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Ball head advice

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luga00 said:
yes, the BH-55 is one of the best. You won't regret the purchase
Click to expand...
--

'When trying to make art, don't make the camera do all the work.' from CBS Videographer Darryl Barton at NPPA boot camp.

Amen!

The controls are large enough to allow you to set the drag with a little finesse and when you lock it down, you can throw the entire show over your shoulder with the 70-200VR hanging on the camera without fear of it lossening up while you're hikeing.

ray...........
 
I am a bit confused regarding your tripod and ballhead recommendations. Ok, you warmly recommnend Gitzo this, Kirk that, Markins this and Burzynski that. Ok. Probably nice stuff. It's easy to recommend another version of a Jaguar, or perhaps you should try a Bentley this time? These are ballheads in the $3-4-500 ballpark!

The guy asking said he had a Manfrotto aluminum tripod. That should give you a clue.

I just bought a Manfrotto 055prob after having managed with a Daivwa geared column tripod I bought in 1975 for ~$100. I used this tripod even with a 300mm + 2x TC with reasonable success. Ok, not an ideal solution, but not that much a problem either.

The reason I had to buy the M055prob was because I also bought a Manfroto 303plus panohead which alone weighs over 2kgs, so with a D200 + 10.5mm it just became too much.

Is a Gitzo or Markins head really THAT much better? What about simply recommending a decent Bogen/Manfrotto head? Sturdy, reasonably priced and probably very much up to the task!

Please tell me if I'm wrong ;-) I'd really like to know!

--
IVer Erling Årva
Nikonian
Good equipment isn't everything - good pictures are!I
 
Iver Erling Årva said:
Is a Gitzo or Markins head really THAT much better? What about
simply recommending a decent Bogen/Manfrotto head? Sturdy,
reasonably priced and probably very much up to the task!

Please tell me if I'm wrong ;-) I'd really like to know!

--
IVer Erling Årva
Click to expand...
I don't think you're wrong. For all but large lenses a Manfrotto 488 would do nicely at a fraction of the price of the top brands. Avoid the Slik Pro 800 as the Manfrotto 488 is much better.

Leif
 
I think the Bogen is a nice ballhead, I checked one out a few years back. I just don't know how durable (how they wear with time) they are as they were relatively new when I looked. I ended up getting a Linhof which I just outfitted with Arca release and plates.

The part I don't understand is about the person's choice of aluminum.
 
Has a much higher weight capacity and costs considerably less!

--
http://www.d2creative.smugmug.com
Nikon D70 ~ 70-200mm VR ~ 50mm 1.8 ~ Tokina 12-24 ~ Tamron 90 ~ 35mm f2
 
I guess I should have made this clear. I have used the aluminum tripod (Manfrotto) for years combined with a gitzo head. I tend to shoot alot off my tripod. The set up I have is "just" ok, meaning I can get by on calm days, however, any amount of wind or when I put the big glass on (70-200mm or my sigma 50-500mm) the camera creeps or the wind causes vibration. All of which rears its ugly head in my photos.

The Ballhead I have purchased will eventually be paired with a Gitzo 1325 tripod. I only wish I had read Thoms article 5 years ago... Shame on you Thom...that Tripod 101 should be stickied at the top of this forum...

--
http://iluminatae.zenfolio.com/
 
Iver Erling Årva said:
I am a bit confused regarding your tripod and ballhead
recommendations. Ok, you warmly recommnend Gitzo this, Kirk that,
Markins this and Burzynski that. Ok. Probably nice stuff. It's easy
to recommend another version of a Jaguar, or perhaps you should try
a Bentley this time? These are ballheads in the $3-4-500 ballpark!

The guy asking said he had a Manfrotto aluminum tripod. That should
give you a clue.

I just bought a Manfrotto 055prob after having managed with a
Daivwa geared column tripod I bought in 1975 for ~$100. I used
this tripod even with a 300mm + 2x TC with reasonable success. Ok,
not an ideal solution, but not that much a problem either.

The reason I had to buy the M055prob was because I also bought a
Manfroto 303plus panohead which alone weighs over 2kgs, so with a
D200 + 10.5mm it just became too much.

Is a Gitzo or Markins head really THAT much better? What about
simply recommending a decent Bogen/Manfrotto head? Sturdy,
reasonably priced and probably very much up to the task!

Please tell me if I'm wrong ;-) I'd really like to know!

--
IVer Erling Årva
Nikonian
Good equipment isn't everything - good pictures are!I
Click to expand...
I don't know if you are wrong, but in plain fact there is a reason that better, more expensive gear exists and why people recommend it.

Perhaps you don't need what this gear offers, but this IS the Nikon PRO forum, which should imply a certain level of sophistication.

If you have a D1/D2/D100/D200 then you are likely serious about digital photography. Which means you've spent a serious amount of money on your computer, on lenses and on other accessories. For some reason there seems to be an idea that cheap tripods are just fine. Well they aren't.

Don't take my word for it. Go buy a cheap tripod and a cheap head and use them for a while and see if you still want to use them when you see the results.

The reason people recommend the better gear is because it IS worth the money. Why in the world would someone invest thousands and thousands of dollars on camera, lenses, flash, computers, etc and then cheap out on support and jeopardize the results at the most fundamental level?

A cheap tripod might be fine indoors at a birthday party with a wide angle lens or with a point and shoot camera on top, but if you want to go outdoors and put a decent camera with a long lens on top, you really do NEED better than that.

You certainly must know lots of people who have a closet full of cheap (unused) tripods as I do.

To extend your car analogy, it would be like buying a Jaguar and then putting it on cheap wheels that are too small and too thin. The car won't be ABLE to perform at it's best if you make that compromise.

HTH

--
Cheers,
Joe
 
Well, the Manfrotto magnesium ball heads can also be several hundred $s and have weight capacities up to 16kgs or more. That doesn't exactly sound like an indoor birthday party tripod head to me...

They market their brand as pro equipment, and looking through their catalog everything I see indicates that that is what Manfrotto is, even though they also may offer alternatives for the amaterur or party photographer. They use the same materials as Gitzo, magnesium, carbon fibre etc. but also aluminum and steel to make more affordable alternatives. Take the 055 tripod for instance, with models made of steel (heavier, but very sturdy), or carbonfibre (lighter, but much more expensive).

My point was simply that there are good, less expensive alternatives that can get the job done very well. Even a pro doesn't necessarily have to buy the most expensive there is. That can even be a waste. And a pro is in it for the money!
--
IVer Erling Årva
Nikonian
Good equipment isn't everything - good pictures are!
 
Iver Erling Årva said:
My point was simply that there are good, less expensive
alternatives that can get the job done very well. Even a pro
doesn't necessarily have to buy the most expensive there is. That
can even be a waste. And a pro is in it for the money!
Click to expand...
Of course, Iver, but that wasn't really what you asked.

You asked why do people recommend certain brands of gear. The reason is very simple -- they, like me, have owned other, often less expensive gear, upgraded and found out why a $3-4-500 ballhead is worth the cost. We've already been down that road and are sharing our experience. If you don't want to believe the advice, don't! But you asked for it.

You asked if it was "THAT much better" and I would say, generally speaking, "you get what you pay for."

Sure you can "get by" with a cheaper ballhead that droops eery time you try to secure it, but if you are a pro, then time is money and gear that is frustrating to work with is a waste of both. JMO of course! :-)

--
Cheers,
Joe
 
I have a Bogen 3001 with RC2 head (~$150US). It is really poor. Droops, and the locking knob requires more and more turning to make it lock. When you are trying to frame something, you have to anticipate a 5-10 degree droop after you let go. Very difficult to get anything framed correctly, and panoramas? Stability in light wind with D2x + 70-200 VR on it? Fuhgettaboutit.

I have a Gitzo 1325 with 1321 leveling base and RRS BH-55 (~$1400US with plates). Once I'd used it for a couple shoots, I never picked up the Bogen again. When you lock it, it only droops maybe a degree or two. Lovely integrated bubble levels, degree-marked smooth rotation for panos, main knob tension adjuster, and separate knob for rotation lock. It is so much better than the Bogen that even a caveman could tell the difference.

A top-end tripod is essential if you want to get the results you expect from top-end camera and lenses.

--
Dana Paul Franz
[email protected]
http://dfranz.smugmug.com
'That's what Jagulars always do,' said Pooh,
much interested. 'They call 'Help! Help!'
and then when you look up, they drop on you.'
 
Not hard to see, even without touching, that one of these is likely to be a noticeably better tool...





--
Dana Paul Franz
[email protected]
http://dfranz.smugmug.com
'That's what Jagulars always do,' said Pooh,
much interested. 'They call 'Help! Help!'
and then when you look up, they drop on you.'
 
Joe Mondello said:
Iver Erling Årva said:
I am a bit confused regarding your tripod and ballhead
recommendations. Ok, you warmly recommnend Gitzo this, Kirk that,
Markins this and Burzynski that. Ok. Probably nice stuff. It's easy
to recommend another version of a Jaguar, or perhaps you should try
a Bentley this time? These are ballheads in the $3-4-500 ballpark!

The guy asking said he had a Manfrotto aluminum tripod. That should
give you a clue.

I just bought a Manfrotto 055prob after having managed with a
Daivwa geared column tripod I bought in 1975 for ~$100. I used
this tripod even with a 300mm + 2x TC with reasonable success. Ok,
not an ideal solution, but not that much a problem either.

The reason I had to buy the M055prob was because I also bought a
Manfroto 303plus panohead which alone weighs over 2kgs, so with a
D200 + 10.5mm it just became too much.

Is a Gitzo or Markins head really THAT much better? What about
simply recommending a decent Bogen/Manfrotto head? Sturdy,
reasonably priced and probably very much up to the task!

Please tell me if I'm wrong ;-) I'd really like to know!

--
IVer Erling Årva
Nikonian
Good equipment isn't everything - good pictures are!I
Click to expand...
I don't know if you are wrong, but in plain fact there is a reason
that better, more expensive gear exists and why people recommend it.

Perhaps you don't need what this gear offers, but this IS the Nikon
PRO forum, which should imply a certain level of sophistication.

If you have a D1/D2/D100/D200 then you are likely serious about
digital photography. Which means you've spent a serious amount of
money on your computer, on lenses and on other accessories. For
some reason there seems to be an idea that cheap tripods are just
fine. Well they aren't.

Don't take my word for it. Go buy a cheap tripod and a cheap head
and use them for a while and see if you still want to use them when
you see the results.

The reason people recommend the better gear is because it IS worth
the money. Why in the world would someone invest thousands and
thousands of dollars on camera, lenses, flash, computers, etc and
then cheap out on support and jeopardize the results at the most
fundamental level?

A cheap tripod might be fine indoors at a birthday party with a
wide angle lens or with a point and shoot camera on top, but if you
want to go outdoors and put a decent camera with a long lens on
top, you really do NEED better than that.

You certainly must know lots of people who have a closet full of
cheap (unused) tripods as I do.

To extend your car analogy, it would be like buying a Jaguar and
then putting it on cheap wheels that are too small and too thin.
The car won't be ABLE to perform at it's best if you make that
compromise.

HTH

--
Cheers,
Joe
Click to expand...
There are various reasons why some of the higher end stuff is so expensive. Many Gitzo tripods cost a fortune because they are made of carbon fibre, which saves weight. CF is expensive to buy, and expensive and difficult to machine. Many of the expensive ball heads cost a fortune because they are precision machined to reduce weight and to provide a stable platform for lenses up to 500mm F4 and above. They also have features such as captive knobs and Arca Swiss QR platforms which add cost.

I have used a modestly priced Uniloc 1600 tripod for almost 10 years and have no problems with vibration using lenses up to 200mm for macro work. I am told it can handle a 500mm F4, though I doubt that claim. The manufacturer also questions that claim. The Slik Pro 800 ball head is plenty stable for a 200mm lens, though it is not smooth, and the QR platform is awful. A Markins M10 is lighter, smaller, better machined, and smoother. But at a huge price increase.

I have no doubt that someone who walks some distance with equipment and uses large lenses does need the stability and light weight of top end equipment. But I see many people using light gear on expensive pro-grade supports.

To use your analogy, why buy a Formula 1 racing car when you only intend to drive on the public roads?
 
Slough said:
To use your analogy, why buy a Formula 1 racing car when you only
intend to drive on the public roads?
Click to expand...
Actually the car analogy started with Iver.

The answer to your question (above) is you wouldn't.

But you said yourself that you don't really like the way the cheaper gear works. Fine. It's a trade-off, it always is. You pays yer money and you takes yer choice!

If you like the way any piece of gear works at any price then recommend it. That's all I did. In my experience, I haven't found cheaper gear that works for me -- and I've tried over and over and over again.

I need it to be light and sturdy -- and reasonably priced. For me that meant a Gitzo 1298 ($375) with an Acratech V2 Ballhead ($279 on special). This combo works for me. Some would find the Gitzo 1298 too flimsy. I had the 1197 first and it was too flimsy, the 1298 works for me. The Acratech head is a bargain IMO -- light and sturdy.

I also have a much bigger and heavier video tripod which I can use if need be and a closet full of cheapie tripods that just sit and collect dust most of the time.

All I said was that you get what you pay for!

Have you read Thom Hogan's piece on tripods? That was me! (well not me in particular, but you get the idea!) ;-)

--
Cheers,
Joe
 
I really don't get what you're trying to prove with these photos! You can't just take any little Manfrotto head and compare with any other head.

You should at least try to compare similar products. Manfrotto has like 20 different ball heads. The one you compare with, the 484 is called Mini Ball Head. That should give an idea.

Why not make a honest comparison and compare with e.g. one of the large hydrostatic ball heads which is dimensioned for loads up towards 20kgs? I believe that would be much more interresting!
--
IVer Erling Årva
Nikonian
Good equipment isn't everything - good pictures are!
 
I only own two tripods. These are two I compared. I said nothing about Bogen's other offerings, only that this particular one was exceedingly cr@ppy. Maybe they have other stuff that's better. I certainly never claimed they don't. I simply compared two tripods.
--
Dana Paul Franz
[email protected]
http://dfranz.smugmug.com
'That's what Jagulars always do,' said Pooh,
much interested. 'They call 'Help! Help!'
and then when you look up, they drop on you.'
 
For the guys in this thread that mentioned the panning on the Markins heads is awful, try this:

change the clamp for a RRS PCL-1 panning clamp. That's what I've ordered with my Markins M10. It hasn't arrived yet but I can post feedback if anyone's interested?

Cheers
-N

-------------------------------------------
I reserve the right to an opinion
http://www.nasirhamid.com
 
Joe Mondello said:
Slough said:
To use your analogy, why buy a Formula 1 racing car when you only
intend to drive on the public roads?
Click to expand...
Actually the car analogy started with Iver.

The answer to your question (above) is you wouldn't.

But you said yourself that you don't really like the way the
cheaper gear works. Fine. It's a trade-off, it always is. You pays
yer money and you takes yer choice!

If you like the way any piece of gear works at any price then
recommend it. That's all I did. In my experience, I haven't found
cheaper gear that works for me -- and I've tried over and over
and over again.

I need it to be light and sturdy -- and reasonably priced. For me
that meant a Gitzo 1298 ($375) with an Acratech V2 Ballhead ($279
on special). This combo works for me. Some would find the Gitzo
1298 too flimsy. I had the 1197 first and it was too flimsy, the
1298 works for me. The Acratech head is a bargain IMO -- light and
sturdy.

I also have a much bigger and heavier video tripod which I can use
if need be and a closet full of cheapie tripods that just sit and
collect dust most of the time.

All I said was that you get what you pay for!

Have you read Thom Hogan's piece on tripods? That was me! (well not
me in particular, but you get the idea!) ;-)

--
Cheers,
Joe
Click to expand...
Sorry for attributing someone else's analogy to you.

The Slik Pro 800 was a poor example. I mentioned it to warn people away from it. There are similarly priced heads that are very good. The Manfrotto 488 is well made and fine if using modest gear e.g. body + 300mm F4 lens. In fact the pan lock is more ergonomic than the Markins pan lock which is not so good. The FLM heads get good feedback and are not priced as high as Markins et al. The Chinese Benro heads are cheap, but get mediocre feedback. The original Acratech ball head got mixed reviews with some complaining about drift when locking down, and painful to use knobs.

For light and sturdy you probably have little choice i.e. Gitzo + high grade head.

Leif
 
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