K10D!!! But, this is NOT there...

JensR · Sep 15, 2006

Crashman7 said:
Times change, earlier cars had 6 volt systems, now they have
12volt, soon they will be 24volt

Almost certainly not. Trucks have 24 now. Cars are supposed to have 42V "in 5 years" - well that's what they have been saying for the last 15 years. #yawn#

There are some issues with 42V and it is actually more likely that they will incorporate a 12V and a 42V system unless they can solve the issues. Nota bene: The situation is different for Hybrids, but as this is a camera forum, I won't discuss this here.

However, what I will say is: Yes, you need power. Does a USM lens really need more power than a normal AF lens? Maybe. Does a fast processor need more power than a slow one? Likely.

But to me it's not clear what this has to do with voltage. Running on a lower voltage means higher currents and this means thicker wires. Hm, AFAIK, this would be entirely possible, despite the high copper prices...

Crashman7 said:
This new camera has all the goodies we have been craving and it
comes with a cost, it needs more power

Hm, weather sealing does not need more power. Two control wheels don't need more power than one... But even then....

Crashman7 said:
and the only cost effective
and size effective option is to go to Lithium Ion.

...are you aware that modern sets of 4 AAs store the same or more energy than standard LiIon packs for less money and greater safety?

Crashman7 said:
If there was
another option and one that wouldn't hurt the Pentax corp, then the
guys with more letters after their name than most of us and get
paid a lot more than you and I made the best decision they knew
how. Don't go second guessing them.

You can't be that naive, can you? Did it ever occur to you that Pentax/Samsung is just a corporation trying to make money? They are not a welfare organisation. Just because proprietary batteries mean more revenue for pentax doesn't mean it is good for us.

Crashman7 said:
I do find it strange tha we have been anticipating this camera for
such a long time and the minute it turns up we are crapping on it
because it is not 110% perfect.

I'm not talking about 110%, I am angry and sad that of the three things I wanted (AA, TTL Flash, small size) it only delivers 0.5 things. If your preferences are different, fine, but don't tell me what to prefer, because I know best what I need/want.

Crashman7 said:
You can't make a camera to suit
everyone thats why we have different brands and models.

That's right. And if another manufacturer gets out a camera that has fewer drawbacks than the K10D, I'll vote with my feet.

Crashman7 said:
The world is not perfect, we are not perfect, so we make imperfect
cameras for imperfect people to try and make perfect pics.

LOL.

Crashman7 said:
I think less complaints about a camera a lot of us have not even
seen

I am only complaining about things I do not have to see to be able to judge.

Crashman7 said:
I like to see peoples pics they have taken with their PENTAX
cameras to inspire me to do better, not their complaints, otherwise
we might just start some new forums, Pentax images and Pentax
gripes.

This is a gear forum.

Crashman7 said:
More photos guys and gals, that why we bought the camera in the
first place.

Go ahead and post some, I don't mind!

Jens

--

'Well, 'Zooming with your feet' is usually a stupid thing as zoom rings are designed for hands.' (Me, 2006)
http://www.jensroesner.de/
--=! Condemning proprietary batteries since 1976 !=--

distudio · Sep 15, 2006

JensR said:
Go ahead and post some, I don't mind!

So long as it's in the "Samples and Galleries" forum, not here.

--
Rob

CharlieDIY · Sep 15, 2006

distudio said:
Crashman7 said:

Times change, earlier cars had 6 volt systems, now they have
12volt, soon they will be 24volt to keep up with thr ever
increasing demands of consumers for extras in the cars, GPS, LCD
TV, Cold Boxes, Hot Boxes, Massive Stereos, a 12v alternator can
only do so much before they have to up the voltage.

Click to expand...

LOL. You're not an engineer are you, next you'll be telling the US
and Japanese forum members that they will have to upgrade to 240VAC
at home

I have no idea about Japan's wiring, but in the U.S., it's a simple matter to run 220 (230 or 240 if you prefer) from the service entry panel. We've got three such circuits in our house, and I've got 10 in my shop. No bid deal and very, very common.

--
Charlie Self
http://www.charlieselfonline.com

JensR · Sep 15, 2006

bigtwins said:
Sorry for my stupid question, but whar are the real important
differences between the TTL and P-TTL Flash?
What are the limitations of the P-TTL Flash in comparisons of the
TTL Flash?

P-TTL can lead to the lazy eye effect. And it requires new flashes which are much more expensive than older TTL flashes. It also means that those users who have an assortment of great TTL flashes now have to invest big time to get a similar P-TTL assortment.
http://www.jr-worldwi.de/photo/ist_DS_internalflash.html

Jens

--

'Well, 'Zooming with your feet' is usually a stupid thing as zoom rings are designed for hands.' (Me, 2006)
http://www.jensroesner.de/
--=! Condemning proprietary batteries since 1976 !=--

Quietly Confident · Sep 15, 2006

JensR said:
JensR said:

Sorry for my stupid question, but whar are the real important
differences between the TTL and P-TTL Flash?
What are the limitations of the P-TTL Flash in comparisons of the
TTL Flash?

Click to expand...

P-TTL can lead to the lazy eye effect. And it requires new
flashes which are much more expensive than older TTL flashes. It
also means that those users who have an assortment of great TTL
flashes now have to invest big time to get a similar P-TTL
assortment.

Jens, I've got a couple of TTL flashguns (and one P-TTL) - what would be the result of trying to use them on a P-TTl body?, any way of working around the issue?

Also - has anyone clarified whhether the pop-up flash can be used as a controller for the FGX360 in wireless mode? - surely we're not expected to buy a second flashgun just to act as control?

JensR · Sep 15, 2006

Quietly Confident said:
Jens, I've got a couple of TTL flashguns (and one P-TTL) - what
would be the result of trying to use them on a P-TTl body?, any way
of working around the issue?

You can use them in AUTO mode. My DS has a smart Auto mode: It tells the Auto flash what setting to use. This is very handy and often sufficient in standard scenes. I do not know whether the DL and K100D and K10D offer the same "smart auto" mode. If not, you have to adjust the flash and the camera separately.
http://www.jr-worldwi.de/photo/ist_DS_internalflash.html

Quietly Confident said:
Also - has anyone clarified whhether the pop-up flash can be used
as a controller for the FGX360 in wireless mode? - surely we're
not expected to buy a second flashgun just to act as control?

That's how it worked on any Pentax dSLR except the D. AFAIK, the jury is still out on whether the K10D provides wireless P-TTL.

Cheers
Jens

--

'Well, 'Zooming with your feet' is usually a stupid thing as zoom rings are designed for hands.' (Me, 2006)
http://www.jensroesner.de/
--=! Condemning proprietary batteries since 1976 !=--

Quietly Confident · Sep 15, 2006

JensR said:
JensR said:

Jens, I've got a couple of TTL flashguns (and one P-TTL) - what
would be the result of trying to use them on a P-TTl body?, any way
of working around the issue?

Click to expand...

You can use them in AUTO mode. My DS has a smart Auto mode: It
tells the Auto flash what setting to use. This is very handy and
often sufficient in standard scenes. I do not know whether the DL
and K100D and K10D offer the same "smart auto" mode. If not, you
have to adjust the flash and the camera separately.
http://www.jr-worldwi.de/photo/ist_DS_internalflash.html

My Pentax ringflash has got a TTL Auto setting, which I currently use on the D Are you talking about another AUTO setting that isn't TTL?

There's no other AUTO setting on the ringflash - just MANUAL with a 'Full' and a '1/4' (25%) setting

, the

JensR said:
jury is still out on whether the K10D provides wireless P-TTL.

Thanks

mpixel · Sep 15, 2006

It looks like wireless flash is gone too.

Also the number of user memories is down from three to one (*ist D).

We lose the direct access to many controls on the body.

We loose the *ist D viewfinder layout and in finder AF point display.

And for me the loss of Compact Flash is a big one - it looks like the K10D will only be able to write 59 RAW files on a 1GB card. I'll need to buy about 17GB of SD cards to get back to where I am now capacity wise and about 11GB to get back to where I am with my Sandisk Extreme III cards

arnelie said:
K10D best dSLR ever (at least from Pentax), but with the following
limitations (compared to *ist-D):

Goodbye AA batteries

Goodbye TTL Flash (only P-TTL supported)

No native PC Synch

Goodbye ISO 3200

But this list is short, though...

Unsure:

Hello (long time since) PowerZoom (due to the USM connectors)?

Anyone having additional items to this/these list(s), corrections?

arne

--
GMT+1 (summertime)

jason48 · Sep 15, 2006

When I used Pocket Wizards for studio and especially sports arenas, I always had my transmitter mounted on the hotshoe. The guys I worked with did as well. I can't think of many radio transmitters that AREN'T hotshoe capable. While I didn't use the PW's on TTL compatible flashes you can't transmit TTL data through a PC port. Plus these days a hotshoe to PC adapter costs about $15.

Yes, it would have been nice, but not a dealbreaker for me.

I'm still considering the move to Pentax because Canon still hasn't come out with a moderately-priced weather sealed body - but I have to see what the AF is like.

RickS · Sep 15, 2006

Your point about running from a higher voltage is correct. This is done to improve speed, primarily AF - faster motors, etc. But, while the external adapter is 8.3v, the camera's actual operating voltage and battery are likely to be 7.2v, since a single Li-Ion cell is 3.6v (two cells). The camera will internally regulate the adapter voltage down to the proper level, a standard practice.

I'm pretty torn about this, though, as I really prefer AAs. Five of them will provide 7.5v, which may be too physically bulky for the camera body, but at least put the capability in the grip.

Rick

Crashman7 said:
Have a look at this pic of the left hand side of the camera...

You can clearly see this camera operates at 8.3volts, sorry you
can't get that from 4 AA's, any more AA's and the weight and size
is going to be an issue.

----- snip -----

Quietly Confident · Sep 15, 2006

mpixel said:
It looks like wireless flash is gone too.

Do you mean wireless flash controlled by the pop-up flash? If so, that's a real shame.

mpixel · Sep 15, 2006

Quietly Confident said:
mpixel said:

It looks like wireless flash is gone too.

Click to expand...

Do you mean wireless flash controlled by the pop-up flash? If so,
that's a real shame.

Yes. There was some confusion about this but it looks like it's gone.

--
GMT+1 (summertime)

mpixel · Sep 15, 2006

Forgot a big one: Size.

We loose the small size but we get a better grip.

mpixel said:
Also the number of user memories is down from three to one (*ist D).

We lose the direct access to many controls on the body.

We loose the *ist D viewfinder layout and in finder AF point display.

And for me the loss of Compact Flash is a big one - it looks like
the K10D will only be able to write 59 RAW files on a 1GB card.
I'll need to buy about 17GB of SD cards to get back to where I am
now capacity wise and about 11GB to get back to where I am with my
Sandisk Extreme III cards

arnelie said:

K10D best dSLR ever (at least from Pentax), but with the following
limitations (compared to *ist-D):

Goodbye AA batteries

Goodbye TTL Flash (only P-TTL supported)

No native PC Synch

Goodbye ISO 3200

But this list is short, though...

Unsure:

Hello (long time since) PowerZoom (due to the USM connectors)?

Anyone having additional items to this/these list(s), corrections?

arne

Click to expand...

--
GMT+1 (summertime)

--
GMT+1 (summertime)

JensR · Sep 15, 2006

Quietly Confident said:
Quietly Confident said:

http://www.jr-worldwi.de/photo/ist_DS_internalflash.html

Click to expand...

My Pentax ringflash has got a TTL Auto setting, which I currently
use on the D Are you talking about another AUTO setting that isn't
TTL?

Yes. Have you read through my flash page?

Cheers
Jens

--

'Well, 'Zooming with your feet' is usually a stupid thing as zoom rings are designed for hands.' (Me, 2006)
http://www.jensroesner.de/
--=! Condemning proprietary batteries since 1976 !=--

distudio · Sep 15, 2006

CharlieDIY said:
I have no idea about Japan's wiring, but in the U.S., it's a simple
matter to run 220 (230 or 240 if you prefer) from the service entry
panel. We've got three such circuits in our house, and I've got 10
in my shop. No bid deal and very, very common.

Well off topic but interesting. In Oz we generally have domestic access to three phase also, 415VAC between phases however in domestic applications it's generally only used in single phase mode 240VAC, any phase to earthed neutral. I was under the impression that virtually all domestic appliances in the US were 110-120 VAC?

--
Rob

Quietly Confident · Sep 15, 2006

mpixel said:
Quietly Confident said:

mpixel said:

It looks like wireless flash is gone too.

Click to expand...

Do you mean wireless flash controlled by the pop-up flash? If so,
that's a real shame.

Click to expand...

Yes. There was some confusion about this but it looks like it's gone.

But we gain some essential features like 'digital filters' (whatever they are, when they're at home) and the ability to apply a 'hall of mirrors' effect to images...(the mind boggles!)

What a pity they left out some Sudoko games to while away the time between shots..........just the ticket on that big screen.

Quietly Confident · Sep 15, 2006

JensR said:
JensR said:

JensR said:

http://www.jr-worldwi.de/photo/ist_DS_internalflash.html

Click to expand...

My Pentax ringflash has got a TTL Auto setting, which I currently
use on the D Are you talking about another AUTO setting that isn't
TTL?

Click to expand...

Yes. Have you read through my flash page?

I hadn't - but I just had a look and I can see it's quite a resource, thanks for pointing it out, Ill go through it carefully a bit later on.

All I know is that I put the ringflash on the D and it works well - I'd hoped for similar success with the K10. Obviously not.

Thanks again for the link to the page

dakotapix · Sep 15, 2006

distudio said:
Well off topic but interesting. In Oz we generally have domestic
access to three phase also, 415VAC between phases however in
domestic applications it's generally only used in single phase mode
240VAC, any phase to earthed neutral. I was under the impression
that virtually all domestic appliances in the US were 110-120 VAC?

The entrance/service panel for house wiring supplies +120V AC, -120V AC (60 Hz), and Neutral/Ground(Earth). Most household lighting and power circuits use one or the other of the 120 V legs, but high power appliances, such as electric stove, oven, clothes dryer, water heater, some shop tools are wired to use the full 240 V available.

Tim

distudio · Sep 15, 2006

dakotapix said:
The entrance/service panel for house wiring supplies +120V AC,
-120V AC (60 Hz), and Neutral/Ground(Earth). Most household
lighting and power circuits use one or the other of the 120 V legs,
but high power appliances, such as electric stove, oven, clothes
dryer, water heater, some shop tools are wired to use the full 240
V available.

Many thanks, I'm always pleased to be educated.

--
Rob

Thomas Williams · Sep 15, 2006

That camper inverter was probably one of the early square wave output uniits. Newer and more expensive units can be quasi sinewave output or even full sine. These can be used with most chargers - they are designed to work with laptops. Additionally, the DC input jack calling for 8.3VDC is likely to work with anything from 6.8 to 10.5 V. This has been the case with other cameras. Very few external power supplies put out fully regulated voltage.
--
Tom, http://tswill2.smugmug.com/

K10D!!! But, *this* is NOT there...

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K10D!!! But, this is NOT there...