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Proconsumer Cameras - 24mm

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zaxsan said:
There are only 2. The 8 MP Kodak P880 and the 10 MP Sony R1. The
Kodak is slow and somehwat noisy, while the Sony is bulky and has
bad ergonomics, but good picture quality.
Click to expand...
I beg to differ with your comment about the Sony R1 having bad
ergonomics - I have been using an R1 since January and find that it
is a very comfortable camera to use. The R1 is big and has a large lens,
but that makes it easy to get a secure grip and easy to use the
zoom and focus controls. The other controls are also easy to
access and use. The top-mounted tlit and swivel LCD also makes
overhead, waist-level, and other odd angle shooting very easy to
accomplish. It is an unusual camera, but in actual use it handles very
well.

--
When a hammer is your only tool, all problems begin to look like nails.
 
zaxsan said:
There are only 2. The 8 MP Kodak P880 and the 10 MP Sony R1. The
Kodak is slow and somehwat noisy, while the Sony is bulky and has
bad ergonomics, but good picture quality. Take your pick:
http://www.neocamera.com/review_kodak_p880.html
http://www.neocamera.com/review_sony_r1.html
  • Zak
Click to expand...
I checked the R1 review linked above but stopped reading when it stated that the Fuji S9000 has lower noise than the R1. Obviously the reviewer has no clue what he's talking about. But don't take my word for it, see the samples linked below and/or check any other review of these cameras. The most well-regarded review sites (apart from dpreview.com) are:

http://dcresource.com/
http://www.imaging-resource.com/

But I suggest you begin with the best of them all:

http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/sonydscr1/
http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/kodakp880/

Here are ISO800 samples from dcresource to show the difference between the Fuji and the Sony. First the Fuji S9000:



And then the Sony R1:

 
I just bought an R1 but find the ergonomics quite good. Being left eyed as well I appreciate the viewfinder standoff so my nose doesn't grease up the back of the camera. Not many non slr cameras can be handled as nice in manual as it has a pair of command dials.

Quirks so far, the auto lcd/evf setting is useless as a good shooting stance with the r1 is like a tlr at waist level. The eye thing sees your belly and turns off lcd.
 
Looking for a good proconsumer camera if possible lens starting at 24. If there is no one acceptable I will take a look at Pentax K100 with a lens. Leica V-lux1 looks very good but is way to expensive. Fz50, S9100 is a option too. I would like a AA battery so I can travel with no problems...
 
Hmm, most don't take AA's from my knowledge. The R1 uses fm50 sony batteries or fm55's. They are pretty common now since camcorders use them. About 400 shots per battery for the R1, I have three now, can get them for 20$ on the internet.

I'm a bit biased again AA's since cheap local alkalines are nearly useless in digital cameras. One of mine can use them instead of the factory lithiums but you go from 200 shots to about 15. My brother in law's cam burned up 30 AA's on a recent trip when he lost his rechargables. He only shot 400 pics or so.
Minolta 0 said:
Looking for a good proconsumer camera if possible lens starting at
24. If there is no one acceptable I will take a look at Pentax K100
with a lens. Leica V-lux1 looks very good but is way to expensive.
Fz50, S9100 is a option too. I would like a AA battery so I can
travel with no problems...
Click to expand...
 
DigitalMaven said:
zaxsan said:
There are only 2. The 8 MP Kodak P880 and the 10 MP Sony R1. The
Kodak is slow and somehwat noisy, while the Sony is bulky and has
bad ergonomics, but good picture quality.
Click to expand...
I beg to differ with your comment about the Sony R1 having bad
ergonomics...
Click to expand...
I agree. The R1 ergonomics is one of it's best features!

--
Charlie Davis
Nikon 5700 & Sony R1
CATS #25
PAS Scribe @ http://www.here-ugo.com/PAS_List.htm
HomePage: http://www.1derful.info
'I brake for pixels...'
 
The R1 has outstanding ergonomics. It is one of the best laid out digital cameras I have ever owned.
--

The greatest of mankind's criminals are those who delude themselves into thinking they have done 'the right thing.'
  • Rayna Butler
 
That is not what most reviews say. DCResource: "Unusual design: top-mounted LCD is awkward, button layout is cluttered, command dial needs a lock" Imaging Resource says: "Control layout is a little awkward, Hand grip may be uncomfortably large for some users, Top-mounted LCD is a fingerprint magnet# Auto-switching between LCD and EVF can be annoying", DP Review: "Odd LCD location either difficult to get used to or a serious limitation (user dependent)" Digital Camera Info: "Mediocre LCD (very limited angle of view)- Poor placement of some controls, illogical design. Hot shoe placed far off to right side, Control dials don't turn smoothly." Luminous Landscape: "It isn't the most intuitive design around, but one gets used to it, and must controls can be accessed quickly enough, Sony the eye sensor is far too sensitive". There are other comments. I've tried one personally and frankly disliked using it quite a bit. The LCD is passable at waist-level, assuming the outdoor sun is not shining on it, but in the vertical orientation turns the camera into a huge an unweildy device. Then again, Sony probably designed it with some users in mind...
  • Zak
 
The only buttons I find hard to use are the focus mode and bracketing buttons. I can't use them without moving the camera away from the eye. Everything else works great. I can't imagine why the control wheels need locks, both take a nice firm motion to move. The handgrip probably isn't comfortable for little handed people, neither are small gripped cameras for big handed people.

The auto switcher for the lcd is poorly designed, it picks up your belly too often but the lcd itself is great many people enjoy it for waist level and low level shooting. At eyelevel the EVF works better. I like the fact I don't leave nose smudges all over it from being left eyed.
 
The kodak P880 should not be dismissed, it is something of a bargain, has a great lens, loads of conrol.... yes it is a bit slow ...but I cant understand why people say that it is noisy, it just isn't noisy , the image quality is very very good indeed, I use one every day ...its great

Vaughan
 
I haven't read a really good review on the R1. The "pros" seem to write before they get used to the camera. There are some things that I (and other perceptive owners) REALLY like that the pro reviewers pan with glee. As examples... Phil didn't like the EVF sticking out the back. Users love it! Phil said the EVF hit his eye. I stop before that happens! Phil didn't like the LCD screen on the top. Users rave about it. Some find the button layout crowded. I can't understand that, as I love the button layout (most of the time I don't have to look to find the button...I can find it by braile). In spite of the nits that Phil found, he still rated the camera "Highly Recommended".

Always try a camera before buying. I am not trying to convert zaxsan to my opinion. I am just countering his negative opinion with my positive opinion. I'm sure he really didn't like the R1 and that's fine. But the OP needs to know that the vast majority of users here on DPR like the camera. But it's a weird camera and you will have to delete some of your paradigms to get it to work in some settings. Most people find it impossible to take pictures of moving subjects with the R1. But I'm smarter than those people, I guess. I find it really easy to do! I take LOTS of auto racing shots and after a few days experience (trying different techniques) I have no difficulty. Note that I don't have the add-on tele lens. I just get closer, like I did with my SLR back in the '70s. I also put the camera on a tripod, locate the tripod close to the action and operate the camera remotely (I do this when the camera location is dangerous for me). I have a remote LCD screen so I can see what the camera sees. That's impossible with a dSLR!
zaxsan said:
That is not what most reviews say. DCResource: "Unusual design:
top-mounted LCD is awkward, button layout is cluttered, command
dial needs a lock" Imaging Resource says: "Control layout is a
little awkward, Hand grip may be uncomfortably large for some
users, Top-mounted LCD is a fingerprint magnet# Auto-switching
between LCD and EVF can be annoying", DP Review: "Odd LCD location
either difficult to get used to or a serious limitation (user
dependent)" Digital Camera Info: "Mediocre LCD (very limited angle
of view)- Poor placement of some controls, illogical design. Hot
shoe placed far off to right side, Control dials don't turn
smoothly." Luminous Landscape: "It isn't the most intuitive design
around, but one gets used to it, and must controls can be accessed
quickly enough, Sony the eye sensor is far too sensitive". There
are other comments. I've tried one personally and frankly disliked
using it quite a bit. The LCD is passable at waist-level, assuming
the outdoor sun is not shining on it, but in the vertical
orientation turns the camera into a huge an unweildy device. Then
again, Sony probably designed it with some users in mind...
Click to expand...
Yep...the rest of us bought it.

--
Charlie Davis
Nikon 5700 & Sony R1
CATS #25
PAS Scribe @ http://www.here-ugo.com/PAS_List.htm
HomePage: http://www.1derful.info
'I brake for pixels...'
 
I wouldn't call the R1 ideal for capturing high speed events, the manual focusing and such are workarounds of the cameras limits. For lots of other shooting it is a great machine.
 
slowzuki said:
I wouldn't call the R1 ideal for capturing high speed events, the
manual focusing and such are workarounds of the cameras limits.
For lots of other shooting it is a great machine.
Click to expand...
I'm a poor man. I have an R1 and HAVE to learn how to use it. Sigh...

While you my think that manual focusing is a "workaround", I don't. It's a feature that can be used to take good pictures.

When I approach a job at a race track, I look for places where "action" will occur. If I have been to the track before, experience has showed me where interesting things happen. I pick ONE of those places. I don't walk around much. If it's a statistically hot spot, I try to be patient. Sometimes I can anticipate when something is about to happen. Often I can't. I try to take a picture at the moment when a car is likely to spin/drift/crash etc. Most pix are throwaways. But I do get LOTs of good action pix this way.

The R1 is a PERFECT camera for this type action shot. It has the absolutely fastest shutter of any camera (at the moment)...0.007 seconds. To get that speed, you have to either pre-focus or use manual focus. I use both of these techniques, depending on the setting and how I'm taking the shot. If I'm panning with the car (to blur the background), I pre-focus. If I am taking shots of the car rounding a corner and generally approaching me, I manually focus. In that last setting, even a VERY fast dSLR doesn't AF fast enough to get a good shot, as the car can be approaching at 200+ MPH (220+ feet/second) and even a 50 mS AF time is equal to 12 feet. Some phase AF systems will fail to focus on a quickly approaching car and others will focus where it WAS. The best approach with any camera is to pick a spot, focus on it, and take the pic(s) there.

--
Charlie Davis
Nikon 5700 & Sony R1
CATS #25
PAS Scribe @ http://www.here-ugo.com/PAS_List.htm
HomePage: http://www.1derful.info
'I brake for pixels...'
 
Maybe there are large numbers of people who tried it and didn't like it compared to the few who tried it, liked it and bought it. Just a thought as I've never tried one although that top mounted LCD turns me off.
--
Tom

http://www.flickr.com/photos/25301400@N00/
 
I can't believe anybody is stupid enough to use alkaline AA's in a digital camera since rechargable NiMh batteries and chargers are cheap, readily available and will give hundreds of shots per charge..
--
Tom

http://www.flickr.com/photos/25301400@N00/
 
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