Why do you guys keep underevaluating Sony?

I find it funny that althought all major review sites, magazines etc give great analysis and conclusions about the Alpha, but some of you guys keep underevaluting all the great things about this camera. Ok, the kit lens is not much of thing, but for example some of you love the Nikon D200 and hate the Alpha but both cameras have the same sensor.

I know Sony doesn´t have a tradition in DSLR manufacturing but neither did Canon when they made their first DSLR. Come on guys and give Sony a break. Try to analyse the camera without looking at the brand.

I recently bought an Alpha but before buying it i was very confused about some of the opinions about the camera. Some said it had great features but lousy image, then came the noise issue at ISO1600 and recently even the number of posts and time between posts in the Sony DSLR forum has been used has an argument that people don´t like Sony. I know Canon is problably the best brand in DSLR cameras but give Sony a break.

As seen in this forum, the Alpha can produce amazing pics even with the kit lens. It has numerous configuration options, great features such as the SSS, DRO and CCD-cleaning.

Buscapeh said:

I find it funny that althought all major review sites, magazines
etc give great analysis and conclusions about the Alpha, but some
of you guys keep underevaluting all the great things about this
camera. Ok, the kit lens is not much of thing, but for example
some of you love the Nikon D200 and hate the Alpha but both cameras
have the same sensor.

Click to expand...

Not quite. The D80 and the Alpha 100 share the same sensor, but the D200 uses a variant that's a little different. But your comment misses a point: image quality for in-camera shots is not all about the sensor. The imaging ASIC makes a difference, and there is indeed a difference between the Nikons and the Sony in that respect (ditto Canon and Sony, though they don't use the same sensor).

--
Thom Hogan
author, Nikon Field Guide & Nikon Flash Guide
editor, Nikon DSLR Report
author, Complete Guides: D50, D70, D100, D200, D1 series, D2h, D2x, S2 Pro
http://www.bythom.com

No he is not missing the point; you're clinging to a side-point, and missing his main point entirely.

The point is that the Sony Alpha is a great camera, so why can't people stop arguing and whinging about it so much?

Most of the complainers don't even own one, so why are they in this forum in the first place?
--
Stuart / the Two Truths
http://www.flickr.com/photos/two_truths/
http://two-truths.deviantart.com/gallery/

that´s quite it. I can´t seem to understand why so many of us (photography lovers) keep coming to a Sony SLR forum posting about other cameras, trying to find several issues to underevaluate Sony.

Do u have something against Sony? Is that it?

As i said before: try and give sony a break!

I know the sensor is not quite the same in Alpha D80 and D200 but what is the problem? The Alpha can produce pics with the same quality as those cameras or even better in commonly used ISOs and with the same lense.

What i´m trying to say is that it looks as if there is some people with a conspiracy to underevaluate Sony just because it doesn´t have a tradition in DSLR production.

Maybe it´s just me and this is not happening but look at this forum and see if you don´t find stuff that i talk about.

Just look at this example. With no desrespect for the author, i think this is pathetic in a serious forum like this:

"Forum Sony SLR Talk
Subject Sony loosing interest?
Posted by claudio rio [CLICK FOR PROFILE]
Date/Time 3:23:41 AM, Saturday, September 23, 2006 (GMT)

Just checked right now the first page of other forums with the last 30 posts:

Sony SLR Talk Forum:
Last message: 1 min
first message: 14 hs

Canon EOS 400D/350D/300D Forum:
Last message: 2 min
first message: 3 hs

Nikon D80/D70/D50 Forum:
Last message: 1 min
first message: 2 hs

Pentax SLR Talk Forum
Last message: 3 min
first message: 2 hs

14hs/ 2hs ...I think Sony is not shaking so much th dslr market as expected... "

Brand equity is a powerful thing. For decades, American drivers only believe the big three from Detroit built real cars. It took Toyota and Honda decades to have the perception change. Interesting enough, these days, GM and Ford are really catching up with the top Japanese rivals, but once again it is the mysterious brand equity working against Detroit.

Well, in SLR world, Canon and Nikon certainly have the superior brand equity. Brand equity means that the users are very acceptable and very tolerant to many issues, big or small, dead shutter, batteries overheating, dead pixel… etc. So, it appears to me that Sony needs to build stronger brand equity in SLR world. Certainly Carl Zeiss lens is a good start, but Sony and the rest of us still have a very long way to go.

Cheers,
Simon

Sure, but users, especially advanced users have to give Sony a chance and stop pounding on the same keys over and over again especially the ISO1600 noise key.

I say advanced users should look and try the Alpha without thinking of its brand, name or whatever could influence their opinion. Just look and try what you have in your hands. The image quality, techs, configurations, etc. and then give an honest opinion about the product.

Cheers,
Buscapeh

Buscapeh said:

Sure, but users, especially advanced users have to give Sony a
chance and stop pounding on the same keys over and over again
especially the ISO1600 noise key.

I say advanced users should look and try the Alpha without thinking
of its brand, name or whatever could influence their opinion. Just
look and try what you have in your hands. The image quality, techs,
configurations, etc. and then give an honest opinion about the
product.

Cheers,
Buscapeh

Click to expand...

True but remember that DSLR is a system and not just a camera like a P&S. The system needs to be complete, affordable and supported. Sony's purchase of KM's system provides them with a fairly complete system. I think they need to add SSM to many more lenses than they currently have announced. I also think there are a few holes in the lens lineup that need to be filled. Affordable is hit and miss. I think a lot of Sony's accessories are overpriced especially their higher end lenses. Support remains to be seen.

I'm not sure if I'm one of the people not allowed to share my opinion since I don't own an A100. Well, when Sony bought the KM DSLR assets they bought me as well. I think I have every right to have and voice an opinion here.
--
KM 5D, KM 18-70, KM 28-75, KM 75-300, KM 50 1.7

sure u have a voice and we all aprecciate your opinion but i´m complaining about the people that get fony and stupid arguments to just simply degrade Sony and the Alpha just because they don´t have experience.

Specs are one thing but seeing and working with the camera is another thing.

Buscapeh said:

sure u have a voice and we all aprecciate your opinion but i´m
complaining about the people that get fony and stupid arguments to
just simply degrade Sony and the Alpha just because they don´t have
experience.

Specs are one thing but seeing and working with the camera is
another thing.

Click to expand...

You are right and it is tough on the internet to get the signal out of the noise. I wouldn't put it past manufacturers to sponsor this kinda thing but I imagine they don't have to. There are enough fanboy morons out there to do it for them.

People have to remember that in a competitive marketplace there are going to be ups and downs for all manufacturers. I try to point out where I see Sony's problems and hope they get addressed. I think the A100 is a great 1st camera. I'd like to see Sony's next because it will be very telling.

Keep shooting and ignore the morons.
--
KM 5D, KM 18-70, KM 28-75, KM 75-300, KM 50 1.7

The A100 seems a nice camera and competitive in the DSLR market. Many people, however, need to thrash out the issues for some time before purchasing, because the investment is considerable. Personally, I get interested in each new camera, but haven't yet found one to suit me completely. It won't be a conventional DSLR. However, if Sony were to incorporate the image processing of the A100 into the R1, and build it with the alpha lens mount, I think I would have to get on board the Sony train.

BL

Simple...a lot of people care more about "bragging rights" than they do about the actual camera or making images. Sadly it's just human nature.

Thom Hogan said:

Buscapeh said:

I find it funny that althought all major review sites, magazines
etc give great analysis and conclusions about the Alpha, but some
of you guys keep underevaluting all the great things about this
camera. Ok, the kit lens is not much of thing, but for example
some of you love the Nikon D200 and hate the Alpha but both cameras
have the same sensor.

Click to expand...

Not quite. The D80 and the Alpha 100 share the same sensor, but the
D200 uses a variant that's a little different. But your comment
misses a point: image quality for in-camera shots is not all about
the sensor. The imaging ASIC makes a difference, and there is
indeed a difference between the Nikons and the Sony in that respect
(ditto Canon and Sony, though they don't use the same sensor).

--
Thom Hogan
author, Nikon Field Guide & Nikon Flash Guide
editor, Nikon DSLR Report
author, Complete Guides: D50, D70, D100, D200, D1 series, D2h, D2x,
S2 Pro
http://www.bythom.com

Click to expand...

We need cheerleaders!

Actually, people don't under-evaluate the good things. That's why we know and recognize the good things.

They just aren't ignoring the bad things. It's slow, and could use more buffer. The high iso can't be completely replaced by an AS system. There's no real indication that the flash problems have been solved and the proposed lens pricing seems to be higher than it was under KM. And some of the desireable lenses seem to have been dropped and many aren't yet available so we can't tell what pricing will settle at. Sony has made a pretty good start but they also are going to have to deal with the desires and expectations of the KM crowd.

Sony has set out what they intend to do and has picked up the a mount mantle. They aren't going to get a lot of chances. Nikon, Canon, Oly and Pentax aren't going to wait for them. They dawdle along and they'll be left behind.

fjbyrne said:

I think the A100 is a great 1st camera. I'd like to see Sony's next
because it will be very telling.

Click to expand...

I criticize Sony when I feel they are screwing up.

I would like them to succeed. I do not really want to give up
my investment in Minolta lenses and flashes.

But, that does not mean that I will shut up when I see something
that pushes my buttons. That is one of the strengths.... AND
weaknesses... of the Internet. You can mouth off on the spur of
the moment, and prove what an idiot you are before you can
get your thoughts straight.

Lord Knows, I have been in that boat a few times.

I usually pull in my horns and disappear off the radar for a while.

)

But, Sony has a few things to work out. Pricing is one. Selection
is another.

We have yet to see whether Sony is really, really committed to
developing this camera line, and making everyone one big happy
family, like they are over on the Nikon and Canon Forums (my
tongue in firmly implanted in my cheek!)

Anyway, you are correct... we should not be quite so critical about
what is basically a good first attempt. As someone on here said,
they took what was... according to reviewers at least... a great
little camera, the KM 5D, and improved it. They did it amazingly
quickly and tried to get it out amazingly fast. Only a giant like
Sony could have pulled it off as quickly as they did. I don't think
most give a thought to the huge amount of variables that Sony
had to juggle to get this to happen. A year may seem like a long
time, but in the corporate world, it often takes years and years
to produce something. Sony could NOT have done it without
basing a zillion things on the Minolta/Konica Minolta legacy. I hope
they are wise enough to listen to the Minolta guys they inherited,
and not just blow them off. Minolta may have been poor at
implementing their cameras, but they certainly produced wonderful
cameras... easily the match for anything Canon or Nikon produced.
They just did not seem to know how to market what they had.

Unfortunately.

And, the AF law suit fiasco really did not help the cash flow...... ))

So, A100 forever, well, until the A???? gets here.

--
Gil
Sardis, BC
Canada

Craig Gillette said:

Sony has set out what they intend to do and has picked up the a
mount mantle.

Click to expand...

They should take a page from Pentax's book, and lay out a
roadmap for the future. Pentax did not always have one, and
to see they do now, gives Pentax users a bit of confidence and
hope in looking to the future. It does look good for Pentax.

Sony could make it look good for the KM/Sony future too!

Craig Gillette said:

They aren't going to get a lot of chances. Nikon,
Canon, Oly and Pentax aren't going to wait for them. They dawdle
along and they'll be left behind.

Click to expand...

That is so, so true! I don't know what N&C hope to do in the
future, but looking at the Pentax forum, it sounds hopeful.

Sony should clearly lay out their plans for the Alpha line, so to give
confidence to potential buyers. If people can see what is planned,
they will buy into the system if it looks like it HAS a future clearly
marked. We are losing long time Minolta users because thay cannot
see any future. That can be turned around.

--
Gil
Sardis, BC
Canada

Make sure potential future customers understand that they are not now satisfied with what they now have.

-gt

Sorry, my bad. When I said most of the complainers don't own a Sony Alpha 100 I should have said that they don't own an Alpha camera.

I think it's perfectly valid for current Alpha camera users to be using the forum. I just don't see it as being valid for Canon / Pentax / Nikon users to be posting so frequently.
--
Stuart / the Two Truths
http://www.flickr.com/photos/two_truths/
http://two-truths.deviantart.com/gallery/

Agree 100%. I'm no fanboy of any camera company. I try to call it like I see it.
--
KM 5D, KM 18-70, KM 28-75, KM 75-300, KM 50 1.7

i think you are right. .a roadmap from sony would certainly
help put a lot of FUD to rest

of course, maybe they aren't showing their roadmap,
because its too thin at this point...

what i've heard so far is:
1) no new body from sony this year
2) a list of lens that falls far short of what KM had already
been producing.
3) a lot of the lens pricing makes no sense...
4) and why make them FF??? this just confuses the
entire situation...it gives people hope - perhaps
false hope - of a FF body coming out...but in the
meantime, the FF lens will be more expensive,
be heavier, and not be able to handle the range
of the DC type lenses.
5) how long does sony think it will work, saying the sony
brand has 15 million lenses?? that worked a lot better
before the ebay prices shot up...and wait until all the sob
stories start showing up...i recently paid $700USD for a second
hand lens, and now the appurature blades are sticking...luckily
the seller offers a 30 day warranty and has good feedback score,
so i hope they'll make good, otherwise its $110 at KEH to have
it repaired (i do really like this lens...and sony should still be selling
them, with and without G glass).

check out what tamron and sigma are releasing...
they aren't fighting the sensor size, they are taking
advantage of it to produce better, lighter, faster, less
expensive, and smaller lenses.

if you don't have a FF body, why spend the extra money
for the pleasure of carring all that extra, unneeded
wt around...

Aye, Sigma's 50-150mm F2.8 lens is brilliant, by my view!

£100 less than the Sigma 70-700mm F2.8
and about half the weight!

--
Stuart / the Two Truths
http://www.flickr.com/photos/two_truths/
http://two-truths.deviantart.com/gallery/

--
Stuart / the Two Truths
http://www.flickr.com/photos/two_truths/
http://two-truths.deviantart.com/gallery/