Uzi Stabilizer on-off Comparisons, Tripod 4 Sale

wow, do you have time to waste that much? i will not spend more
time on this as i think i have already had enough of this
nonsense..i will not reply to any of your messages anymore.
It didn't take long at all, Daniella, and it gave me more insight to what you've been doing. You been "defending" the C700 by knocking the C2100 almost from the time you first joined the forum. You've been knocking IS on the 2100 quite vigorously making it seem that most anybody can get the same results on the C700 handheld at slow shutter speeds that you can which isn't the case at all and I feel you're misleading people by doing that. You've even tried to assert that the IS could cause blurry handheld images. It's noteworthy that you'll happily point someone to a review of the 2100 if it contains a negative point but you admonish a review that contains a negative point about the C700 preferring instead to have people believe you instead. That's the double standard again. Another example is your near constant harping about how existing light shots look yellow on the 2100 because it doesn't have the C700's manual white balance and you say it takes a "miracle" in PhotoShop to remove it. But, in order to increase the C700's shutter speed in order to get it high enough for NORMAL people to take sharp handheld shots, you suggest increasing the ISO to 800 which, of course, raises the grain and noise in the image which, you say, can be removed later with NO "miracle". Also, from reading your messages, it appears that, at times, you can type with perfect clarity, grammar, and spelling and then there are times where your words are quite the opposite. It's as if you're two entirely different people.
 
Thank you, this seems to be a better comparison of IS than the two photos shown at the start of this thread. IS isn't perfect, but it is better than nothing. I'm still testing my C700 and deciding whether to keep it or not (zoom shake)... I have until Monday to return it with no questions asked. My preliminary full zoom tests on a cloudy day are prettty much what I expected..... about 1/3 of the shots have motion blur. The 2100 is definately not an option (size) so it's either the C700 or a 3x zoom for me.

--Joe
Olympus Dig Cam Forums:
http://pub28.ezboard.com/folympusultrazoomc700c2100frm5
For IS ON- 1/20s 40% sharp; 1/50s 46% sharp; 1/100s 89% sharp
For IS OFF 1/20s 13% sharp; 1/50s 23% sharp; 1/100s 51% sharp

You can see that in my test I received from tree to two times
better chance to have a sharp image with IS than without it. I
would consider it very significant. There is another factor. These
results are applied to me. I was holding the camera and pressed the
shutter. Other people may do better or worse but the tendency is
obvious.
Leo
See why C2100UZ owners are selling their tripods!

I have two composite photos showing the benefit of the Oly C2100UZ
stabilized lens. Now if we can only keep our subjects still.

http://www.pbase.com/johncurtis/c2100uz

Happy Snaps,

John Curtis
http://www.pbase.com/johncurtis/yosemite
--
John C
 
Jerry,
Okay, thanks.
Wayne
Jerry,

Why would there be any difference comparing IS / no IS using a
tripod? Maybe there is somthing I don't understand about IS, but
if there is no movement of the camera, shouldn't the two shots be
the same? Also, if the subject is moving, does IS help in some
regard with slower shutter speeds when the light is poor?

Thanks in advance.

Wayne

JerryLP wrote:
thelawayne:

I am only repeating what I have heard, to my best recollection, on
this forum, that IS MAY be fooled and/or MAY "hunt" back and forth
to different focus points, when used on a (solid) support or
tripod, and that disabling IS when using a SOLID support seems to
be the consensus recommendation here. I have no proof of this as
fact, and so far, I have not researched any tests regarding this on
this forum (perhaps I should). I was just interested in knowing
whether a composite technique was ever used before for a "tripod"
test.

Jerry
Outstanding job, John! I must confess, I did not do a search, but
what about a similar composite comparing IS / no IS with UZI on a
tripod. Apparently for this application, according to most
opinions, no IS should be better. Your composite technique would
show the result (whatever it is) with no ambiguity. (Forgive me if
this test has already been done!)
Thanks for posting your work!

Jerry
 
Inigo,

Thanks, this helps a lot. I see it now on p135 of my E100 manual. One more thing learned. The manual sucks pretty much for the E100 so I don't read it as much as I should.

Thanks again,

Wayne
It's not just consensus. It's on page 97 of the manual!

Quote 1:

Under some conditions IS may not work effectively.
  • When the camera angle is changed very quickly
  • Night-scene recording
  • Overexposure
  • When the battery indicator is blinking
Quote 2:
THIS MODE IS NOT SUITABLE IN THE FOLLOWING CASES:
  • When using a tripod
  • When using a cinepanhead
  • When using a conversion lens
Of course manuals aren't always 100% correct. I mean they
also say only use Oly smartcards, Oly batteries, etc. and the
E-100RS literature says microdrives not recommended, but people
seem to be using those all the time.
 
Joe,

I like the 2100 very much and selected it over 700 because of IS, one piece and threaded lens and low light focus assistant light. However its size is too big. I also have incredibly small camera Sony P1. It is a true pocket size 3mp camera. It is also a true point and shoot. All menu settings displayed on the back LCD and in daylight are hard to read. The 700 equipped with the same EVF as the 2100 and it solves the problem. I have compared the 2100 with 700 in the store making hundreds of test photos at X10 zoom and found that I can not hold steady a 700 at low shutter speed (the same applied to a 2100). It is not tat my hands are too shaky but just X10 or X27 times zoom. With Image Stabilization I can use low shutter speed with good results. However, I like to take the camera with me on bicycle rides. I am riding a road bicycle. I have my 2100 for two months and did not take it for on ride with me. It is to big and I also afraid to damage it. I probably should buy a 700 or other camera with EVF and a reasonable zoom and I may do it in the future. You are impressively solid in your camera choice.
Leo
--Joe
Olympus Dig Cam Forums:
http://pub28.ezboard.com/folympusultrazoomc700c2100frm5
For IS ON- 1/20s 40% sharp; 1/50s 46% sharp; 1/100s 89% sharp
For IS OFF 1/20s 13% sharp; 1/50s 23% sharp; 1/100s 51% sharp

You can see that in my test I received from tree to two times
better chance to have a sharp image with IS than without it. I
would consider it very significant. There is another factor. These
results are applied to me. I was holding the camera and pressed the
shutter. Other people may do better or worse but the tendency is
obvious.
Leo
See why C2100UZ owners are selling their tripods!

I have two composite photos showing the benefit of the Oly C2100UZ
stabilized lens. Now if we can only keep our subjects still.

http://www.pbase.com/johncurtis/c2100uz

Happy Snaps,

John Curtis
http://www.pbase.com/johncurtis/yosemite
--
John C
 
Daniella,

I do agree with you. It skips me what is Terry' goal. It does look he has a problem and somehow he has selected you to express it. His is somewhat (I think unintentionally) hostile to you. I would ignore it. As I heard - " It is one step from Love to Hate" It is also true the other way around ;-).
Leo
hmm..i usually old the camera, rest it on my nose and eyebrow? and
then hold my breath and shoot.

no big deal or fancy technique. When i think that i am at the most
stable position i very gently press the shutter button. that,s
about it.

I will try to find that thread back...but in this forum its hard to
search for anything.
--
Daniella
http://www.pbase.com/zylen
C7OO discussion group:
http://www.homepet.com/cgi-bin/c700/UltraBoard.cgi

'The things you own will only endup owning you'
 
The thing that bothers me about Daniella's posts are the underlying deceptions she uses to sell people on HER favorite camera. SHE can handhold the 700 at incredibly low shutter speeds and get the sharp photos she gets which is great if she's truly not using ANY supplemental stabilization. But she gives the notion to other people that THEY can do the same thing with a C700 which I feel is purposely misleading camera shoppers. The vast majority of people just aren't steady enough to accomplish that. Looking at her posting history, she's consistently attempted to make IS on the 2100 an unimportant feature and your tests have concluded that IS is a very worthwhile asset. Like I stated before, she also likes to point to bad reviews on the 2100 but if there's a bad review on the C700, she insists that people ignore it and believe what SHE says. There again, a deceptive practice. Another thing is she always cites "facts" that she just can't seem to find when confronted. I also noted how different her typing style is at times and it's not just a little different which I find strange. Sometimes she can barely punctuate a sentence correctly and then others times her posts are near perfect.
hmm..i usually old the camera, rest it on my nose and eyebrow? and
then hold my breath and shoot.

no big deal or fancy technique. When i think that i am at the most
stable position i very gently press the shutter button. that,s
about it.

I will try to find that thread back...but in this forum its hard to
search for anything.
--
Daniella
http://www.pbase.com/zylen
C7OO discussion group:
http://www.homepet.com/cgi-bin/c700/UltraBoard.cgi

'The things you own will only endup owning you'
 
See why C2100UZ owners are selling their tripods!

I have two composite photos showing the benefit of the Oly C2100UZ
stabilized lens. Now if we can only keep our subjects still.

http://www.pbase.com/johncurtis/c2100uz

Happy Snaps,

John Curtis
http://www.pbase.com/johncurtis/yosemite
--
John C
--DomDP-NJC-2100UZ http://www.pbase.com/domdp 'The quality of your life is determined by how you feel at any given moment. How you feel is determined by how you interpret what is happening around you, not by the events themselves.' --Brian Tracy--
 
Terry,

I think you have described the situation exactly as I (and others ) see it too. Daniella has a difficult time accepting IS as an advantage to get sharp images.

But, in her defense and out of fairness, back when it all started ,the c700 and their owners were taking an unfair/ unbalanced licking for producing poor indoor images, not having IS, and having way too much CA by everyone who had a UZI. UZIers were simply overwhelming.

The UZIers were heavily selling their favorite camera. I know because they sold me too. It is very popular and its hard to control the excitement of having a UZi but too much negative comparing has p----ed off other model users too. I think this has caused Daniella to become so defensive and is what makes her try to get back at the UZIers. As I have been recently talking up about lately, this camera comparison stuff only breeds hard feelings. Leave it too the reviewers. Each camera should be compared on its individual features and capabilities. We all know an experienced user of a particular camera can make it work real good and faults or shortcomings can usually be worked around most any camera.. Seems she has done just that.JD
hmm..i usually old the camera, rest it on my nose and eyebrow? and
then hold my breath and shoot.

no big deal or fancy technique. When i think that i am at the most
stable position i very gently press the shutter button. that,s
about it.

I will try to find that thread back...but in this forum its hard to
search for anything.
--
Daniella
http://www.pbase.com/zylen
C7OO discussion group:
http://www.homepet.com/cgi-bin/c700/UltraBoard.cgi

'The things you own will only endup owning you'
 
John,

I agree with you. Many of us are still selling "their" cameras. In a year a dream digital camera may be very different than we know it today. The camera is a tool and it is up to an individual to select a tool she/he likes. The arguments often are at a kindergarten level: "My toy is better than yours. It can float or It is green"
Leo
hmm..i usually old the camera, rest it on my nose and eyebrow? and
then hold my breath and shoot.

no big deal or fancy technique. When i think that i am at the most
stable position i very gently press the shutter button. that,s
about it.

I will try to find that thread back...but in this forum its hard to
search for anything.
--
Daniella
http://www.pbase.com/zylen
C7OO discussion group:
http://www.homepet.com/cgi-bin/c700/UltraBoard.cgi

'The things you own will only endup owning you'
 
Terry,
I think you have described the situation exactly as I (and others )
see it too. Daniella has a difficult time accepting IS as an
advantage to get sharp images.
But, in her defense and out of fairness, back when it all started
,the c700 and their owners were taking an unfair/ unbalanced
licking for producing poor indoor images, not having IS, and
having way too much CA by everyone who had a UZI. UZIers were
simply overwhelming.
The UZIers were heavily selling their favorite camera. I know
because they sold me too. It is very popular and its hard to
control the excitement of having a UZi but too much negative
comparing has p----ed off other model users too. I think this has
caused Daniella to become so defensive and is what makes her try to
get back at the UZIers. As I have been recently talking up about
lately, this camera comparison stuff only breeds hard feelings.
Leave it too the reviewers. Each camera should be compared on its
individual features and capabilities. We all know an experienced
user of a particular camera can make it work real good and faults
or shortcomings can usually be worked around most any camera..
Seems she has done just that.JD
I wouldn't know about the C700 bashing because I wasn't in on it and don't feel it's necessary or appropriate. My main objection is the dishonesty. She's even gone as far as to call me a liar and then lied about doing it. Like you say, it SEEMS like she's worked around the lack of IS but I have my doubts.
 
Has anybody noticed any trade-offs to using IS? For example, I was trying to pan on some pellicans flying over the water in southern Mendocino, and had to remember to turn IS off to get the shot. I've forgotten to turn IS off for night shots on a tripod, and they're always unuseable because of the softness.

Trying to balance the thread a little ... obviously this can be a great feature, but do you really think it's useful for every shot?
 
Hi Forrest.

Panning shots are the worst in this respect as you're often not prepared for those kind of shots. Hence, you might not have the time to go to the menu to turn IS off. I've grown pretty accustomed to turning IS off when using a tripod but it has escaped me a couple of times.

Then again, can't blame the camera for that. ;-)

Maxven
Has anybody noticed any trade-offs to using IS? For example, I was
trying to pan on some pellicans flying over the water in southern
Mendocino, and had to remember to turn IS off to get the shot.
I've forgotten to turn IS off for night shots on a tripod, and
they're always unuseable because of the softness.

Trying to balance the thread a little ... obviously this can be a
great feature, but do you really think it's useful for every shot?
 
Panning shots are the worst in this respect as you're often not
prepared for those kind of shots. Hence, you might not have the
time to go to the menu to turn IS off. I've grown pretty accustomed
to turning IS off when using a tripod but it has escaped me a
couple of times.
Yeah ... I'd prefer the IS control to be on the body somewhere, like the metering modes... What about other trade-offs? Sharpness? Color? Contrast?
 
Has anybody noticed any trade-offs to using IS? For example, I was
trying to pan on some pellicans flying over the water in southern
Mendocino, and had to remember to turn IS off to get the shot.
I've forgotten to turn IS off for night shots on a tripod, and
they're always unuseable because of the softness.
I leave mine on all of the time except the few times I use a tripod.

I can see the effect of the IS when using a tripod. The image shuffles around in the viewfinder. I would imagine if the shutter speed is faster than the shuffle, leaving the IS on while on a tripod wouldn't make the image soft. I guess the image quality would be affected if the shutter speed is slower than the shuffle.

How much adverse affect on the image quality does leaving the IS on when panning? Would the speed of the panning make a difference?

I've taken a lot of airshow shots (and believe me, those suckers are movin' !) with IS on and the images appear fine to me. I've also taken a lot of other shots while panning with the IS on.

John M
 
Panning shots are the worst in this respect as you're often not
prepared for those kind of shots. Hence, you might not have the
time to go to the menu to turn IS off. I've grown pretty accustomed
to turning IS off when using a tripod but it has escaped me a
couple of times.
Yeah ... I'd prefer the IS control to be on the body somewhere,
like the metering modes... What about other trade-offs?
Sharpness? Color? Contrast?
A button on the body would be nice, I think the pro90 has one.

Since the optical elements are still in the light path even when the IS is off there are no differences in color or contrast.--Later, MartyC-2IOO, D-49OWe’re riding on the escalator of life, we’re shopping in the human mall.
 
Since the optical elements are still in the light path even when
the IS is off there are no differences in color or contrast.
Okay, that's two more lens elements, so in theory that's about 8% less light to the CCD. What are the elements made of, are they coated, and what about the solution they float in?
 
Has anybody noticed any trade-offs to using IS? For example, I was
trying to pan on some pellicans flying over the water in southern
Mendocino, and had to remember to turn IS off to get the shot.
I've forgotten to turn IS off for night shots on a tripod, and
they're always unuseable because of the softness.
I leave mine on all of the time except the few times I use a tripod.
I can see the effect of the IS when using a tripod. The image
shuffles around in the viewfinder. I would imagine if the shutter
speed is faster than the shuffle, leaving the IS on while on a
tripod wouldn't make the image soft. I guess the image quality
would be affected if the shutter speed is slower than the shuffle.

How much adverse affect on the image quality does leaving the IS on
when panning? Would the speed of the panning make a difference?

I've taken a lot of airshow shots (and believe me, those suckers
are movin' !) with IS on and the images appear fine to me. I've
also taken a lot of other shots while panning with the IS on.

John M
Hi John.

It's hard to quantify the effect of using IS while panning. I guess a lot of circumstances like f.ex. shutter speed has to be taken into account. The reason for turning IS off is that it'll try to countereffect the panning since it's designed to keep the image from moving. Your panning is intentional but the IS system doesn't know that so it'll work against you. How much it affects your images I can't tell.

Maxven
 
Hi Leo,

I did not even read his reply, i will not read any of his message anymore, not interested...

Those things happen, but there is enough very nice people in this forum to make me happy :)
hmm..i usually old the camera, rest it on my nose and eyebrow? and
then hold my breath and shoot.

no big deal or fancy technique. When i think that i am at the most
stable position i very gently press the shutter button. that,s
about it.

I will try to find that thread back...but in this forum its hard to
search for anything.
--
Daniella
http://www.pbase.com/zylen
C7OO discussion group:
http://www.homepet.com/cgi-bin/c700/UltraBoard.cgi

'The things you own will only endup owning you'
--Daniella http://www.pbase.com/zylenC7OO discussion group: http://www.homepet.com/cgi-bin/c700/UltraBoard.cgi 'The things you own will only endup owning you'
 

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