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controversial photographer - Jill Greenberg
- Thread starter Mrpresident7
- Start date
klickitatdave
Leading Member
The first word that came to me is 'Disturbing' followed quickly by a series of words that I cannot write on this forum. I do have to admit that she has captured the essence of sadness and rage in it's purest form. However, the innate problem with her work is that in the end it injects a state of brutality into the artistic equasion both in regards to the methodology employed to capture these images and to the viewer who is forced to find some iota of merit in the resulting product. Thankfully in the end, I could not.
Chris_in_Osaka
Veteran Member
I can't believe all the posters who writing that the photographer, for taking a piece of candy (momentarily, I'm sure)from these children, is sick.
How twisted your sense of what is right and wrong is.
Forgotten AIDS children in Romania, children used for sex in Thailand, Mongolian children living in sewers and sniffing glue too kill their hunger pains, Brazilian street children murdered by vigilante death squads, children starving to death all over Africa, Iraqi kids blown to bits by American fire power.Etc,Etc,Etc,...
These things are sick.
No wonder so many western kids are fat and unable to cope with life's little setbacks when they are brought up by people unable to put things into perspective.
Result of that photo shoot? The photographer captured some real emotions and the kids quite harmlessly learned that you can't always get what you want and sometimes life just isn't fair.
A lesson most Oly users have already learned (when is that E-1 replacement coming anyway?!?!?!?!?!?!?)
--
E-1 and E-300, 30mm Sigma, 50mm, 11-22mm, 14-45mm, 14-54mm, 18-180mm, 50-200mm, 8mm fisheye, FL-36. Fujifilm f810, Sony Dsc-v3
How twisted your sense of what is right and wrong is.
Forgotten AIDS children in Romania, children used for sex in Thailand, Mongolian children living in sewers and sniffing glue too kill their hunger pains, Brazilian street children murdered by vigilante death squads, children starving to death all over Africa, Iraqi kids blown to bits by American fire power.Etc,Etc,Etc,...
These things are sick.
No wonder so many western kids are fat and unable to cope with life's little setbacks when they are brought up by people unable to put things into perspective.
Result of that photo shoot? The photographer captured some real emotions and the kids quite harmlessly learned that you can't always get what you want and sometimes life just isn't fair.
A lesson most Oly users have already learned (when is that E-1 replacement coming anyway?!?!?!?!?!?!?)
--
E-1 and E-300, 30mm Sigma, 50mm, 11-22mm, 14-45mm, 14-54mm, 18-180mm, 50-200mm, 8mm fisheye, FL-36. Fujifilm f810, Sony Dsc-v3
Economy_rice
Forum Enthusiast
Well I think these kids won't remember it when they grow up - and they will have pro photographs of their youth so its not a total loss.
Well, don't believe it then.
Not at all, and you are egotistical for suggesting it.
No one said these things aren't sick, but they are not the subject fo this thread.
Speaking for myself, my children are well adjusted and have an excellent perspective on life. Then again, I wasn't sick enough to give them a sweet and take it away again to make them cry. Perhaps you find this acceptable behaviour, just about everyone in this thread doesn't.
Not real emotion, contrived emotion from an act of cruelty to the child. You are the one that needs to get some perspective.
Well, when it does, I hope you get one and then get it taken away from you.
Simon
--
http://sclamb.zenfolio.com/
M Lammerse
Forum Pro
Agreeing totally with you.
I have 2 children, a boy of 2 and a girl of almost 4. If you are a father or mother and this is already shocking for you, get some counciling.
I don't like the art. I don't liker the photography either, but that is the nice thing of art. You like it or don't like it.
Michiel
--
Curiosity is the key to creativity - Morita Akio
http://www.fotopropaganda.com
I have 2 children, a boy of 2 and a girl of almost 4. If you are a father or mother and this is already shocking for you, get some counciling.
I don't like the art. I don't liker the photography either, but that is the nice thing of art. You like it or don't like it.
Michiel
--
Curiosity is the key to creativity - Morita Akio
http://www.fotopropaganda.com
PismoBeach
Senior Member
Ok Mr. High horse, go fix those things things.
TKphoto186192
Leading Member
I won't comment on the children theme, but;
The pics themselves are so perfectly done they look almost rendered in a 3d program. I thought the thumbnails were drawings at first.
The pics themselves are so perfectly done they look almost rendered in a 3d program. I thought the thumbnails were drawings at first.
slimandy
Forum Pro
I have a 3 year old and a 4 year old son. I would feel sick at the idea of causing them so much distress so that I could get a photograph.
It would make no difference even if I like the results, but for the record, I don't. The emotion is contrived. I can see no artistic or journalistic merit in the shots.
It would make no difference even if I like the results, but for the record, I don't. The emotion is contrived. I can see no artistic or journalistic merit in the shots.
slimandy
Forum Pro
she should know by now not to do it any more.
slimandy
Forum Pro
that's just sick and totally unnecesary
slimandy
Forum Pro
especially this bit....
Chris_in_Osaka
Veteran Member
I'm perfectly aware of who I am. I'm not referring to my positive traits but rather my faults, weaknesses, sins, vices etc.That's why I'm not acting moralistic and throwing stones at this artist, the way some people are, without asking some questions or trying to see things another way first.
People are suggesting that what the photographer did is sick and abusive.Thethings I listed are sick and abusive. So yeah, maybe not the topic, but it is an issue/concern raised by previous posters. As for topic, can you point to it? I don't believe it was "This artist is sick so let's all agree". Go check the original message, then reply to everyone who is off topic.
WOW! now who has got the ego? I know nothing about you, your kids or your child rearing practices. Maybe they are well adjusted as you say, maybe they are smoking dope behind your back. My point is: you and your kids are TRULY not the subject of this thread.
As for "just everyone else on this thread", most are snapshooters who wouldn't recognize art even if someone hit them over the head with a Mapplethorpe or a Sally Mann.
I actually enjoyed that comment!
Thanks --
E-1 and E-300, 30mm Sigma, 50mm, 11-22mm, 14-45mm, 14-54mm, 18-180mm, 50-200mm, 8mm fisheye, FL-36. Fujifilm f810, Sony Dsc-v3
Chris_in_Osaka
Veteran Member
I don't really like the photos either. They make me uncomfortable, and they're a little to photoshopped looking for my taste. But that's me.
I do like the monkey shots. Hope no PETA types (people for the ethical treatment of animals) start an angry thread over the photographers mistreatment of those monkeys.
--
E-1 and E-300, 30mm Sigma, 50mm, 11-22mm, 14-45mm, 14-54mm, 18-180mm, 50-200mm, 8mm fisheye, FL-36. Fujifilm f810, Sony Dsc-v3
Chris_in_Osaka
Veteran Member
I almost did't want to reply to this but felt I had to. I'm not on any high horse, I got a problem with all the people in this thread who are. There's a lot of holier than though type stone throwing going on. As for fixing what's wrong with the world, I'll leave it to Sally Struthers.
--
E-1 and E-300, 30mm Sigma, 50mm, 11-22mm, 14-45mm, 14-54mm, 18-180mm, 50-200mm, 8mm fisheye, FL-36. Fujifilm f810, Sony Dsc-v3
Tony Roulston
Well-known member
I agree with Snow here and I love the images and can live with the concept.
Th prevailling trend to represent only the beauty in this world means that a lot of life, the ugly stuff, is off-limits. If you read her interview she was attempting to illustrate the underlying frustration we are or should all be feeling with injustice, dis-empowerment, coruption, lying politicians etc. But thr true emotion. She could do an adult series using actors, but not get the same raw quality.
If you contrast this with the winning 2006 press photo of the year with just one of several hundred thousand children that die each year for want of a feed, I Find it interesting that image does not raise a mention. Comparing the frustration of a first world child having a lollypop taken away to one finding its mother breast dry.
And yes I am a parent and in case you wonder, I belive in spanking kids.
Anyway, fire retardent overalls on and ready for the flames.
Roulston: Love my D200!
Th prevailling trend to represent only the beauty in this world means that a lot of life, the ugly stuff, is off-limits. If you read her interview she was attempting to illustrate the underlying frustration we are or should all be feeling with injustice, dis-empowerment, coruption, lying politicians etc. But thr true emotion. She could do an adult series using actors, but not get the same raw quality.
If you contrast this with the winning 2006 press photo of the year with just one of several hundred thousand children that die each year for want of a feed, I Find it interesting that image does not raise a mention. Comparing the frustration of a first world child having a lollypop taken away to one finding its mother breast dry.
And yes I am a parent and in case you wonder, I belive in spanking kids.
Anyway, fire retardent overalls on and ready for the flames.
--We are talking about one lollipop for God's sake, calling it "SICK"
in all caps and "mental torture" is a melodramatic loss of
perspective. Believe me, far, far worse mental torture is going to
be visited upon your child by his/her peers once they hit puberty.
And god forbid you ever have another child, siblings can be far
crueller than this photographer. (And this is not to mention all
the truly sick things that are perpetrated against children every
year.)
As I'm sure you know, kids recover quickly if given the chance and
correct guidance. A distraught 3-year-old in one of these pictures
is probably a happy three-year-old 30 minutes later, probably with
their lollipop back and maybe a few extra to make up for it. No
permanent harm done provided such things aren't done on a regular
basis.
Finally the fact that these pictures raise such strong emotions in
viewers, to me, validates their importance as art. Pretty pictures
of nature are nice to look at (and I've taken plenty of them
but there is definitely something to be said about art that moves
and provokes you. I would think that later in life my children
would be amused and intrigued by their participation in such a
project. I certainly don't hold grudges about all the "terrible"
things my brother and classmates did to me decades ago. If I had a
dollar for every little injustice of my childhood I would be a rich
man!
[rant, not aimed at Yves in particular]
The unwillingness of modern parents to see their children unhappy
has led to a generation with an increasingly large gap between
their expectations for life and what they actually get. In addition
such a strong denial of unhappyness as an acceptable emotion leads
directly to problems of self-worth later in life. There is value in
teaching children that life is not always fun or fair, and helping
them learn to deal with it rather than protect them from it. Making
a child unhappy does not always equate making them feel unloved.
[ rant]
Roulston: Love my D200!
Dirk Vermeirre
Forum Pro
Hi Mrpresident,
There is sensation, that's just all in my opinion. If this is called fine art well then I could produce fine art day and night. Coming up with something controversial and fiddling a bit in Photoshop, I could invent new series each day again and again. For me it just looks horrible, disturbing and I couldn't imagine ever hanging such a thing on a wall. I don't care that their lollipop was taken away, there are much worse things going on in this world, millions of children are living on the streets for example, but it represents just nothing. One of my preferred photographers is also on the artist list on that gallery and trying to bring such a depht, vision and such strong enriching images would take many years (if we could reach that level):
http://www.paulkopeikingallery.com/artists/schenck/
That is true art for me. It's something else then the actual fashion in some fine art to make a kind of catalogue and repete just one scene with some slight variations. Where is the deeper meaning or rich world of photographs from the under side of airplanes (also featured by one of the artists by Paul Kopeiking)? It's just another catalogue for me (but this time not a controversial one).
Searching for the controversial is something in my opinion (not always in the past but in the actual world were we have seen almost everything) that is searched for to try to get attention and come out of the pack of millions of photographers.
The series from the crying children is so 'childish' in my opinion that I even want to start to discuss the ethics about crying, lollipops etc., I have better things to do.
With very kind regards,
Dirk
'Look and think before opening the shutter. The heart and
mind are the true lens of the camera. '
Yousuf Karsh
http://www.dievee.be
Thibault D
Forum Enthusiast
Now, that's over-reacting and political correctness at its highest...
I did some photo shoots when I was a kid, and I was naked in most of them. Back then, noone gave a second thought about it. And it was quite natural for me too, I wore my first cloths when I was two years old, and my parents let me play naked at the beach long afterwards. The extra freedom allowed me to learn walking and running a few months earlier than most babies. Again, back then, it was a total non-issue! And it should be. It's very natural for a baby or young kid to be naked! Most children become self-conscious only at the pre-puberty...
You can't build the whole life of children around the fear of pedophiles...
Thibault D
Forum Enthusiast
Only in the USA and Canada... In many countries, a slight slap is considered a useful educationnal tool, if only to be used wisely and rarely. Honestly, there are some kids that are so badly educated that they should get a slap!
I mean, in the name of not hurting children, some parents have altogether given up on educating their kids at all. Like, when you take the train or plane and they have their children running around yelling, destroying stuff or kicking passengers and yet they remain completely passive. And then, they get surprised when they learn their grown up kids are going to jail because noone bothered to educate them into basic stuff like having limits or respecting others...
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