Wait before complaining about the S5

etto72 · Sep 25, 2006

I'm like many of you a bit disorientated about the fact that the new S5 has still the same 6+6 sensore design of the S3

But in the other hand

If they have pushed (like they claim) the quality even higher: noise at high iso better of any other camera,even better DR,better tonality,even better color
.....would you be disappointed?
I would not!!

As we know the main priority for Fujifilm is quality not quantity and i think they are the only one that really think different about it

I have the felling that the image quality of this camera will be one of the best among all the Dslr

There is also an other thing we should consider when we speak about Mp

We all know that the 6+6 of the S3 corresponds at a resolution between 8 to 9 MP of a standard sensor, now ....what about if the 6+6 sensor of the new S5 reaches even a higher resolution,lets say between 11 to 12mp ,wouldn't be enough for most of us?

I think before putting down the new S5 we should wait to see what it can really do

Thanks for listening
Ettore

Tigadee · Sep 25, 2006

I'm glad to see someone who looks beneath the surface and reads between the lines.

etto72 said:
etto72 wrote:
If they have pushed (like they claim) the quality even higher:
noise at high iso better of any other camera,even better DR,better
tonality,even better color
.....would you be disappointed?
I would not!!
As we know the main priority for Fujifilm is quality not
quantity and i think they are the only one that really think
different about it
I have the felling that the image quality of this camera will be
one of the best among all the Dslr

The S3 Pro didn't disappoint many who actually used it and gave it a chance, I don't think the S5 will disappoint either for those who really use it.

etto72 said:
There is also an other thing we should consider when we speak about Mp
We all know that the 6+6 of the S3 corresponds at a resolution
between 8 to 9 MP of a standard sensor, now ....what about if the
6+6 sensor of the new S5 reaches even a higher resolution,lets
say between 11 to 12mp ,wouldn't be enough for most of us?
I think before putting down the new S5 we should wait to see what
it can really do

Let's not forget that the S3 (and I expect the S5 to be the same) was highly praised for delivering on its promise of high resolution in its 12mp mode. So it is a 12mp camera, regardless of the technology used to acheive that number.

--

Your 4 'Cees' for photography: Crisp, Clean, Composed and Colourful
http://www.tigadee.fotopic.net

Focus 3 · Sep 25, 2006

--
JB

flying monkey · Sep 25, 2006

Alas this will be the last Fuji DSLR, i really like my S3 Pro but i also have a D200 and a D80 and you can see the difference between them and the Fuji the extra MP's do show.

The S5 is still a 6mp camera if it performs like the S3 it will be a very good 6mp camera, Fuji got in too trrouble by advertising their camera's in the uk for having mp's they did not have so this will be a 6mp camera.

Will not matter what the reviews are like will people buy a S5 instead of a 10 mp Nikon don't think so, will i buy one no and a lot of others have said the same so even less sales than the S3.

Nikon will not give away D200 shells so the price will to a extent be controlled by this, i would really like a viable alternative to Nikon but this is not one.

Larry167119 · Sep 25, 2006

I think we all need to wait to see the image samples and side by side comparisons to the D200 and D80. I am very pleased that Fuji has the D200 body, now lets see what the images will look like.

H Smith · Sep 25, 2006

Before everyone gets upset about the lack of a sensor upgrade, consider this:The newest Fuji's do not use interpolation anymore. They achieve very high resolution because of the SuperCCD layout ( my F-30, according to DPR has higher resolution than my S3). What if Fuji has discovered a way to blend the S and R pixels to raise the sensors resolution.They are now putting a more robust processor in the camera, and are also describing a new RAW converter.
If so, I hope the technology can be applied to S3 raw files.
Henry F. Smith
Http: www.glensummitimages.com

Zarathustra · Sep 25, 2006

And glad that Fuji has not falled into the megapixel craze.

I also reserve my judgement 'til the comparison reviews show what the S5 is capable to deliver.

Having the D200 body and the other accumulation of small refinements make this an spectacular camera.

--
Thus spoke Zarathustra, amen.

Clyde Atkinson · Sep 25, 2006

H Smith said:
Before everyone gets upset about the lack of a sensor upgrade,
consider this:The newest Fuji's do not use interpolation anymore.
They achieve very high resolution because of the SuperCCD layout (
my F-30, according to DPR has higher resolution than my S3). What
if Fuji has discovered a way to blend the S and R pixels to raise
the sensors resolution.They are now putting a more robust processor
in the camera, and are also describing a new RAW converter.
If so, I hope the technology can be applied to S3 raw files.
Henry F. Smith
Http: www.glensummitimages.com

I think what has been done in some of the Fuji digicams (like the F30 and S9600) is that they still interpolate but they do not make the interpolated image available as output, so the S9600 9mp sensor interpolates to 18mp in camera, then only the 9mp version is available as a jpeg. I don't know how that would impact the S5 sensor if something similar were done (and we don't know if it is or isn't), I guess everyone will just have to wait for real sample pics and judge for themselves.
Clyde

bossnas · Sep 25, 2006

only 5 months left to go until release!

I waited and waited before upgrading from my S2 3 weeks ago to a D200 and I wish I'd done it sooner. I'll shoot a lot of images between now and Feb 2007 and I'm so glad that I went with NIkon as the NEF fornat is more versatile with software applications compared to the RAF format imo. Finally I can start using Apple Aperture for example.

Pay your money and take your choice.

Cheers
-N

-------------------------------------------
I reserve the right to an opinion
http://www.nasirhamid.com

coolpixboy · Sep 25, 2006

etto72 said:
I'm like many of you a bit disorientated about the fact that the
new S5 has still the same 6+6 sensore design of the S3

But in the other hand

If they have pushed (like they claim) the quality even higher:
noise at high iso better of any other camera,even better DR,better
tonality,even better color
.....would you be disappointed?
I would not!!

As we know the main priority for Fujifilm is quality not
quantity and i think they are the only one that really think
different about it
I have the felling that the image quality of this camera will be
one of the best among all the Dslr

There is also an other thing we should consider when we speak about Mp
We all know that the 6+6 of the S3 corresponds at a resolution
between 8 to 9 MP of a standard sensor, now ....what about if the
6+6 sensor of the new S5 reaches even a higher resolution,lets
say between 11 to 12mp ,wouldn't be enough for most of us?
I think before putting down the new S5 we should wait to see what
it can really do

I know that silkypix 3.0 beta already uses the R pixels to gain extra resolution. The feature is called "Honeycomb pixel resolution plus" (as translated from japanese):

camera jpeg:

std RAW conversion:

Honeycomb pixel resolution plus conversion (Wide mode only):

The red line marks the extinct resolution. In my opinion the JPG processing engine will be a key factor.

etto72 said:
Thanks for listening
Ettore

maxz · Sep 25, 2006

that difference is pretty huge... Wonder why Fuji never advertised the sensor as extended DR AND higher resolution than traditional 6MP cams... looks like that silkpix engine got every bit of juice out of that amazing sensor...

Anyone seen any comparison between the silkypix honeycomb conversion and typical 6-10 MP cameras?

Fred Phillips · Sep 25, 2006

The only really truly horrible part about all this is the unfortunate wait imposed on us until this camera is generally made availble. This means 5 months or more of endless hand wringing, rude messages and replies, useless speculation about what the S5 might or might not feature, breathless reports about what this or that Fuji rep has told someone, etc etc. It will therefore be important to read all the headings of forthcoming messages on this forum in order to cull out all this nonsense and attend to those messages that are about the photgrapher's art and craft usingl Fuji cameras (since this is a Fuji forum).

bossnas said:
only 5 months left to go until release!

I waited and waited before upgrading from my S2 3 weeks ago to a
D200 and I wish I'd done it sooner. I'll shoot a lot of images
between now and Feb 2007 and I'm so glad that I went with NIkon as
the NEF fornat is more versatile with software applications
compared to the RAF format imo. Finally I can start using Apple
Aperture for example.

Pay your money and take your choice.

Cheers
-N

-------------------------------------------
I reserve the right to an opinion
http://www.nasirhamid.com

Bernie Ess · Sep 25, 2006

etto72 said:
noise at high iso better of any other camera,even better DR,better
tonality,even better color

Where did you read it has better DR? it has not - still 400% = 2 additional stops. Which is fine by 2004's standards, like the S3, but no progress.

Technological standstill. Dissappointing.

Bernie

Karl Jacobs191778 · Sep 25, 2006

Fred Phillips said:
The only really truly horrible part about all this is the
unfortunate wait imposed on us until this camera is generally made
availble. This means 5 months or more of endless hand wringing,
rude messages and replies, useless speculation about what the S5
might or might not feature, breathless reports about what this or
that Fuji rep has told someone, etc etc. It will therefore be
important to read all the headings of forthcoming messages on this
forum in order to cull out all this nonsense and attend to those
messages that are about the photgrapher's art and craft usingl Fuji
cameras (since this is a Fuji forum).

and that Canon, Nikon, and Sony have 5 more months to introduce something new as well.

The target audience (wedding and portrait) and the true beleivers will wait for the S5 and be happy, the rest of us will move on.

I'm really thinking that Fuji is just keeping the DSLR alive for apperance sake.

coolpixboy · Sep 25, 2006

maxz said:
that difference is pretty huge... Wonder why Fuji never advertised
the sensor as extended DR AND higher resolution than traditional
6MP cams... looks like that silkpix engine got every bit of juice
out of that amazing sensor...
Anyone seen any comparison between the silkypix honeycomb
conversion and typical 6-10 MP cameras?

Ideally, it would be great if someone who owns both the D200 and S3 pro could take a RAW capture of the same subject with the same lens on each camera and provide the RAW files for us to evaluate.

coolpixboy · Sep 25, 2006

Bernie Ess said:
etto72 said:

noise at high iso better of any other camera,even better DR,better
tonality,even better color

Click to expand...

Where did you read it has better DR? it has not - still 400% = 2
additional stops. Which is fine by 2004's standards, like the S3,
but no progress.

still better than the competition for the foreseable future.

Bernie Ess said:
Technological standstill. Dissappointing.

Bernie

Walter Freiberger · Sep 25, 2006

exactly....

what if the S5 has similar resolution as the D200/D80/400D and similar noise levels as the 5D?

all that in the great D200 body...

not too bad !!!

Regards
Walter

etto72 said:
I'm like many of you a bit disorientated about the fact that the
new S5 has still the same 6+6 sensore design of the S3

But in the other hand

If they have pushed (like they claim) the quality even higher:
noise at high iso better of any other camera,even better DR,better
tonality,even better color
.....would you be disappointed?
I would not!!

As we know the main priority for Fujifilm is quality not
quantity and i think they are the only one that really think
different about it
I have the felling that the image quality of this camera will be
one of the best among all the Dslr

There is also an other thing we should consider when we speak about Mp
We all know that the 6+6 of the S3 corresponds at a resolution
between 8 to 9 MP of a standard sensor, now ....what about if the
6+6 sensor of the new S5 reaches even a higher resolution,lets
say between 11 to 12mp ,wouldn't be enough for most of us?
I think before putting down the new S5 we should wait to see what
it can really do

Thanks for listening
Ettore

maxz · Sep 25, 2006

S5...

etto72 · Sep 25, 2006

Bernie Ess said:
etto72 said:

noise at high iso better of any other camera,even better DR,better
tonality,even better color

Click to expand...

Where did you read it has better DR? it has not - still 400% = 2
additional stops. Which is fine by 2004's standards, like the S3,
but no progress.

Technological standstill. Dissappointing.

Bernie

Just read the press release:

"Fujifilm’s Super CCD SR II will be updated to the new Super CCD SR Pro. Using a unique layout of twelve million paired photodiodes (6.17 million larger ‘S’ photodiodes for main image information, combined with 6.17 million smaller ‘R’ photodiodes for bright area information), the S5 Pro will deliver improvements in noise, dynamic range, colour and tonality"

GagBagger · Sep 25, 2006

Fuji plays the megapixel game too. That's why they quote "12.3 Effective Megapixels" for the S3/S5 when everyone in the universe knows this is a marketing farce. Compare these "effective megapixels" to REAL megapixels like the D2x and Canon 5D and the results are clear.

However, that said, going with the benchmark D200 body and an already superb 6MP sensor isn't the end of the world. Fuji have unequivocally delared, with the release of the S5, that they are gripping tightly to the tiny niche they serve so well without apology -- the wedding/portrait shooter. So those hoping to "keep up with the Joneses" in the MP race are the ones who are going to be disappointed.

I would've been nice to get an improved sensor along the lines of readouts so a faster framerate could've been employed, but again the niche market Fuji is targeting rarely needs such speedy features.

Brendan
--

I am funny as all get-out. If you don't laugh at what I have to say it is you who have the problem -- not me.

Wait before complaining about the S5

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