
order to fit in your favourite bag? If all you have had is compact,
you're just guessing. I, having carried my S5600 around for some
time, only now can estimate which dSLR I would like to have. How
big/small it has to be, which body would be comfortable for me,
etc. For example, I now can say that Canon 350D handle is way too
small and uncomfortable for me so I can rule that cam straight out.
I wouldn't have known if I hadn't been using S5600. I also know now
whether I would actually bother to carry dSLR with me when just
strolling around in the city or not (yes, I would, but I couldn't
have known it before).

So my advice is to get cheap dSLR-like, use if for a while and then
go for real dSLR, depending on your budget. You may skip the
ergonomics lessons, get another compact and then go straight to
dSLR but I personally value greatly the time I spend with my S5600,
even knowing that I'll be "upgrading" to dSLR at some point. If
you're getting dSLR for sure then you might want to save the money
for that and opt for cheaper transitional camera. You'll be paying
left and right for lenses, flashes, filters and whatnot after you
get dSLR, so you might just want to consider that too.
Click to expand...
Absolutely great insights. I can't ask for more. I am agreeing with you 101%. I also rule out Canon 350D after trying it out in store and I borrowed it for few hours of use from other. I am sure it is very capable camera but I prefer the ergonmics, build, overall features in Pentax and Nikon. For others, I tried Pentax DL, the cheapest model I can find in store with Circuit City a couple of times and I am in love of the ergonomics, the one thing that holds me back is the slower auto focus and 3 focal points comparing to Nikon D50. And hence my current quest on Pentax K100D.

The sole reason why I am interested in Fuji s6500/s6000 is due to 'face detection' and 'lowlight photography' and picture qualities that I see from my 'contacts' in Flickr that I truely admire every single day. One of my contact uses fuji s7000 and the other uses fuji s5200 -- both give fantastic results

Contact on fuji s5200 -- her most favored photoset
http://www.flickr.com/photos/ginnia64/sets/72157594199507149/detail/

Contact on fuji 7000 -- his most favored photoset
http://www.flickr.com/photos/robspages/sets/72157594290042711/detail/

Sincerely thanks,
Hin

--
http://hintheman.blogspot.com/
http://techtheman.blogspot.com/
 
Hi Bob,

Your comment is very interesting. I am quite concerned about the flat image and color that Fujifilm tends to produce. There has been a debate in this forum recently about this. The sample pictures I saw in some Japanese and Chinese website were actually flat and suffered from much highlight clipping. However, Matt in this forum, when comparing the S6500 and the Sony H5, has good comment about the S6500 and his sample pix look good, too. I am now among mixed information to decide about getting a S6500.

While a review has not been available, and not sure if Simon will review it, I would like to see more pictures from all of you here, picture without post processing shooting in different situation. So could you post the pictures you took at the golf course and pictures of human? I want to know more about its color (especially human's skin color), dynamic range, white balance, whether the camera sometimes overexpose, whether there is much highlight clipping. So far the ISO range is great and PF is acceptable to me.

Your conclusion "a great camera" makes me feel more confident about it. If you have any more comments, please let all of us know. They are very helpful. Thanks.

Minh
Hochiminh City, Vietnam
 
BobBuchanan said:
Fredy

I bought an s6000 (same as s6500 exc us) on Saturday and have shot
over 320 pix. I shot 100 today, all in bright sun (golf
tournament) so I ended up using the evf for almost all the shots.

I have no basis for comparison since I have never used a camera
with an evf before. My preference is for some kind of view finder
(vs lcd on back) probably because of prior use of film slr cameras.

The only problem is that the camera generates info along the bottom
of the viewfinder and that tends to cause me to mis-frame the pix.
I suspect all evfs would present the same problem. Note that I
explicitly elected to leave all the info turned on so I would know
what the camera was doing. This is my problem, not the camera's.

I wear glasses, but sometimes shoot with them off. The diopter
adjustment is easily and quickly adjusted to accomodate glasses on
or off. Even with my glasses on I could see the entire screen. It
was obvious when the lens was focused; I used the auto focus
exclusively. Of the 100 pix, two were not sharply focused. I can
only guess that I had hurried the camera (if that's possible) and
didn't give it time to focus. Two bad pix of 100 isn't bad.

Regarding usefulness ... I'm happy with the pix I took today.
Using the evf is not tiring and all the indicators of what the
camera is doing are easily visible. The evf seems to have a lower
resolution than the back lcd but that's not a problem, at least not
for me. I found it very easy to use and effective.

A couple of other comments on the camera ... the photos tend to be
softer than I like with 'sharpness' set on normal. Today's were
all done on 'hard;' none seemed too hard or artificial.

The normal color saturation is (my taste) a bit flat. On the other
hand, the chrome setting is too much color, but can be reduced with
photoshop, etc. I think I'll go back to 'normal' and add
saturation when I want.

On Saturday evening, starting 1hr before sunset and up until
sunset, I took a bunch of photos of kids about to go to Homecoming.
I took a few in the Natural/Flash mode. When I looked at the pics
later I noticed some that were grainy (eg, noisy) ... they were the
ones taken just before the flash. While I wouldn't want to publish
them, I would be happy to include them in an album to show friends,
etc. As it turns out, they were shot at iso 3200! I hadn't
realized how dark it had become until I looked at the pix my wife
took with our old dc; even with flash they were dark.

So far it's a great camera.

Bob
Click to expand...
Thanks for the various inputs. All points are very valuable. It is encouraging to see your input on EVF as I saw a couple of posts warning on poor resolution in EVF and yet I don't find any spec on EVF. As long as the EVF is usable when needed, I should be fine. I come from the p&s world and I only use EVF under bright sunlight situation or when the LCD become unusable. Having said that, since s6000/s6500 is a dSLR like camera, it will be used like professional with a dSLR,, what percentage of usage that I should expect from normal use on EVF comparing to LCD. Will it be odd (or kool) in using the LCD most of the time?

Thanks,
Hin

--
http://hintheman.blogspot.com/
http://techtheman.blogspot.com/
 
Hin Man said:
what percentage of usage that I should
expect from normal use on EVF comparing to LCD. Will it be odd (or
kool) in using the LCD most of the time?
Click to expand...
It's all up to you. Shoot any way that gives you best results.

I use EVF 99% of the time. I don't care much about the resolution, I use it just for framing and composing. The reason I use EVF is that I can hold the camera much more steady that way. This way camera has 3 touching points with my body - one hand on handle, other hand supporting it from below and eyebrow-nose touching the back (yes, I wear glasses). For me this is fairly stable position. I shoot couple of images, switch to LCD and check the result. If I'm not happy, switch back to EVF, reframe, reshoot and check again. If I have to shoot with LCD I put the strap around my neck and straighten out my arms, keeping the camera firmly in tension. That too gives pretty steady hold. When I shoot freeholding the camera in front of my face I always get worse shake compared to either using EVF or strapstrech.

Different bodies need different approach. With my E550 I'm using VF much less than with S5600.
 
aabram said:
aabram said:
what percentage of usage that I should
expect from normal use on EVF comparing to LCD. Will it be odd (or
kool) in using the LCD most of the time?
Click to expand...
It's all up to you. Shoot any way that gives you best results.
I use EVF 99% of the time. I don't care much about the resolution,
I use it just for framing and composing. The reason I use EVF is
that I can hold the camera much more steady that way. This way
camera has 3 touching points with my body - one hand on handle,
other hand supporting it from below and eyebrow-nose touching the
back (yes, I wear glasses). For me this is fairly stable position.
I shoot couple of images, switch to LCD and check the result. If
I'm not happy, switch back to EVF, reframe, reshoot and check
again. If I have to shoot with LCD I put the strap around my neck
and straighten out my arms, keeping the camera firmly in tension.
That too gives pretty steady hold. When I shoot freeholding the
camera in front of my face I always get worse shake compared to
either using EVF or strapstrech.

Different bodies need different approach. With my E550 I'm using VF
much less than with S5600.
Click to expand...
I agree with your observation about using the EVF for steadier platform. I can't imagine holding a camera the size of the 6000 out at arms length to focus and frame a shot.
 
aabram said:
aabram said:
what percentage of usage that I should
expect from normal use on EVF comparing to LCD. Will it be odd (or
kool) in using the LCD most of the time?
Click to expand...
It's all up to you. Shoot any way that gives you best results.
I use EVF 99% of the time. I don't care much about the resolution,
I use it just for framing and composing. The reason I use EVF is
that I can hold the camera much more steady that way. This way
camera has 3 touching points with my body - one hand on handle,
other hand supporting it from below and eyebrow-nose touching the
back (yes, I wear glasses). For me this is fairly stable position.
I shoot couple of images, switch to LCD and check the result. If
I'm not happy, switch back to EVF, reframe, reshoot and check
again. If I have to shoot with LCD I put the strap around my neck
and straighten out my arms, keeping the camera firmly in tension.
That too gives pretty steady hold. When I shoot freeholding the
camera in front of my face I always get worse shake compared to
either using EVF or strapstrech.

Different bodies need different approach. With my E550 I'm using VF
much less than with S5600.
Click to expand...
Excellent feedback. What about the EVF on manual focusing. Is it good enough for you to do any work requiring manual focus? I have been using p&s and with your input, the evf is essential for s6000/s6500.

Thanks,
Hin

--
http://hintheman.blogspot.com/
http://techtheman.blogspot.com/
 
Hin Man said:
Excellent feedback. What about the EVF on manual focusing. Is it
good enough for you to do any work requiring manual focus?
Click to expand...
Since I only have S5600 I can only tell how I proceed with it. Since I have set focus to center, I capture the object in center, press the trigger halfway down so it locks the focus (well, actually prefocuses), then I move the camera to reframe the scene and then press the trigger fully down, taking the pic. It's proabably easier with LCD but it can be done with EVF too. Sometimes when I'm unable to obtain focus this way I use area focus and move the crosshair where I want it to focus. It usually works this way too. It is somewhat difficult to focus through foreground objects, especially if the scene is full of distractions, grass, for example. It takes a bit of practice, you have to move the camera around a lot and hunt for that sweet spot where it locks onto something you want it to.

Consider these two images:





At first I had trouble getting the berries in focus, focus either jumped to background trees or grass on the background. I had to hunt for that perfect position, moving camera up and down, closer and farther and each time checking the focus with half-pressed trigger.

Yes, it can be done with EVF. Just don't pay any attention to resolution and color reproduction. It is adequate for rough focus estimation and that's as good as it gets. You can't judge the sharpness of any particular area neither from EVF nor LCD anyway because LCD lies too, perhaps a bit less, but nevertheless.
 
I am also looking at these two cameras. The FZ has a longer reach (12x), brighter lens (f/3.7 vs. f/4.9 at telephoto for the S6000), image stabilization, and better manual control (two thumbwheels to change settings). The S6000/6500 starts wider and can go to much higher ISO.

I personally I'd like to shoot at higher ISO, but does the brighter panasonic lens coupled with 2 stops of image stabilization help one shoot at lower ISO to keep the noise levels down? Coming from a Panasonic and Ricoh P&S, I felt the need to move away from noisy CCDs. I don't feel quite at the level of dSLR, as I don't want to invest in lens just yet.

Any comments on the lens quality between the two is much appreciated.

--
'It's not having what you want, it's wanting what you got.'
 
Minh

This is my first attempt to post photos! We'll see what happens.

Note that these have not been postprocessed, exc to reduce to 800x600

The 6500 will overexpose highlights, expecially in bright sun. One pix I can't get to upload is a face in bright sun. The brightest portions are noticeably clipped, while the shadows are ok.

When sharpness is set on 'normal' faces are too soft for my taste. I set it on hard for the golf match and am much happier with the result. Note that reducing the size to 800x600 seems to take some of the sharpness out of the photos.

At normal settings photos are a bit flat. I had "Fujicolor" set on "Chrome" at the golf match and now I think it turns up the colors too much. They look much better with the saturation turned down some ... expecially red. Needless to say I'm still learning how to use this camera.

The first was taken just before sunset, since I don't know how to post exif data here it is:
iso400, 1/210, f4.2, 0ev, sharpness=normal, fujicolor=std

http://server6.theimagehosting.com/image.php?img=DSCF0080.9f7.jpg

The next two were at the golf course, bright sun. I've posted just some faces ... having trouble uploading some of the other pix.

iso100, 1/210, f4.9, -1/3ev, sharp=hard. fujicolor=chrome

http://server6.theimagehosting.com/image.php?img=DSCF0293.8a3.jpg

Last: iso200, 1/320, f6.4, -1/3ve, sharp=hard, fijicolor=chrome

http://server6.theimagehosting.com/image.php?img=DSCF0327.bdf.jpg

(I believe you have to click on 'New Window' to see the pix)

How are things in Saigon (oops, Ho Chi Minh City)

Bob
 
Thanks Bob

I appreciate your info. It is very helpful. I can't wait to try it myself. Last thing they told me at Fuji is that we will get it by the end of next week here in South Africa.

As I read many threads about upgrading from this and that camera to S6500fd - most say it desn't do for them (especially S5600 owners). Let me turn this question around a bit. Would you guys/girls who tested this camera recomend it to a total beginner (first serious camera)?

I would like to see what is your opinion on that.

Regards

Fredy
 
Fymoh said:
Let me turn this question around a bit. Would you guys/girls who
tested this camera recomend it to a total beginner (first serious
camera)?
Click to expand...
Yes. Or, if (s)he is really-really serious (s)he might as well get secondhand entry-level dSLR, which may be found within the same price range.
 
Fredy

I used a film slr many years ago so feel fairly comfortable with framing pix, understanding light, speed and f number tradeoffs, etc., even if they are somewhat different with digital. With my old film camera you could: adjust f stop, shutter speed, self timer, focus (manual), zoom (manual), and plug in a flash ... that was it. This new camera is at least an order of magnitude more complicated, and more capable.

I have been using photoshop for a few years (my wife's digital p&s camera) so am comfortable changing pix the way I want them.

The s6000 can be easy to use if you're willing to put up with the slightly soft photos that 'auto' gives you. As soon as you want to use 'hard' shrpness you have to be in 'program' mode. Everything is still automatic, except for the iso setting, which can only be set via the f button. Still not all that difficult, exc that someone would have to know when to change the iso setting.

If you want to do bracketing, adjust ev, or change any of a number of other things it takes a while to learn what can be changed and how to do so. After about 400 pix I still have a ways to go before I will instinctively know which parameters can be changed in which mode. Conversely this camera has a lot more capability and flexibility than any camera (film or digital) I've ever used. And of course it is really fast ... we used to push film an f stop or two, but never anywhere near 3200 ... and they are not useless pix.

Bottom line ... it would be fine for a first time user who hoped to become more serious about photography and was willing to invest the time to use its capabilities. I don't think I 'd try to teach a grandmother how to use it.

Bob
 
Thanks again Bob,

I really appreciate it that you took some time to write these two posts answering my questions - the are really helpful.

Regards

Fredy
 
Hi Bob,

Thanks for posting the pictures. I believe the S6500fd is a good camera. The color from you pictures is good, and highlight clipping is acceptable (look at the picture of the girl wearing a hat, it is quite good). I am also waiting for the Canon G7, although is is being blamed so much in the Canon forum. I think I will choose between the G7 and the S6500fd.

"How are things in Saigon?" - a difficult question to answer, I think you must have been here before. We are striving for more and more development of the economy and less and less bad things in life. By the way, here is the link to the website of photographers in Vietnam, enjoy them: http://www.photo.vn/

Cheers
--
Minh
Hochiminh City, Vietnam
 
Minh

I was there in the mid-60's when things were really bad It was my first exposure to the orient; I'm from the US. I thought it was a fascinating and vibrant city. I've spent a fair amount of time elsewhere in Asia, but have never gotten back to Vietnam.

Good luck w/ the camera decision.

Bob
 
I closely reviewed an FZ50 - wonderful machined metal lens housing, tight build, Leica lens, great control layout etc etc.

However, I finally went for the Fuji 6500. Apart from the wide angle (and I do use the wider end of the range a lot) and the larger screen, the really telling thing was not so much the ISO performance but the quality of the FZ50's files.

The FZ50 is noisy, but the files are also over-processed, and this is one of the real problems. Viewing them at 1:1 shows many pixels that aren't meant to be where they are, and a considerable amount of smearing. This detracts from the lens performance. I don't see the point in paying that much money for a camera where the photo only really goes up to A4. On the other hand, a clean image can be interpolated more easily.

The Fuji has a more plasticy build and the lens has more than its fair share of chromatic aberration, but there is something to work with.

Ultimately it will be a DSLR for me when they have improved the design a bit and solved the dust problems - any older film reflex, even carefully maintained has dust in the most surprising of places (though some will come with the film) - give the DSLRs a few years of use and it might be a bit of a worry. In the meantime, the S6500 looks like being a good "bridge" camera.
 
Interesting and thoughtful analysis. I take it you don't put much store in the effectiveness of the anti-dust mechanisms currently employed in several of the DSLR's.
HCC said:
I closely reviewed an FZ50 - wonderful machined metal lens housing,
tight build, Leica lens, great control layout etc etc.

However, I finally went for the Fuji 6500. Apart from the wide
angle (and I do use the wider end of the range a lot) and the
larger screen, the really telling thing was not so much the ISO
performance but the quality of the FZ50's files.

The FZ50 is noisy, but the files are also over-processed, and this
is one of the real problems. Viewing them at 1:1 shows many pixels
that aren't meant to be where they are, and a considerable amount
of smearing. This detracts from the lens performance. I don't see
the point in paying that much money for a camera where the photo
only really goes up to A4. On the other hand, a clean image can be
interpolated more easily.

The Fuji has a more plasticy build and the lens has more than its
fair share of chromatic aberration, but there is something to work
with.

Ultimately it will be a DSLR for me when they have improved the
design a bit and solved the dust problems - any older film reflex,
even carefully maintained has dust in the most surprising of places
(though some will come with the film) - give the DSLRs a few years
of use and it might be a bit of a worry. In the meantime, the
S6500 looks like being a good "bridge" camera.
Click to expand...
--
Tim
 
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