D200 Too Much Green

I recently went on vacation a took over 1000 pictures. All were great with one criticism: In pictures of foliage the green was often too green. I got the camera 3 weeks before my trip and did not have time to experiment before the trip.

Recently I have experimented with the settings in the Shooting Menu: Optimize Image > Tone Compensation and Saturation. A recent post alerted me to the fact I had not taken Color Mode into account.

Today at 10:00 A.M. I went to my test sight and shot some more pictures.

The results represent my opinions based on the following:

1. Most of my pictures are taken on trips which do not allow a lot of time for camera adjustments.
2. I am trying to find Menu Settings suitable for a large range of scenes.

3. Since I am attempting to learn how to use the camera there is no post processing.

4. I usually want to capture the scene as it is, but I would rather have the exposure a little more vivid than bland.

Test 1:
Tone Compensation "0Normal"
Saturation "Enhanced"
Color Mode "III"
Result IMO: Unnatural Green

Test 2:
Tone Compensation "0Normal"
Saturation "Enhanced"
Color Mode "III"
Result IMO: Less Unnatural Green With Yellow Cast

Test 3:
Tone Compensation "0Normal"
Saturation "Normal"
Color Mode "II"
Result IMO: Very Close To Natural.

Test 4:
Tone Compensation "0Normal"
Saturation "Normal"
Color Mode "III"
Result IMO: Closest to natural, slightly enhanced and lighter than Test 3.
I think this is the setting I will use.

Any commnets?

You may of read that ive suffered the same as you with the greens many thanks for doing the experiment which is what im gonna do with your results weather permitting tomorrow.
Also have you noticed over saturated reds as well?

muscle750 said:

You may of read that ive suffered the same as you with the greens
many thanks for doing the experiment which is what im gonna do with
your results weather permitting tomorrow.
Also have you noticed over saturated reds as well?

Click to expand...

All the other colors in the photo's of my trip were great. However I have not tested the other colors like I have tested the green. This is my next step. It will be more difficult since a scene is not usually dominated by red and probably why I have not noticed a problem if there is one.

Please post the results of your test - especially if your findings are different from mine. Thanks.

I did a similar test and concluded that Color Mode I was the only way to go. Any options that can be set to "auto" I set to specific settings so no unpredictable results occur. In general I leave everything at its normal settings, except for +1 on sharpness because I shoot jpegs. Every other more enhanced setting appeared to make my post processing more complicated if the scene was vivid to begin with.
--
Ruby

especially if you dont want to PP, mode III is too much color usually and mode II is shot when one is going to do some PP and then convert to sRGB

Shoot mode I or Ia - try either normal or enhanced for a little more stauration

that should do you fine

Luke

Ruby Rod said:

I did a similar test and concluded that Color Mode I was the only
way to go. Any options that can be set to "auto" I set to specific
settings so no unpredictable results occur. In general I leave
everything at its normal settings, except for +1 on sharpness
because I shoot jpegs. Every other more enhanced setting appeared
to make my post processing more complicated if the scene was vivid
to begin with.
--
Ruby

Click to expand...

--
Jeffrey P. Kempster
Louisville, KY, U.S.A.
http://www.jeffkempster.com

Bill Randall said:

I recently went on vacation a took over 1000 pictures. All were
great with one criticism: In pictures of foliage the green was
often too green. I got the camera 3 weeks before my trip and did
not have time to experiment before the trip.

Click to expand...

Color mode III is designed for making green greener.

Likewise, color mode I is designed to make (caucasian?) skin tones look nicer, which probably means not too red and slightly desaturated.

Color mode II is the most neutral of the bunch, and is what you should pick for studio shots or other settings where you want neutral colours and have the easiest job in post production.

Similar question asked here: http://www.nikonians.org/dcforum/DCForumID202/19386.html

The "problem", however, with colour mode II is that it is Adobe RGB only, and depending on your workflow, you may need to do some post processing to convert to sRGB, if you e.g. intend to show this on the web. Or at least you need to make sure you're using colour profile aware applications and that it fits your desired output media. I understood that you didn't want to do any PP?

Further, when you set saturation to enhanced, you obviously get stronger colours. And if you also increase contrast, it tends to also increase the saturation even further. So mode III and enhanced saturation and contrast makes really green greens ;-) ...which may good for the kind of "grass" that we have here during the dry summer period, but probably can be a bit over the edge for "normal" green grass.

So... if you're after neutral, and your workflow deals properly with Adobe RGB, try mode II and normal contrast but enhanced saturation. If you want to shoot with one setting for all picture, and you mix people shots and landscapes, maybe mode I would be better as it would probably allow you get away with enhanced saturation even for the skin color shots.

However, the ultimate solution is to 1) shoot RAW, possibly 2) using the 4 banks on the D200 optimized for e.g. landscape, portaits, snapshots and nightscapes, or whatever you want. This would still allow you JPEGs straight out of the camera, but the luxury of finding the most optimal settings when at home, post shooting.

Personally I would never go on any trip only shooting JPEG, unless I know that I can easily go there again to re-shoot when/if needed.

-- Per.

The book says use color mode 2 if extensive processing will be done. You are saying no go for mode 2, can you explain a little more please.

It is my understanding you have to save them on the web first. I do not subscribe to any such site and therefore I cannot post the pictures here.

Looks like I will have to do another test tomorrow for Mode I. Nothing I have read to date indicated Mode I might be better.

I appreciate your info.

You have given me much to think about and I appreciate your info.

I shoot RGB and not sRGB. All test shots were printed 8x10 on matte paper.

I did try Mode 2, Enhanced saturation and it still appeared unrealistic and dark compared to: Tone of "0Normal", Saturation of "Normal" and Mode of "III".

In my original post Test 2 indicated Color Mode III. It should be color mode "II" as shown below.

Bill Randall said:

Test 2:
Tone Compensation "0Normal"
Saturation "Enhanced"
Color Mode "II"
Result IMO: Less Unnatural Green With Yellow Cast

Click to expand...

Per's very good description sums it up. Since I don't shoot aRGB, but sRGB, I can't use mode II. And I believe your mode II test was still with the saturation turned up. Just try the normal settings, but not "auto", with color mode I and you should get optimal results.
--
Ruby

You may not have read anything but trust me, anyone who knows about the 3 modes nikon has here, knows that mode III is the MOST saturated, you will like mode 1

Luke

Bill Randall said:

Looks like I will have to do another test tomorrow for Mode I.
Nothing I have read to date indicated Mode I might be better.

I appreciate your info.

Click to expand...

Jack Burton said:

The book says use color mode 2 if extensive processing will be
done. You are saying no go for mode 2, can you explain a little
more please.

Click to expand...

"mode II is shot when one is going to do some PP"

PP=post process.

Bill,

I'm glad you've now done your homework, as the biggest problem you had was using a camera of this caliber without knowing its adjustments, and characteristics.

Good shooting in the future!
--
-Steve
===================

Dodging and burning are steps to take care of mistakes God made in establishing tonal relationships. Ansel Adams

Bill:

I am assuming you shot these in JPG?

If you had used RAW you would be able to batch process the shots into what ever color space you choose. WB, Color Space, are set during the RAW conversion in PP.

It also gives you a more subtle tonal change to work with.

The negative side is RAW takes up a lot more storage on the CF and what ever device you are DL to.

There have been some good arguments on both sides as to which is best, but in this case it may have saved you a lot of re-work, and maybe some photo's.

As you can tell from my reply I am biased to the use of RAW for all my shooting. Having experienced some very similar episodes as you my self more than once, where having shot the photo's in RAW saved my butt

Bob Heath-

Thank you.

Without knowing the D200's adjustments and characteristics I would have to rely on luck more than my skill or the camera's capabilities. The D200 is a giant step up from my previous camera and I knew I would have to learn a lot more - starting with the basics.

In response to those that suggested I try Mode I for the types of shots I describe in my original post - I tried it.

Since Mode I is recommended for portrait shots, as one might expect, the resulting picture tends to smooth color contrast. In addition I found the pictures to be on the dark side.

I shot the pictures this morning in bright sunlight: pictures with the settings I like to date, and the same settings except for Mode I. Comparing the two sets of pictures there is not doubt in my mind that Mode I is not for me in regards to shots of foliage.

I do appreciate the input.