D200 - image size & noise?

spt_gb · Sep 6, 2006

called pixel binning. Combine together a number of pixels to form a smaller image and the noise from each original pixel is averaged in the output pixels. A number of P&S cameras use this method at high ISO.

There are two downsides. Firstly you can't do this in RAW format (though you can do something similar in photoshop once you have converted the RAW). Secondly you lose resolution and detail. Depending on your intended use it may or may not be a problem.

Where the resolution drop is going to be the biggest issue is when you can't frame the shot tightly (if you're at the extreme end of your zoom range or with a fast moving scene for example), in which case you're going to have rather less than 5 M pixels left after cropping.

photoforfun · Sep 6, 2006

cocovanna said:
AFAIK the RAW data (settings part excluded) is completed unaffected of the "optimize image" setting ?Kim

First of all a question, what is AFAIK?

Secondly, if you shoot RAW with image optimalisation like "vivid" than you see in the RAW exif file in nikon editor "sharpness: medium", if you shoot "sharpness high" in the in-camera image optimalisation, than you see in the RAW exif file in nikon editor: "sharpness-high". And than you get very noisy images if taken @high iso or slightly underexposed. If you set your in-camera image optimalisation on "normal" than you see in the RAW file info (in nikon editor) "sharpness: normal". Sharpening in PP has less influence on the noise level than in-camera sharpening.

BTW, Nikon editor is part of Nikon view 6.2.7 which you can download for free from the Nikon website.

--
Kindest regards to everybody, whatever camera you own.
Stany Buyle
Photography is a marvellous hobby which I enjoy, not to compete...
http://www.fotografie.fr/

photoforfun · Sep 6, 2006

spt_gb said:
There are two downsides. Firstly you can't do this in RAW format (though you can do something similar in photoshop once you have converted the RAW). Secondly you lose resolution and detail. Depending on your intended use it may or may not be a problem.

Correction: You can't do this in Nikon RAW files (yet) but Kodak DSLR had this option available in his 14n.(different RAW file formats)
And it is not the same technique as pixel binning.
--
Kindest regards to everybody, whatever camera you own.
Stany Buyle
Photography is a marvellous hobby which I enjoy, not to compete...
http://www.fotografie.fr/

spt_gb · Sep 6, 2006

photoforfun said:
photoforfun said:

There are two downsides. Firstly you can't do this in RAW format (though you can do something similar in photoshop once you have converted the RAW). Secondly you lose resolution and detail. Depending on your intended use it may or may not be a problem.

Click to expand...

Correction: You can't do this in Nikon RAW files (yet) but Kodak
DSLR had this option available in his 14n.(different RAW file
formats)

Given that the 14n went down like a lead ballon, no-one else has bothered to do this and we're talking about the D200 I'd argue the point.

photoforfun said:
And it is not the same technique as pixel binning.

Just because you're not directly combining data from the sensor doesn't mean that it's not the same thing. Bayer masks get in the way of the classic process that you're thinking of, but it's the same thing near enough.

Gerald Poirier · Sep 6, 2006

Is this - Pixel binning - what takes place in the D200 when you opt for a lower size jpeg image, or just an in-camera conversion from RAW that drops about half the pixels ? (Of course you keep all the pixels in the RAW version if you save RAW+Jpeg)

Gerald

PeaceOut · Sep 6, 2006

photoforfun said:
photoforfun said:

AFAIK the RAW data (settings part excluded) is completed unaffected of the "optimize image" setting ?Kim

Click to expand...

First of all a question, what is AFAIK?
Secondly, if you shoot RAW with image optimalisation like "vivid"
than you see in the RAW exif file in nikon editor "sharpness:
medium", if you shoot "sharpness high" in the in-camera image
optimalisation, than you see in the RAW exif file in nikon editor:
"sharpness-high". And than you get very noisy images if taken @high
iso or slightly underexposed. If you set your in-camera image
optimalisation on "normal" than you see in the RAW file info (in
nikon editor) "sharpness: normal". Sharpening in PP has less
influence on the noise level than in-camera sharpening.
BTW, Nikon editor is part of Nikon view 6.2.7 which you can
download for free from the Nikon website.

--
Kindest regards to everybody, whatever camera you own.
Stany Buyle
Photography is a marvellous hobby which I enjoy, not to compete...
http://www.fotografie.fr/

This is just my understanding...correct me if i'm wrong.

I always thought those configurations (i.e. vivid, more vivid) were suppose to effect only the JPG version and not the RAW. So if this stands true than those configurations shouldn't effect the noise level on the RAW file but just on the JPG.

An exception to this is if you open the RAW file with Nikon Capture or NX, it'll take those configuartions and set them to ON as default when you open up your image...which you can turn off if you wish by unchecking them.

--
~~PeaceOut~~

cocovanna · Sep 6, 2006

photoforfun said:
First of all a question, what is AFAIK?

As Far As I Know

photoforfun said:
Secondly, if you shoot RAW with image optimalisation like "vivid"
than you see in the RAW exif file in nikon editor "sharpness:
medium", if you shoot "sharpness high" in the in-camera image
optimalisation, than you see in the RAW exif file in nikon editor:
"sharpness-high". And than you get very noisy images if taken @high
iso or slightly underexposed. If you set your in-camera image
optimalisation on "normal" than you see in the RAW file info (in
nikon editor) "sharpness: normal". Sharpening in PP has less
influence on the noise level than in-camera sharpening.

But you can change all these settings in PP ... including undoing them totally (or applying them as in-camera if not set when taking the picture)

Kim

photoforfun · Sep 6, 2006

cocovanna said:
Kim wrote:

But you can change all these settings in PP ... including undoing them totally (or applying them as in-camera if not set when taking the picture)

I know, but I have a very strong impression that you keep (much)more noise than if you start without these in-camera optimalisation.
Just my thoughts...
--
Kindest regards to everybody, whatever camera you own.
Stany Buyle
Photography is a marvellous hobby which I enjoy, not to compete...
http://www.fotografie.fr/

FrankG · Sep 6, 2006

John Okner said:
you can get a better picture with low iso and tripod

Assuming you remembered to bring one (and some places you might not be allowed to use a tripod)!

JohnBald · Sep 6, 2006

It'd be interesting to see how the D80 behaves with regard to Small and Medium size performance.

The D200 & D80 sensors are reportedly similar if not the same, so logically . . .

But "logically" isn't always reliable. There's nothing like hands-on testing and real images

Stany, thank you for your contribution.

cocovanna · Sep 6, 2006

photoforfun said:
photoforfun said:

Kim wrote:

Click to expand...

But you can change all these settings in PP ... including undoing them totally (or applying them as in-camera if not set when taking the picture)

photoforfun said:
I know, but I have a very strong impression that you keep
(much)more noise than if you start without these in-camera
optimalisation.
Just my thoughts...

I doubt it. If you process your raw files with Nikon Capture, the optimizations are done in the computer, not the camera. If you use ACR the camera setting for optimizing is ignored.

Kim

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D200 - image size & noise?

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