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Is Canon in decline ?

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You are very optimistic, but I don't think it will happen.

Plenty of other Niche players, and it will be hard for Richo to capture much market when they aren't even in the US.
 
Jack knox said:
Whether Pentax and Samsung has been able to reverse-engineer the usual logic of the market, I don't know. But anything Pentax can do, Canon can probably do better...
Click to expand...
I agree with the last part. The great unknown is what the growing behemoth Samsung will be like in a decade.
 
Peter G said:
I have an S400 from who know how many product cycles ago. Bad
enough that you can't control aperture/shutter speed, but the
camera doesn't even display shutter speed so you have no clue what
the camera is doing and when you need to increase the ISO.
Click to expand...
Well they made a design choice that for the small and subcompact bijou cameras there is no need to confuse the "average user of this camera" with "additional details". I don't agree with it either, but that appears to be their logic.

They also thought the "average A-series user" is someone who should know about PSAM and converter lenses and such so they are offering it.

I personally believe that every single digital camera should have PSAM in it. For models targetting non-advanced users they can just hide the option, and the advanced users of those cameras can enable it via a Setup option or something like that. This way everyone is happy!
Peter G said:
Has this changed after several fast product cycles? No. Is it going
to change anytime soon? No. Canon simply believes if you use a
camera like this you don't need to know shutter speed. Arrogant
SOBs.

I am a long time fan, but right now, if my cameras (both Canons)
were destroyed/stolen. There is not a Canon I would be looking at
for replacement.
Click to expand...
--
Comprehensive Photokina 2006 speculation: http://photographyetc.livejournal.com
 
Erik Magnuson wrote:
[snip]
Member said:
PEF isn't compressed either. My assertion is that for most
purposes even the choice between uncompressed DNG/PEF is worse than
compressed CR2.
Click to expand...
As I said: "Imagine Canon cameras having the option "CR2 or DNG?" Let the user decide!"

(Whether PEF is compressed on the K10D is still in dispute).
 
digital_ray_of_light said:
Well they made a design choice that for the small and subcompact
bijou cameras there is no need to confuse the "average user of this
camera" with "additional details". I don't agree with it either,
but that appears to be their logic.
Click to expand...
I don't know how they can rationalize this anymore when they have things like Aquarium mode. WTH is that? Instead of confusining the average use, they confuse everyone. With all these lame scene modes, would it hurt to slip in manual? Would it hurt to display shutter speed. That is important feedback.

I have a G6. I actually tested the shapest apertures of the lens at different focal range and used Av to stay in that range. Then When I tried Canons P mode it turns out they essentially do the same thing. P mode is great on canons unlike many other manufacturers who didn't take diffraction into account and chose two small of an aperture. And the program shift is a simple override.

All I need is P and M. P most of the time. M when I want to do something really different.

Sorry for venting. I know we essentially agree.
 
It's you, clearly.
Zarathustra said:
Telling from their last round of cameras it feels like Canon golden
years are over.
Almost any other manufacturer is offering more interesting options.
Is me or is this for real ?
Click to expand...
 
Well, when I last met up with 17 collegues at a workshop here in the Netherlands, 14 had Canon, 3 had Nikon and 1 used Fuji.
nikonians said:
Last time I checked the pro market was still in Nikons hands, even
the press you see a lot of Dxx I don't know where you are getting
your info from
Click to expand...
 
Peter G said:
digital_ray_of_light said:
Well they made a design choice that for the small and subcompact
bijou cameras there is no need to confuse the "average user of this
camera" with "additional details". I don't agree with it either,
but that appears to be their logic.
Click to expand...
I don't know how they can rationalize this anymore when they have
things like Aquarium mode. WTH is that? Instead of confusining the
average use, they confuse everyone. With all these lame scene
modes, would it hurt to slip in manual? Would it hurt to display
shutter speed. That is important feedback.
Click to expand...
Well their target audience for these cameras are people who may be afraid of "real photography". So the various scene modes become a game of marketing: "Look average user! You can take pictures of your baby, your aquarium and birthday cakes with your new special scene modes!". How many aquariums are out there and often do people go to aquariums after all? :-)

But in some cases people can take advantage of some of the scene modes to compensate for the lack of SAM or other manual controls. Which wouldn't be necessarily if they all offered PSAM :-)
Peter G said:
I have a G6. I actually tested the shapest apertures of the lens at
different focal range and used Av to stay in that range. Then When
I tried Canons P mode it turns out they essentially do the same
thing. P mode is great on canons unlike many other manufacturers
who didn't take diffraction into account and chose two small of an
aperture. And the program shift is a simple override.

All I need is P and M. P most of the time. M when I want to do
something really different.

Sorry for venting. I know we essentially agree.
Click to expand...
--
Comprehensive Photokina 2006 speculation: http://photographyetc.livejournal.com
 
See the trouble for Canon is that it has been so successful in the digital era, that it can really only go into decliine.

Even if, say Sony, does half-as-well as it wants to, and hits 10% of market, that 10% still has to come from somewhere - a problem once overall sales plateau.

I'm not sure that Canon's strategy of trying to force consumers up its model line by down-speccing lower-priced models is the right thing to do - it's certainly not the right thing to do at a time when the market is becoming more competitive.

It sounds like Canon is now implementing a business plan devised some time ago when it was untouchable. It's maybe not looking so strong now.

Dell dominated PC sales until recently, and now finds itself slipping. Once you start seeing the problems in sales it can oftern be to late to turn the ship around.

Of course the big unknown is what Canon has up it's sleeves for the next 12-months - but in 2006 they haven't been impressive at all.
 
It is likely that within 6 months some follow on Canon announcements will give them back the advantage. The D200 and Pentax K10 have shown the opposition is not dead and has something unique to bring to the table, but thats a good thing. It means Canon will have to think harder and listen a bit more, but it would be foolish to write them off.
Zarathustra said:
Telling from their last round of cameras it feels like Canon golden
years are over.
Almost any other manufacturer is offering more interesting options.
Is me or is this for real ?

--
Thus spoke Zarathustra, amen.
Click to expand...
--
Steve
Measurebating makes you short sighted.
http://www.pbase.com/steve_jacob
 
Richie S said:
See the trouble for Canon is that it has been so successful in the
digital era, that it can really only go into decliine.
Even if, say Sony, does half-as-well as it wants to, and hits 10%
of market, that 10% still has to come from somewhere - a problem
once overall sales plateau.
I'm not sure that Canon's strategy of trying to force consumers up
its model line by down-speccing lower-priced models is the right
thing to do - it's certainly not the right thing to do at a time
when the market is becoming more competitive.
It sounds like Canon is now implementing a business plan devised
some time ago when it was untouchable. It's maybe not looking so
strong now.
Dell dominated PC sales until recently, and now finds itself
slipping. Once you start seeing the problems in sales it can oftern
be to late to turn the ship around.
Of course the big unknown is what Canon has up it's sleeves for the
next 12-months - but in 2006 they haven't been impressive at all.
Click to expand...
Of course by decline there are two things to consider: a drop in market share would not be a surprise as Canon has shown that at the moment they are not willing to come up with a $500 DSLR. They seem to be more interested in preserving their sales growth and most importantly profit margins.

Just like all plans, if they understimated the market/users/competition, they may lose more than they anticipated.

Usually when the market leader falls is a combination of them slipping up a bit and the competition jumping up, so it will be interesting to see how it plays out in the future.

--
Comprehensive Photokina 2006 speculation: http://photographyetc.livejournal.com
 
They have established their place and now have the luxury to pace themselves by their roadmap regardless of what the competition does. That doesn't mean the competition can't surprise them.
Jim
 
digital_ray_of_light said:
Of course by decline there are two things to consider: a drop in
market share would not be a surprise as Canon has shown that at the
moment they are not willing to come up with a $500 DSLR. They seem
to be more interested in preserving their sales growth and most
importantly profit margins.
Click to expand...
Seem so. I assume 400D is the new entry level camera. It is more advanced and more expensive than 350D. More advanced and the same price is probably OK. But more advanced and cheaper is expected to keep the market share. At least until you come doen to $500 or so.

--
Roland
http://klotjohan.mine.nu/~roland/
 
With 2 full frame dslr and no competition around in the 24x36 market I'm not sure how they can be seen either in decline or behind.
Zarathustra said:
Telling from their last round of cameras it feels like Canon golden
years are over.
Almost any other manufacturer is offering more interesting options.
Is me or is this for real ?

--
Thus spoke Zarathustra, amen.
Click to expand...
 
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