Dawn at the lake - Maine

Greg VdB said:

Did that really bother you guys or was it just after long
examination that you noticed this because the image obviously has
had a bit of postprocessing in other respects? Really, I think
there are much more obvious alterations to this image than what you
are pointing out.

Click to expand...

I agree, the image has been altered considerably to the OP's personal taste. I was just agreeing that there was a light area that appears in the reflection in the water but not in the actual clouds, and pointed out that it appears to be due to some cloning. It certainly didn't take long to notice, either.

Greg VdB said:

I can
assume it was just some dirt floating on the water that was
disturbing or something.

Click to expand...

It's the clouds that appear to be cloaned, not the water.

Greg VdB said:

Anyway, this is a kind of shot that just
wants to please the eye and the way I look at it is just to let it
come to me without going "pixel peeping"...

Click to expand...

Yep, and that seems to be the OP's intention as well. As with others, though, it doesn't "come to me" at all, it just appears over-processed in every respect. I generally prefer a "straighter" image. But that's just my opinion and doesn't mean the OP hasn't accomplished what he was attempting to do.

Photography evaluation is a very subjective thing - there are many people who don't think Ansel Adams' work is anything special. I, OTOH, believe it is technically and aesthetically superb. The photographer's intention in making a photo is not always seen by a viewer, and that's okay too. It's art - people will make of it what they wish. Nobody's right or wrong.

Cheers,
-Rob

--
http://www.pinciuc.com/photos/
You see, the thing is, I'm an absolutist. Well, kind of... in a way...

Greg VdB said:

Greg VdB said:

Greg VdB said:

I see that, too. The sky appears to have a dark, oval-shaped spot
where the bright spot should be. And that dark oval appears to be
cloned in from directly to the left of it. I could be wrong, but
the clouds in those spots look way too similar to be natural.

Click to expand...

Yes, you have a sharp eye and have figured it out...I see exactly
what you are talking about, the cloned in oval. JClaude can easily
reverse this....as I said before, the basic image has potential.

Click to expand...

Did that really bother you guys or was it just after long
examination that you noticed this because the image obviously has
had a bit of postprocessing in other respects? Really, I think
there are much more obvious alterations to this image than what you
are pointing out. ( If you're right - I'm not even sure) I can
assume it was just some dirt floating on the water that was
disturbing or something. Anyway, this is a kind of shot that just
wants to please the eye and the way I look at it is just to let it
come to me without going "pixel peeping"...

Click to expand...

Hi Greg,
I did not want to be overly critical, but it really did bother me personally.

I just tried to figure out what it was that was causing the discord in my mind when I looked at it. The fact that the sky didn't match the water reflection of the sky was a problem. I normally wouldn't mind, but in this particular photo the water reflection was round and reminded me of a cave...when I looked to the sky...no rounded cave...my mind said..something is wrong.

When someone posts here, most are looking for some feedback; for me the constructive criticism given to one of my posts is the most valuable....it helps me to see what I may have missed and gives me information that may well help me with my next image.

It's very easy to say, "nice shot" and move on.....BUT in my opinion it's much more useful to the poster be honest and say what you like or don't like about an image. One bit of suggestion that may help the poster see something that he could improve on and perhaps didn't see on his own is worth ten "atta boys".

This is a forum where we all try to help each other. False encouragement is not helping IMHO.

I don't think thoughtful comments or suggestions (which take time to formulate and express), offered in a spirit of helpfulness is pixel peeping.
YMMD.

I said it before, this is a nice image with potential....I think it can be improved to become an even better image....at least one other poster felt the same.

The OP is free to disregard any and all advice, he is in charge and knows what he wants to accomplish.

I appreciate your comments of letting the "image just come to you"...nothing wrong with that either.
Regards,
Don
http://www.pbase.com/dond

I want to be clear....obviously, what I think is an "improvement" in an image, others may think makes the image worse. I can only say what I see in an image.

I also agree with Rob above, there is no "right or wrong"....sometimes it is just a matter of preference.

--
Don
http://www.pbase.com/dond

First off, I've just found this forum, after years of using Dpreview Seems like a useful unbiased forum for displaying images/galleries.

Now, the image is a good composition, but simply looks too over-processed. The first thing I noticed is the sky. What were highlights now have an unnatural grayness, this washed out quality seems to crop up quite a bit in HDR images. The best HDR images look natural IMO, and don't immediately shout 'HDR'! Also, there are strange purple areas on the top right, that almost look like the solarization effect in PS. Then there are the trees, that look overly green/yellow and somehow out of place (they are soft as well, but that could be jpg compression). They also have slight halos round the tops, another give away to poorly done HDR.

So, I tried to give some constructive criticism, and not a 2 word put down. Do you not think it looks at all over-processed? If not, that's fine, it's your image. All just IMHO

--
Cheers,
Dave.

Don_D said:

Hi Greg,
I did not want to be overly critical, but it really did bother me
personally.
I just tried to figure out what it was that was causing the discord
in my mind when I looked at it. The fact that the sky didn't match
the water reflection of the sky was a problem. I normally wouldn't
mind, but in this particular photo the water reflection was round
and reminded me of a cave...when I looked to the sky...no rounded
cave...my mind said..something is wrong.

Click to expand...

Real funny thing is, that IS the reflection, I did not alter it, just the sky and water were processed (only as far as light, color and contrast) as diferent masked layers in photoshop and ended up looking a bit diferent, so I guess it is your mind that is seeing things.

Don_D said:

When someone posts here, most are looking for some feedback; for > me the constructive criticism given to one of my posts is the most
valuable....it helps me to see what I may have missed and gives me
information that may well help me with my next image.
It's very easy to say, "nice shot" and move on.....BUT in my
opinion it's much more useful to the poster be honest and say what
you like or don't like about an image.

Click to expand...

Having an opinion is something, making (wrong) assumptions is totally diferent and criossed in a all diferent level.

Don_D said:

One bit of suggestion that
may help the poster see something that he could improve on and
perhaps didn't see on his own is worth ten "atta boys".
This is a forum where we all try to help each other. False
encouragement is not helping IMHO.

Click to expand...

You are new here right ?? Check some regualr's posts, some are simply terrible, but the "huuuuu" and "haaaaas" are endles, why ? because they will do the same to most any image they lay theyr eyes on and expect (and get) and same in return, I obviously do not play that game.

Don_D said:

I don't think thoughtful comments or suggestions (which take time
to formulate and express), offered in a spirit of helpfulness is
pixel peeping.

Click to expand...

I agree with that. But again, as long as based on facts and not assumptions.

Don_D said:

YMMD.
I said it before, this is a nice image with potential....I think it
can be improved to become an even better image....at least one
other poster felt the same.

Click to expand...

But that "better" possible image would basically depend on your point of view, not mine, I wanted to acomplish something and I felt well enought about it to post it, if not I would have posted "help me make this better" not having done that one could have thought I was fairly happy with the image as it is.

It looks un-natural ? So do "draganized" images and a lot of poeple still like them right ??

I think it comes down to a matter of tone and how condescending some poeple can get, specialy with some "holier than tough" personalities that are, regratably, abundant in these boards.

It is not the comment that bother me, it is the package it comes wrapped in that does.

Don_D said:

The OP is free to disregard any and all advice, he is in charge and
knows what he wants to accomplish.
I appreciate your comments of letting the "image just come to
you"...nothing wrong with that either.
Regards,
Don

Click to expand...

--
JClaude
http://www.opusmeum.com
Personal Creative
Rule of engagemant #4:

'My latest picture' / gallery / multiple images - Unless it's discussion of a specific technique or setup please do not post 'here's my latest picture / gallery' type posts in the camera specific forums, instead please use the Samples & Galleries forum.

JClaude said:

But that "better" possible image would basically depend on your
point of view, not mine,

Click to expand...

Agreed, it's the only way I can offer input to you. I tried to say several times that it was only my opinion, what I saw and felt.

JClaude said:

I wanted to acomplish something and I felt
well enought about it to post it, if not I would have posted "help
me make this better" not having done that one could have thought I
was fairly happy with the image as it is.
It looks un-natural ? So do "draganized" images and a lot of poeple
still like them right ??

Click to expand...

I'm not sure what "draganized" means, but I personally like many highly processed photos.

JClaude said:

I think it comes down to a matter of tone and how condescending
some poeple can get, specialy with some "holier than tough"
personalities that are, regratably, abundant in these boards.

It is not the comment that bother me, it is the package it comes
wrapped in that does.

Click to expand...

JCluade, I apologize for being condescending. I can see that you could take my comments that way although that is the last thing I wanted to do.

I am also sorry that you cannot take my observations about your work in the helpful spirit in which they were intended.

Don
http://www.pbase.com/dond

Shitt a Brickkk, you 2 are really going at it. White balance or not, day or not, heck, middle of the night, does it really matter ? This is digital photography and the best part is tweeking pictures and this one looks awesome. Great Shot, I'd be proud.
http://www.billgass.com

JClaude said:

Real funny thing is, that IS the reflection, I did not alter it,
just the sky and water were processed (only as far as light, color
and contrast) as diferent masked layers in photoshop and ended up
looking a bit diferent, so I guess it is your mind that is seeing
things.

Click to expand...

Is it really? What does your mind see when the cloned area is placed over top of the original area in this animation?



Looks like a little more than colour and contrast to me. An oval selection of the area directly to the right was made, then copied and pasted over the area to the left and animated. Wouldn't you know, the clouds fit perfectly into two different spots?!

I detest being lied to.

Why do you resort to lying in defense of your image? You can do what you like to your photos, it's your prerogative and nobody's saying otherwise, but don't lie to us when it's clear you have made other significant changes, it's insulting and it ruins your credibility.

Normally I wouldn't care less what someone did to their photo, but when you blatently (and to be frank, obviously) lie to my face, I will not stand for it.

--
http://www.pinciuc.com/photos/
You see, the thing is, I'm an absolutist. Well, kind of... in a way...

I'm nowhere near a professional photographer, which is maybe why I'm not looking at the picture from a very technical point of view, but I really like the picture. I don't really care whether the trees are soft, or it's not dawn or whatever... I think it creates a very powerful impression.

True, it doesn't look real, but that was obviously the point. What's wrong with a heavily-processed picture?

I say, good work!

Dave.

JClaude said:

Don_D said:

I did not want to be overly critical, but it really did bother me
personally.
I just tried to figure out what it was that was causing the discord
in my mind when I looked at it. The fact that the sky didn't match
the water reflection of the sky was a problem. I normally wouldn't
mind, but in this particular photo the water reflection was round
and reminded me of a cave...when I looked to the sky...no rounded
cave...my mind said..something is wrong.

Click to expand...

Real funny thing is, that IS the reflection, I did not alter it,
just the sky and water were processed (only as far as light, color
and contrast) as diferent masked layers in photoshop and ended up
looking a bit diferent, so I guess it is your mind that is seeing
things.

Click to expand...

As was always very obvious, I was not seeing things.

JClaude said:

Having an opinion is something, making (wrong) assumptions is
totally diferent and criossed in a all diferent level.

Click to expand...

My assumption was not wrong. I think you owe me two apologies:

1) for denying that you altered the image by cloning in the sky when it was explictedly pointed out to you;

2) for accusing me of having a wrong assumption when you knew that was not the case.

JClaude said:

You are new here right ??

Click to expand...

I have been on dpreview a bit longer than you.

Don
http://www.pbase.com/dond

Already did, what more do you guys want ?
WHAT MORE DO YOU GUYS WANT OF ME ???

Don_D said:

Don_D said:

Having an opinion is something, making (wrong) assumptions is
totally diferent and criossed in a all diferent level.

Click to expand...

My assumption was not wrong. I think you owe me two apologies:

1) for denying that you altered the image by cloning in the sky
when it was explictedly pointed out to you;

2) for accusing me of having a wrong assumption when you knew that
was not the case.

Don_D said:

You are new here right ??

Click to expand...

I have been on dpreview a bit longer than you.

Click to expand...

--
JClaude
http://www.opusmeum.com
Personal Creative
Rule of engagemant #4:

'My latest picture' / gallery / multiple images - Unless it's discussion of a specific technique or setup please do not post 'here's my latest picture / gallery' type posts in the camera specific forums, instead please use the Samples & Galleries forum.

JClaude said:

Already did

Click to expand...

Where? I must have missed it.

JClaude said:

WHAT MORE DO YOU GUYS WANT OF ME ???

Click to expand...

Honesty..

Don
http://www.pbase.com/dond

You must be under some drug or something and I ow you nothing, nada, rien. Read my freaking previous answers and you will see, you are out of your mind if you think I would address each of you obnoxious persons demands one at the time!!!

You trully are a sad person, the way your are persuing this makes it seems like you must trully have an empty pathetic life and find some joy in harrassing people in forums like this, I have pitty for you!!
Go out, stop harrassing people and try not to be so pathetic.

Don_D said:

JClaude said:

Already did

Click to expand...

Where? I must have missed it.

Don_D said:

WHAT MORE DO YOU GUYS WANT OF ME ???

Click to expand...

Honesty..

Click to expand...

--
JClaude
http://www.opusmeum.com
Personal Creative
Rule of engagemant #4:

'My latest picture' / gallery / multiple images - Unless it's discussion of a specific technique or setup please do not post 'here's my latest picture / gallery' type posts in the camera specific forums, instead please use the Samples & Galleries forum.

At first glance I really liked the photo and immediately assumed photoshop pp work was done to achieve a certain look. The photo has a surreal feeling more like an oil painting than a digital photo. Do you have painting experience? I know for myself that sometimes odd colors in an oil painting can do interesting things... and sometimes, not usually, but sometimes I bring that into my photography.

As far as picky technical stuff, yes there is some work to be done, but so what, I can say that about my own photos also. I like your idea and can see where you are coming from. I might change the photo's title, maybe.

Unfortunately I have no painting experience, whish I had though but Ijust do not have the talent :-/ but yes, I like this surreal look, something that you know is not possible, it was not really there and will never be, but you just ike it because it is nice (but truth be said, the sky in Maine can do amazing things are dawn and dusk).

Like I mentioned before I will do new work on this image because I still like it a lot and some suggesitons given were taken into consideration.

And yes, I will eventually go around renaming it as it should, to "Dusk at the lake" since it was the time it was taken, but honestly right now, this image has brough me too much grief so that I do not feel like doing anyting with it right now, some people just seem to take too much pleasure in spoiling it for others.

graycatt said:

At first glance I really liked the photo and immediately assumed
photoshop pp work was done to achieve a certain look. The photo
has a surreal feeling more like an oil painting than a digital
photo. Do you have painting experience? I know for myself that
sometimes odd colors in an oil painting can do interesting
things... and sometimes, not usually, but sometimes I bring that
into my photography.

As far as picky technical stuff, yes there is some work to be done,
but so what, I can say that about my own photos also. I like your
idea and can see where you are coming from. I might change the
photo's title, maybe.

Click to expand...

--
JClaude
http://www.opusmeum.com
Personal Creative
Rule of engagemant #4:

'My latest picture' / gallery / multiple images - Unless it's discussion of a specific technique or setup please do not post 'here's my latest picture / gallery' type posts in the camera specific forums, instead please use the Samples & Galleries forum.

Well, don't get discouraged. Unfortunately there are some rotten people on here that are a little less constructive in criticism, but as is in the rest of life you just have to filter some of that out. Don't let people's criticism talk you out of persuing your creative abilities, you definately have talent, just keep working on it. Just go and take more photos... lots and lots. I only keep around five to ten percent of the photos I take and even then many are not super, but I love taking photos and although I don't usually get much responses on here, I have had many good compliments from professionals. So, it just depends on the crowd you are areound kind of.

-Aaron

If you read the whole thread, you'll see that all anyone offered was constructive criticism. It is JClaude who became hopelessly defensive and took it upon himself to make personal attacks on anybody who made the slightest bit of criticism.

-Rob

--
http://www.pinciuc.com/photos/
You see, the thing is, I'm an absolutist. Well, kind of... in a way...

I see.

There was nothing sligh, asked, wished or expected about your crisitcism, If going to the extreme of making any animation of my image (which by the way you are not authorized to do) is a "slightest" whatever, you are very wrong.

Rob P said:

If you read the whole thread, you'll see that all anyone offered
was constructive criticism. It is JClaude who became hopelessly
defensive and took it upon himself to make personal attacks on
anybody who made the slightest bit of criticism.

-Rob

Click to expand...

--
JClaude
http://www.opusmeum.com
Personal Creative
Rule of engagemant #4:

'My latest picture' / gallery / multiple images - Unless it's discussion of a specific technique or setup please do not post 'here's my latest picture / gallery' type posts in the camera specific forums, instead please use the Samples & Galleries forum.

JClaude said:

There was nothing sligh, asked, wished or expected about your
crisitcism, If going to the extreme of making any animation of my
image (which by the way you are not authorized to do) is a
"slightest" whatever, you are very wrong.

Click to expand...

The ONLY criticism I offered was the following:

"Yep, and that seems to be the OP's intention as well. As with others, though, it doesn't "come to me" at all, it just appears over-processed in every respect. I generally prefer a "straighter" image. But that's just my opinion and doesn't mean the OP hasn't accomplished what he was attempting to do.

Photography evaluation is a very subjective thing - there are many people who don't think Ansel Adams' work is anything special. I, OTOH, believe it is technically and aesthetically superb. The photographer's intention in making a photo is not always seen by a viewer, and that's okay too. It's art - people will make of it what they wish. Nobody's right or wrong."

From: http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1005&message=20110865

That seems pretty slight to me.

It's okay for people to say they like your image, but it's not okay for someone to say they don't? I didn't say it was bad, I just said it doesn't speak to me, it's not my style. I think I was very objective and gentle in my assessment of your image, and in return you've started a war.

Well, JClaude, I'm not going to back down from my stance, and if you want to fight a war then I'm up for the task. There are many sensible people/artists on this forum, and they'll see you for the immature brat that couldn't handle a couple of gently phrased questions and criticisms and then chose to launch personal attacks on their authors.

The only way you're going to get me off your back now is to apologize for the personal attacks you've made, slandering me in this and other threads. I expect you to post apologies in all of your threads where you've mentioned this incident, or a single new thread in this forum.

You won't hear the end of this until you do, or until you're banned.

--
http://www.pinciuc.com/photos/
You see, the thing is, I'm an absolutist. Well, kind of... in a way...