Reading mode: Light Dark

Difference between fz50 and V-LUX 1 from the horses mouth

Go to last post
B

bob fel

Forum Enthusiast
Messages
367
Reaction score
0
Location
new jersey, NJ, US
This text is from e-mail that i recieved from Lica corporate:

Thank you for your interest in the new Leica V Lux 1 camera.It is true that Panasonic does have similar model.The 2 cameras not only look slightly different,but the basic settings in the firmware of the cameras are different.The option in the "Image Settings" of the camera is clearly different and adapted to the needs of the Leica customer.The true to life reproduction of skin tones and realistioc colors are the main attention getter.

The V Lux 1 will be packaged with Adobe Photoshop Elements 4, and a 512MB sd memory card. The warrenty is 2 years

Dave Elwell
Leica camera inc/ parts & technical info
 
Difference in 'image settings' could be the only real difference. About true to life color and skin tone - FZ50 already does that.
aftab
 
so what I'm hearing is that pany allowed leica to upstage them, intentionally, by crippling its own brand. there's zero reason, other than marketing, for why the identical hardware would have diff firmware.

thanks panny. thanks a lot.

(sheesh. I just lost a notch of respect for pany, if that is really true.)

--
Bryan (pics only: http://www.flickr.com/photos/linux-works )
(pics and more: http://www.netstuff.org ) ~
 
linuxworks said:
so what I'm hearing is that pany allowed leica to upstage them,
intentionally, by crippling its own brand. there's zero reason,
other than marketing, for why the identical hardware would have
diff firmware.

thanks panny. thanks a lot.

(sheesh. I just lost a notch of respect for pany, if that is
really true.)

--
Bryan (pics only: http://www.flickr.com/photos/linux-works )
(pics and more: http://www.netstuff.org ) ~
Click to expand...
Bryan, you understand this firmware stuff better than I do. But my understanding would be that the basic image processing would be same in both cameras. My guess is that 'clearly different Image Setting" is the leica name for Pic Adjustment settings in FZs. If thats the case then there may be slight difference in JPEG images depending on settings used, nothing major.
aftab
 
aftab said:
linuxworks said:
so what I'm hearing is that pany allowed leica to upstage them,
intentionally, by crippling its own brand. there's zero reason,
other than marketing, for why the identical hardware would have
diff firmware.

thanks panny. thanks a lot.

(sheesh. I just lost a notch of respect for pany, if that is
really true.)
Click to expand...
Bryan, you understand this firmware stuff better than I do. But my
understanding would be that the basic image processing would be
same in both cameras. My guess is that 'clearly different Image
Setting" is the leica name for Pic Adjustment settings in FZs. If
thats the case then there may be slight difference in JPEG images
depending on settings used, nothing major.
Click to expand...
that email/post implied that color balance was 'better' and that there really was a different firmware inside that controls the engine. so even if you have 2 porsche boxster engines, if you feed one cr@ppy gas and the other good gas, well, they're BOTH the same engines so they'll both perform the same, RIGHT??? ;)

so if the leica tweaks are not just menu organizations or eye-candy for the user - but real tweaks to parameters that guide and control the engines inside, then that DOES make the cam different; and intentionally different just for a fake marketing plateau. just to rake in more money by artifically created value.

I never would have expected pany/leica to be evil like this. but it is evil - and I'm not ashamed to call them on that. when pany does good, I'm happy to say so. but to be fair, you also have to call them on their 'stuff'. and here is when I'm calling them on it. this just plain stinks. even though I don't have an fz50, I'd be hopping mad if I did own one, only to find my brand-of-choice intentionally 'pulled a Canon' on me (ha ha! just coined a phrase) ;) ;)

really - it was canon's job to hobble their own cameras based on marketing (see G7 and even s80). pany was supposed to be above that. but I guess not, huh?

--
Bryan (pics only: http://www.flickr.com/photos/linux-works )
(pics and more: http://www.netstuff.org ) ~
 
I'm looking forward to seeing just what differences are in the Leica...

It's hard for me to think that the huge Panasonic electronics company will somehow be outgunned by whoever is putting the unique tweak in Leica's firmware and settings...

This isn't the first computerized electronic imaging device that Pan has produced...

--
OK, I admit it... I capture souls with my camera!
Roy NN7DX
2 DSLR's and 12x super zooms...
Now the pixels are really hitting the fan...
 
It would be a shame if it really turns out like that. But what pana could do? They are using Leica lens and that is one of their major selling points. So, if leica says, look, you use our lens, but you will have to let us use your camera and engine and also we are going to tweak the engine the way we want.
I wonder if should have waited for the leica version.
aftab



http://www.flickr.com/photos/aftab/
http://aftab.smugmug.com
 
linuxworks said:
aftab said:
linuxworks said:
so what I'm hearing is that pany allowed leica to upstage them,
intentionally, by crippling its own brand. there's zero reason,
other than marketing, for why the identical hardware would have
diff firmware.

thanks panny. thanks a lot.

(sheesh. I just lost a notch of respect for pany, if that is
really true.)
Click to expand...
Bryan, you understand this firmware stuff better than I do. But my
understanding would be that the basic image processing would be
same in both cameras. My guess is that 'clearly different Image
Setting" is the leica name for Pic Adjustment settings in FZs. If
thats the case then there may be slight difference in JPEG images
depending on settings used, nothing major.
Click to expand...
that email/post implied that color balance was 'better' and that
there really was a different firmware inside that controls the
engine. so even if you have 2 porsche boxster engines, if you feed
one cr@ppy gas and the other good gas, well, they're BOTH the same
engines so they'll both perform the same, RIGHT??? ;)

so if the leica tweaks are not just menu organizations or eye-candy
for the user - but real tweaks to parameters that guide and control
the engines inside, then that DOES make the cam different; and
intentionally different just for a fake marketing plateau. just to
rake in more money by artifically created value.

I never would have expected pany/leica to be evil like this. but
it is evil - and I'm not ashamed to call them on that. when pany
does good, I'm happy to say so. but to be fair, you also have to
call them on their 'stuff'. and here is when I'm calling them on
it. this just plain stinks. even though I don't have an fz50, I'd
be hopping mad if I did own one, only to find my brand-of-choice
intentionally 'pulled a Canon' on me (ha ha! just coined a phrase)
;) ;)

really - it was canon's job to hobble their own cameras based on
marketing (see G7 and even s80). pany was supposed to be above
that. but I guess not, huh?

--
Bryan (pics only: http://www.flickr.com/photos/linux-works )
(pics and more: http://www.netstuff.org ) ~
Click to expand...
I feel very much the same way about this situation, but firmware hacking should be relatively easy if all the hardware is the same. Otherwise dangerous and practically impossible.

Computer/electronic companies and others have done this kind of stuff for awhile now though, it is cheaper to have one product line with multiple firmwares to impose fake limitations then to have various product lines all with different hardware whether the hardware changes are small or big it is cheaper just to fake it with a simple firmware and that is exactly what they did. And any color enhancements they did is probably a very moot point since with software I always fix the color and everything to my liking. But at least the package deal offsets the extra cost, unless you already have the software and don't need the SD card as most don't.

Despite any color enhancing they have done, unless they fixed the over aggresive noise reduction this camera will have no merit over the current FZ50.

--
glitchbit: getting rid of the glitch bits



my image gallery will be up soon

 
Ok, the text from like directly tells me, that they tweaked the basic parameters of VE3 image processing.

What we can't expect, that the possibilities to alter the image processing for the user will be very different from the FZ50 as the VLUX offers the same basic adjustment possibilities as the FZ50 (sharpness, contrast, saturartion, noise reduction)

This means, there will be absolutely no difference in the RAW-files. For people shooting RAW the V-LUX won't offer any advantage.

If you shoot mainly JPG that firmware could be interesting, if they reduced the aggressive NR-settings of the FZ50 to a lower level.

Let's wait for the first test-photos to appear.

Gerd

--
----------------------------------------------------------
Let your own reasoning be your guide, not other people's opinions.
 
grrmpf Of course i wanted to write "The text from Leica ..."
--
----------------------------------------------------------
Let your own reasoning be your guide, not other people's opinions.
 
Roy NN7DX said:
I'm looking forward to seeing just what differences are in the
Leica...
It's hard for me to think that the huge Panasonic electronics
company will somehow be outgunned by whoever is putting the unique
tweak in Leica's firmware and settings...
Click to expand...
pany is the one running the design and build and production line. I can't believe leica 'snuck that in' on them. it HAD to be contractual, WAY WAY up front in the discussions. fully planned. has to be.

so it was a plot - a scheme, all along. 'lets intentionally DEVALUE one sister item for the sake of reddottiness.' sigh...

last time around, there was no verbage about one being better than the other. you can IMPLY all you want, but I don't remember seeing anything FROM THE VENDOR saying this. owners, sure, they WANT to think that extra $200 was worth it. but the vendors stayed silent.

now they speak up. perhaps they didn't like the fact that we 'knew better' and didn't see the value in overpaying for a marketing badge.

their reaction: either scam us (maybe there ARE no real tweaks inside but they just want to keep that shroud of doubt running); or actually they DO cripple one version of a product.

the only valid explanation I could accept would be if the firmware was really started as a common project but then forked (split) off and each company developed it further on their own.

but with firmware and integration schedules, usually you have to finalize any major changes in firmware about the time the hardware interfaces (asics, etc) are cast in stone (silicon, really) ;)

after that, if one had better firmware, there is no tech reason why they couldn't have taken the better of the two, gone back to re-brand them (put leica's name inside one and pany inside the other, plus any menu changes for one brand vs another) - but the core funct. and ability should NOT have been allowed to diverge and STAY diverged.

--
Bryan (pics only: http://www.flickr.com/photos/linux-works )
(pics and more: http://www.netstuff.org ) ~
 
aftab said:
It would be a shame if it really turns out like that. But what pana
could do? They are using Leica lens and that is one of their major
selling points.
Click to expand...
as I understand it, it was co-developed. neither party 'owns' that design - it was joint. always seems to have been that way, too. its not REALLY a leica lens, anyway; its a pany made and pany designed by leica APPROVED. that's the way I read the interview last year about the leica/pany collaboration. the story goes, pany designed and built 1 version of the lens, it 'wasn't good enough' for leica to accept so they re-did it. but pany DID run the show - they just needed leica, almost like a consultant, to agree.
aftab said:
So, if leica says, look, you use our lens, but you
will have to let us use your camera and engine and also we are
going to tweak the engine the way we want.
I wonder if should have waited for the leica version.
Click to expand...
THAT is what they want you to think! don't be manipulated.

I try to vote with my dollars. I find this scheme very distasteful and so even if the leica version was better, I'd probably wash my hands of the whole mess. the fz30 may very WELL be my last pany - I'm getting tired of these games pany is playing with us. I get the feeling there is too much dishonesty going around in pany, of late. ;(

--
Bryan (pics only: http://www.flickr.com/photos/linux-works )
(pics and more: http://www.netstuff.org ) ~
 
glitchbit said:
Computer/electronic companies and others have done this kind of
stuff for awhile now though, it is cheaper to have one product line
with multiple firmwares to impose fake limitations then to have
various product lines all with different hardware whether the
hardware changes are small or big it is cheaper just to fake it
with a simple firmware and that is exactly what they did.
Click to expand...
true story from the old computer lore. DEC built a computer (mini mainframe) called the VAX and they produced one two versions, a fast and a 'slow' version. of course the intention was to charge more for the faster one. and on the surface it makes sense, right?

until you learn that the only diff between them (it may have been the vax780 instead of the 750 series - it was a long time ago and I forget the model #, exactly) was that the slower version had NO-OP assembly instructions inserted here and there which cause the cpu to run a 'do nothing' instruction (no op = 'no operation') which adds no value to the computation but only slows it down.

the diff between those 2 machines was REALLY just firmware. BUT - when customers paid for an upgrade, field circus (I mean field service..) would go out, swap out THE WHOLE BACKPLANE (think of a machine as big as your closet, pretty much) and also change the firmware. the hardware swap was just to give 'a show' to the customer, for perception that their 5figure (or more) investment was really buying them something. it wasn't until years later that customers heard about this. those of us in DEC knew about this, of course..

that practice stunk back then and it still stinks, today.

--
Bryan (pics only: http://www.flickr.com/photos/linux-works )
(pics and more: http://www.netstuff.org ) ~
 
Bryan, once you figure out what your next camera is going to be when the time comes let us know. I am very interested in your opinion, though a year from now I can see myself getting a Pentax dSLR(currently the K100D) instead of another bridge camera unless things change. Bridge cameras have their purposes but so does a dSLR =).
--
glitchbit: getting rid of the glitch bits



my image gallery will be up soon

 
Typical company rep "bla,bla,bla dear customer" statement.
--
shape'n'colour
 
glitchbit said:
Bryan, once you figure out what your next camera is going to be
when the time comes let us know. I am very interested in your
opinion, though a year from now I can see myself getting a Pentax
dSLR(currently the K100D) instead of another bridge camera unless
things change. Bridge cameras have their purposes but so does a
dSLR =).
Click to expand...
I'm very keenly watch the k10d. but I want to be sure its going to at least equal what I get from the pany I use. I've done some very informal macro tests (for example) and I have to say - I have not seen the dslr TRULY beat the digicam. so, for now, I'm watching with interest but I insist that I get a SIGNIFICANT performance boost or it just isn't worth the hassle to switch (or add, since I won't ever sell my fz30, I don't think).

I'm hoping that I could get a gain like you'd get from 35mm film to medium format film. if going from digicam to slr (for macro shots) isn't going to get me a HUGE wow-factor, then I'll just stay put ;)

but as for pany's future, I am not overly impressed with their decision making and design choices. unless they have something really new under wraps, this year has been pretty underwhelming for me, in pany new-product land. they seem to have spent MUCH more time on the pocket and smallish cams than the larger bridge ones (including lx series). I already have enough pocket cams to keep me happy; but I'd like to take my imaging to the next level and also NOT go slr unless there is no other choice.

maybe next year will show some new pany innovations that rekindle excitement for those of us who have been using pany gear for a while, now. this year has been mostly a 'yawn' for me, sadly to say.

in the meantime, I have my eye on a minolta A2 that I'm trying to work a deal out, on ;) word on the street has it that this is THE ultimate 'remote control' digicam. there is a strong hacker community (firmware! imagine that! for shame, panny, for shame...), the remote protocol is VERY rich and that cam has a cult following much like the pany 'golden' cams. problem is: KM is no longer a real company anymore and that model is long out of production - so its only on the used market, now; and even repairs are a big unknown to me (sony? ha! like I'd trust sony to fix anything of mine...). but fwiw, I'm hoping to grab an A2 and do a serious head-to-head compare with the fz30. should be interesting.. ;)

--
Bryan (pics only: http://www.flickr.com/photos/linux-works )
(pics and more: http://www.netstuff.org ) ~
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Keyboard shortcuts

f
Forum
m
My threads
Mobile site
About
Editorial content
Cameras & Lenses
Community
All content, design, and layout are Copyright © 1998–2025 Digital Photography Review All Rights Reserved.
Reproduction in whole or part in any form or medium without specific written permission is prohibited.
When you use DPReview links to buy products, the site may earn a commission.
©GPS Media - Guides, Products, Services.
Back
Top